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Old 06-19-2013, 08:09 AM   #511
kikinovak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis4526 View Post
It's not just some microseconds, but more like several seconds.
One of my neighbours has a Kawasaki Ninja sports motorcycle. Or more precisely, parts of his Kawasaki Ninja sports motorcycle are regularly scattered over the pavement on the front porch of the village's church. Since I've moved here, he patiently explains to me how he will replace various pieces in the engine to have better performance, and he spends countless hours (days, weeks, months, his life in fact) to fiddle with the thing. I rarely see him drive it actually, though.

Me, I have a "boring" BMW with less spectacular performance than my neighbour's bike. I drive about 20.000 kilometers per year, without giving it much thought.

http://www.kikinovak.net/images/k75.jpg

Funny how you Systemd guys remind me of my neighbor. Wasting months to save a few seconds. We do live in two different worlds.
 
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:07 PM   #512
GazL
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So what you're basically saying is that systemd is the Micron exhaust of init systems?
I can relate to that.
 
Old 06-19-2013, 02:48 PM   #513
ReaperX7
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Systemd compares more to Split Fire Spark Plugs. While they claim to offer more power to the engine and better performance, they really don't and can cause engine problems such as engine block overheating, compression chamber damage, and damage to the pistons.

Good ol' regular spark plugs recommended by the manufacturer always work, and work well.

Yes, my UNIX ways are old and fogy, but if it's not broken, why bother trying to fix it?

Last edited by ReaperX7; 06-19-2013 at 02:50 PM.
 
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:00 AM   #514
eloi
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The origin of the problem:

Now you feel the wind in you face, one hand in your ride and the other in you mobile phone... But, hey, don't accept candies from strange people, that could be the "red pill"! You'll pass in a second from feel like this:

http://t4.thpservices.com/fotos/thum...-608r-2351.jpg

To feel like this:

http://www.cuencarural.com/img/notas/img-6660.jpg


Freedom.


The Cloud and Mobile Phones, the final step. Gmail will complain if you empty the Trash. Communism? Capitalism? Humans end reconstructing their beloved Big Brother (or Nanny State) in all environments. And blame him.



In case I don't see ya, good afternoon, good evening, and good night!

Last edited by eloi; 06-20-2013 at 07:08 AM.
 
Old 06-21-2013, 01:12 AM   #515
unSpawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eloi View Post
Now you feel the wind in you face
Please let's try keep up the appearance this thread hasn't meandered on and off topic for the past n pages,
TIA.
 
Old 06-21-2013, 09:11 AM   #516
zakame
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unSpawn: It is probably better to lock the thread. It has been marked as solved for far longer than the discussion is really worth, now. Maybe until somebody actually makes a Slackware with a working systemd (instead of pointless banter among trolls) would there be a point in continuing this thread.
 
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:07 PM   #517
volkerdi
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Debating systemd... the Slackware version of Godwin's Law.
 
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:40 PM   #518
JWJones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zakame View Post
unSpawn: It is probably better to lock the thread. It has been marked as solved for far longer than the discussion is really worth, now. Maybe until somebody actually makes a Slackware with a working systemd (instead of pointless banter among trolls) would there be a point in continuing this thread.
As the original poster, I would have to agree. There probably isn't much more to be said, here. By all means, unSpawn, close 'er down, this topic has been played out, for now.
 
Old 06-21-2013, 02:47 PM   #519
JWJones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkerdi View Post
Debating systemd... the Slackware version of Godwin's Law.
Yup. I'm pretty sure Hitler boots with systemd, running Justin Bieber Linux. Or perhaps he uses Windows ME?
 
Old 06-21-2013, 04:34 PM   #520
qweasd
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I agree about closing. Did you people see Martin Grlin's rant, of /.'s fame? While being mostly unencumbered with rational thought, it has one good advice:
Quote:
Even if people dislike some specific software or are a great supporter of another software there is no reason to insult the people or the products.
He went too far with products, but he's got one thing right: slinging mud at anyone who directly contributes to the free software development (even Poettering!) is pretty much unacceptable, and this thread seems to be a fertile ground for that. So what if the product sucks. It's free, so it will either improve to the point of useful, or fade away without hurting anyone but the early adopters. Poettering could do much worse by writing competent code for Microsoft.

http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...free-software/
http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/06...-free-software
 
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Old 06-21-2013, 05:08 PM   #521
Alien Bob
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So let me add one more observation, before this thread gets locked. I rather see Poettering write competent code for Microsoft Windows than forcing bad code (which he writes for the betterment of his employer Redhat) upon all other Linux distros and forcing the non-Linux UNIXes out of the game at the same time.

I have no issues with Microsoft Windows, and that is because I have a choice: if I want to use something else which is not MS Windows, then I can make that choice freely. If there is a job where MS Windows does the job better than Linux or BSD, then I will use MS Windows. I am not a zealot. I am not a fanboi. I am a pragmatist with a decent set of moral values.

