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Old 06-10-2013, 03:49 AM   #421
fgcl2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottavio View Post
To be honest my washing machine's boot time is a bit too long, I might install systemd on it.
Good idea; it will perform all the washing steps in parallel!
 
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:37 AM   #422
brianL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fgcl2k View Post
Good idea; it will perform all the washing steps in parallel!
Wow! Washing, rinsing, and spin-drying, all at once. Praise Poettering!!! How about ironing?
 
Old 06-10-2013, 01:26 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by kikinovak View Post
What is it that is so fascinating about boot times? What would you think of someone claiming "Hey, I can start my car faster than you" ?!?
If someone was turning the key and the engine nearly instantly started while I was priming the carbeurator, setting the choke, and hand crank starting the engine, I'd be more than a little envious.
 
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:40 PM   #424
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Yeah but that it is not like I have to do equivalents to "priming the carburettor, setting the choke, and hand crank starting the engine" under Slackware's init. I am still just "turning the key" (switching the machine on) and perhaps it takes a little longer to get running but certainly not enough that I would give a crap.
 
Old 06-10-2013, 02:29 PM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartgymnast View Post
systemd is still in alpha phase.

as long as for example red hat is not using systemd for RHEL is not even considered stable.
and slackware will not consider using it before RHEL uses it. (look at the consider)

systemd still has a long way to go, lots of problems needs to be fixed, lots of features to be added.
just look at systemd's TODO list. http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/TODO

my personal guess is, that it will take 2 years before we can consider in implementing systemd.
systemd is aimed for desktops and not for servers.
for servers systemd is no improvements.
if you look at it from desktop side, than systemd can be a very good init system.
In there you mentioned:

Quote:
systemd is aimed for desktops and not for servers.
Yes, but systemd is aimed at servers, not just desktops. Most Linux distributions outside of retail systems like Red Hat or Ubuntu rarely ship a separate Server Edition. Because of this, Linux distributions end up being an All-In-One distribution with Server and Desktop tools available in one package. There is no distinguishing Slackware for Servers with Slackware for Desktops. Slackware is Slackware with only what you pick to install with it.

This is where literally you end up with a problem.

Also, systemd is being widely used even though it's still Alpha software. Already Linux distributions were in a rush to grab it, throw it in, and force it down their user's throats whether they liked it or not, or if it worked or not.
 
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:51 PM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myk267 View Post
If someone was turning the key and the engine nearly instantly started while I was priming the carbeurator, setting the choke, and hand crank starting the engine, I'd be more than a little envious.
What kind of ancient car do you have? All I have to do is pull the choke knob all the way out, make sure the power to the points is on (or it'll just crank without starting until the battery runs out), hold down the starter button on the dash until it fires up, and then ease the choke back in until it's running smooth.
 
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:52 PM   #427
ttk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
Yes, but systemd is aimed at servers, not just desktops.
This is absolutely true. As much as I dislike systemd, the potential advantages it would deliver in a datacenter are obvious and needed.

Today, a single admin in front of a workstation can monitor thousands of servers through their POST and initial boot (via software multiplexing of serial consoles, or IPMI with more modern hardware).

Once those servers have successfully booted into their operating system and have started their services, that admin can continue to monitor and control those thousands of servers (via ssh multiplexing, snmp messaging, nagios, etc).

There's a significant period in between these two modes, while the operating system is booting and before services have started, where that admin has relatively little control of the system, limited monitoring, and almost no ability to fix things when they go awry. If they see something bad in the serial console log that prevents sshd from starting, they might be able to remote power-cycle the server and see if that fixes it, but beyond that it's crash-cart time.

Providing hooks into the OS boot and service startup process where a remote user can monitor and control things at a fine level is a good thing, but I emphatically wish systemd weren't the solution. Surely we can implement these hooks without ditching sysvinit, without taking startup scripts out of administrators' hands, without introducing so much new (and therefore buggy) and complex (and therefore buggy) software into this most critical realm, and without holding a gun to users' heads and snarling "use it, or lose udev".