Fanboi-ism has nothing to do with faulting the way Poettering and Sievers write/abandon/write sloppy code, force their pre-alpha code onto mature and otherwise stable distros, and flame everyone who does not agree with the way they are destroying the Linux ecosystem.

Their next attempt at killing functionality for non-systemd users: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...ne/011521.html . Forget about using cgroups and LXC containers if your distro does not adopt systemd. And while he tries to "blame, haha" Tejun Heo for this coup, he conveniently forgets to tell us that Tejun is yet another Redhat employee. The trend is obvious.

And while I respect Martin Grlin for the programmer and person that he is, and read his blog posts with a smile, I do not think he is right in his latest rant. If you write code which is free, that does not make you invulnerable to criticism and untouchable. True, if you write bad code and let the FLOSS community processes go their natural ways, then the bad code will not get widespread. But if commercial interests come into play (like Poettering getting paid by Redhat to do what he does) the free software movement is side-tracked and bad code can force its way into the wider audience.

I really really can not understand why people do not see that systemd is a cancer which is eating away at the core of the free software movement. I have regarded Ubuntu with scepticism for a long time, but I respect them for not bending to the will of Redhat. Of course, Canonical is yet another faction with opposite commercial goals, so I guess it figures. Me, I would rather accept a stripped down distro without udev, udisks, Consolekit, PolicyKit, and other deprecated software than be forced to add systemd. It would be a worthwhile effort to try and find out what useability issues such a reversion would (or would not!) cause.

Eric
 
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:14 PM   #522
elvis4526
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You know what ? I'm fucking done with this thread filled with idiots.
Lennart was NOT PAID when he started working on systemd.
If you would have bothered to do a little bit of research, you would see that the first time that Lennart proposed systemd to be the default init system in fedora (which is mainly sponsorised by Red Hat btw), THE PROPOSITION GOT REFUSED.
So yeah, Red Hat is paying lennart to work on systemd, and when he tries to include the first time in Fedora, it get REJECTED.

Do you even understand how much non-sense you are saying ?

Anyway I'm done with answering any of your unfounded argument filled with personal hate.
I'm glad too that I deleted and stopped all my systemd-porting related work to slackware since it would be a waste of time and effort.
Just lock this thread.
 
Old 06-21-2013, 06:25 PM   #523
T3slider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis4526 View Post
You know what ? I'm fucking done with this thread filled with idiots.
Lennart was NOT PAID when he started working on systemd.
If you would have bothered to do a little bit of research, you would see that the first time that Lennart proposed systemd to be the default init system in fedora (which is mainly sponsorised by Red Hat btw), THE PROPOSITION GOT REFUSED.
So yeah, Red Hat is paying lennart to work on systemd, and when he tries to include the first time in Fedora, it get REJECTED.

Do you even understand how much non-sense you are saying ?

Anyway I'm done with answering any of your unfounded argument filled with personal hate.
I'm glad too that I deleted and stopped all my systemd-porting related work to slackware since it would be a waste of time and effort.
Just lock this thread.
To be fair, if you read the linked post by Alien Bob it is rather hostile...absorbing udev was strike one, absorbing cgroup functionality is strike two. That is now two major pieces of existing functionality that will be removed for anyone not using systemd. udev may be salvageable as a fork, but I cannot see how cgroups can be usable without systemd when there is now exclusive cooperation with systemd APIs in the kernel re: cgroups. There very well may not be a Red Hat conspiracy (and I won't comment on that) but there is no doubt that systemd is increasingly becoming the only option and there is definitely an effort, either intentionally or due to carelessness, to force it.
 
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:34 PM   #524
volkerdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis4526 View Post
Lennart was NOT PAID when he started working on systemd.
I don't care if he was paid or not.
I don't care what init system other distributions use.
I do care when other core components are tied to it, causing turmoil for anyone trying to continue to use init systems that have worked well for a long time.

If you reappear elsewhere here in the Slackware forum, I sincerely hope you'll tone it down a little.
 
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:42 PM   #525
jtsn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob View Post
So let me add one more observation, before this thread gets locked. I rather see Poettering write competent code for Microsoft Windows than forcing bad code (which he writes for the betterment of his employer Redhat) upon all other Linux distros and forcing the non-Linux UNIXes out of the game at the same time.
Maybe one day he will write code for Microsoft, after his mission is accomplished. Just look what happened to Miguel de Icaza, who pushed the Linux desktop into obscurity by dividing the effort between KDE and GNOME and promoting .NET.

Systemd has the potential to kill free operating systems completely. Because the Linux kernel itself has proven invulnerable to attacks (except that the SCO case is reopened), this is targeted at init and sneaked in via udev and friends. We will see how it plays out.
 
  


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