Quote:
Also, systemd is being widely used even though it's still Alpha software. Already Linux distributions were in a rush to grab it, throw it in, and force it down their user's throats whether they liked it or not, or if it worked or not.
Yes, this. The scope of systemd adoption is dismaying. Even Debian (which is traditionally conservative about its development, similar to Slackware) has taken it up.
 
Old 06-10-2013, 03:19 PM   #428
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SysVInit shouldn't be unenthusiastically dropped. Far from it.

SysVInit needs to be expanded upon much like OpenRC did, and maybe OpenRC needs expanding to include these system hooks, toolkits, and other system critical functions while upholding the principles of SysVInit, maintaining the UNIX Philosophy, and even abiding by what the Linux Base Standard wants to accomplish.

I think should we, and if we, were to be given a choice of systemd or OpenRC, I honestly feel OpenRC is the wiser choice. Maybe, just saying, but just maybe those distributions that want to keep systemd out should look into collaborating into OpenRC developments and maybe even reviving or renewing interest in non-udev systems like Hotplug, eudev, and mDev and such, should the unforeseen arise. Gentoo is doing it, but honestly, should they be doing it alone? Probably not.

If a system can be successfully devised with udev crossed out, chances are we can work around the need for systemd as well.

Last edited by ReaperX7; 06-10-2013 at 03:20 PM.
 
Old 06-10-2013, 06:20 PM   #429
Darkmaze
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can i boot to prompt yes
access Internet yes
mount disks yes
init complete
 
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:27 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
Also, systemd is being widely used even though it's still Alpha software. Already Linux distributions were in a rush to grab it, throw it in, and force it down their user's throats whether they liked it or not, or if it worked or not.
In a way, this is a gift from "Bob". As a Slackware user, I simply open a bag of pop-corn, sit back, and watch the early adapters as they jump through hoops. I am sure that if systemd ever gets inside Slackware, it will be a pleasure to work with.
 
Old 06-10-2013, 08:34 PM   #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qweasd View Post
In a way, this is a gift from "Bob". As a Slackware user, I simply open a bag of pop-corn, sit back, and watch the early adapters as they jump through hoops. I am sure that if systemd ever gets inside Slackware, it will be a pleasure to work with.
Maybe all we need is sysvinit.service.
 
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:53 PM   #432
ReaperX7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkerdi View Post
Maybe all we need is sysvinit.service.
...or maybe slackware.service
 
Old 06-10-2013, 11:16 PM   #433
jprzybylski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
I think should we, and if we, were to be given a choice of systemd or OpenRC, I honestly feel OpenRC is the wiser choice. Maybe, just saying, but just maybe those distributions that want to keep systemd out should look into collaborating into OpenRC developments and maybe even reviving or renewing interest in non-udev systems like Hotplug, eudev, and mDev and such, should the unforeseen arise. Gentoo is doing it, but honestly, should they be doing it alone? Probably not.
I am still waiting for the day that all init schemes are replaced by runit.

PS: Personally, I don't think systemd is quite the match for Slackware. Not that it is that bad, even - really, everybody could stand to read the Jargon File for some perspective - but its priorities don't run as close to Slackware as sysvinit's do.
 
Old 06-10-2013, 11:58 PM   #434
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RUnit looks very good on paper. The fact it's portable to other varieties of UNIX and UNIX-like systems makes it very desirable to look into. I also like the fact that you don't have to actually replace your existing Init system, but rather have both RUnit and (for example) SysVInit work together.

Perhaps someone could draft up a version of RUnit for Slackware for testing purposes? Perhaps a SlackBuild is in order?
 
Old 06-11-2013, 09:09 AM   #435
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I'm able to read C code and I've looked into systemd (and udev). It's poorly written. You can clearly see, that the author doesn't have enough experience for a project of such a scale. The whole design reflects this.

If I want mediocre code to be a central part of my IT, I can just go for a closed-source commercial OS.
 
  


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