Slackware 12.2 on a laptop?

bgeddy · 01-23-2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

dye ? what dye ?

I have DVDs burned a long time ago, maybe 8 years or so, and they still work just fine.

The dye used in the optical medium to record data.This dye is subject to fading through exposure to light.

Fred R. Byers wrote and excellent guide on storage of optical media which mentions this describing the dye layer as "the data layer".

Personally I would still consider a well written and well stored optical medium to be more dependable than a hard disk drive for backup purposes.

onebuck · 01-23-2009, 04:44 PM

Hi,

Punched tape!

Slow but reliable.

Seriously archival methods would be to store medium in a air tight, closed cell containment to prevent any damage to the media. This would then be stored in a secure controlled environment off site. The media be it a cd/dvd or even tape should be 'grandfathered'. In days past we would use Winchester drives and store the disc pack off site (grandfathered) usually in a vaulted storage facility. The cycling of the backup would be such as that the worst case we would be able to restore day/week/month. The disc packs were around $1000/ea, but to not have the insurance wasn't even considered. That 1K was for Winchester packs, the SMD packs were around $5K/ea.

I can now backup to a CD/DVD with the cost per disk <$0.20 per disk for quality media.

H_TeXMeX_H · 01-24-2009, 11:41 AM

Well, I didn't know that dyes were actually used, I knew it was either a chemical compound or in some cases an alloy. Well I guess a dye is a chemical compound. Anyway, thanks for the info.

H_TeXMeX_H · 02-05-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilgar

OK here is my latest report:

On Windows I get around ~40-50 cycles per hour which is still too much. I haven't tried setting APM off, though. Following someone's idea in the Ubuntu bugreport page, I wrote a small script which keeps calling smartctl every 3 seconds:

Code:

#!/bin/bash

while [ 1 ]
do
smartctl -d ata -a /dev/sda | grep Load_Cycle_Count
sleep 3
done

The point is this command wakes the HD up, so it prevents head parking. Using "sleep 5" wasn't enough. It seems the drive is pretty aggressive, it will park the head in 4-5 seconds of inactivity. Since I've been running this script, the cycle count is frozen at 1529559. The temperature is 43 C which is nominal for this drive.

I can now confirm that this solution works with a Hitachi Travelstar on my laptop. It keeps it from cycling at all while the computer is on. Again, thanks for the solution Ilgar.

Ilgar · 02-05-2009, 02:51 PM

You're welcome H_TeXMeX_H. Does anyone have an idea whether this method is safe enough? That is, I'm not sure if it may pose other risks to the disk. In my case, since the count is already at 1,5 million it is perhaps justified to take these supposed risks. One thing that I've noticed after using this script is that, sometimes when I suspend or shutdown the computer (thus when the disk is powered off) I hear a faint beep-like sound, which seems to come from the disk. I am not sure that it is the disk where the sound comes from but I was unable to reproduce it when the script is not running. Otherwise there's no noticeable change in the disk behaviour or performance when the script is on.

H_TeXMeX_H · 02-05-2009, 03:28 PM

Well, I think there is no reason for it not to be safe. Either way, my drive, about 2-3 years old has a Power_Cycle_Count value of 26 where 0 means the drive is dead. It's gonna die soon anyway. This hack will just slow its death while I order another drive. I'll watch for any strange noises tho.

Ilgar · 02-06-2009, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H

my drive, about 2-3 years old has a Power_Cycle_Count value of 26 where 0 means the drive is dead.

Are you sure that this is true? I'm now typing from my work computer and I don't have my laptop with me now, but as far as I remember I had a power cycle count around 1900 and it increases with every suspend/reboot. So in your case it should mean that you've rebooted/suspended your computer 26 times so far.

... And here is some link about this attribute:

http://www.ariolic.com/activesmart/s...cle-count.html

H_TeXMeX_H · 02-06-2009, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilgar

Are you sure that this is true? I'm now typing from my work computer and I don't have my laptop with me now, but as far as I remember I had a power cycle count around 1900 and it increases with every suspend/reboot. So in your case it should mean that you've rebooted/suspended your computer 26 times so far.

Oh, I was meaning the threshold value not the raw value. The raw value is I believe around 400,000 or so, or 40,000 ? I gotta check.

Ilgar · 02-06-2009, 06:24 AM

That was stupid of me. 26 is too low for a raw value of course

. This evening I'll check my threshold values too, I've never paid attention to that. Do you have an estimate about the drop rate in your case? Is it noticeable?

H_TeXMeX_H · 02-06-2009, 07:21 AM

Here are the values for the drive:

Code:

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000d   100   100   050    Pre-fail  Offline      -       38654705681
  2 Throughput_Performance  0x0005   100   100   050    Pre-fail  Offline      -       3938
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   100   100   050    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   098   098   000    Old_age   Always       -       2348
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       6
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   100   100   050    Pre-fail  Always       -       937
  8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0005   100   100   050    Pre-fail  Offline      -       1236
  9 Power_On_Minutes        0x0032   083   083   000    Old_age   Always       -       8667h+53m
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   050    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   098   098   000    Old_age   Always       -       2307
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x000a   100   094   000    Old_age   Always       -       8589937592
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       9
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   026   026   000    Old_age   Always       -       445383/445373
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   086   038   000    Old_age   Always       -       47 (Lifetime Min/Max 9/71)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   100   095   000    Old_age   Always       -       487
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       6
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate    0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       1
223 Load_Retry_Count        0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
230 Head_Amplitude          0x0032   089   089   000    Old_age   Always       -       338460
250 Read_Error_Retry_Rate   0x000a   100   095   000    Old_age   Always       -       859

The drive is:

Code:

Model Family:     HITACHI Travelstar DK23XX/DK23XXB series
Device Model:     HITACHI_DK23EA-60

Ilgar · 02-06-2009, 10:37 AM

Here is the data for my harddisk:

Code:

Device Model:     SAMSUNG HM120JI
Serial Number:    S116JD0P589441
Firmware Version: YF100-18

Code:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   253   100   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   253   253   025    Pre-fail  Always       -       2816
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   097   097   000    Old_age   Always       -       3948
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       1
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   253   253   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0025   253   253   015    Pre-fail  Offline      -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   253   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       5544
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0033   253   253   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       6
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       1964
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   068   046   034    Old_age   Always       -       32 (Lifetime Min/Max 20/54)
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0012   097   097   000    Old_age   Always       -       35249
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0012   253   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0012   001   001   000    Old_age   Always       -       1529751
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   068   046   000    Old_age   Always       -       32 (Lifetime Min/Max 20/54)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       416559
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       1
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   253   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   253   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x000a   253   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate    0x0012   253   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
223 Load_Retry_Count        0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       6
225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0012   001   001   000    Old_age   Always       -       1529751
255 Unknown_Attribute       0x000a   253   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

Reaching the threshold doesn't necessarily mean that the drive will die, but it certainly means a red alert, as in my case.

H_TeXMeX_H · 02-06-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilgar

Here is the data for my harddisk:

Code:

Device Model:     SAMSUNG HM120JI
Serial Number:    S116JD0P589441
Firmware Version: YF100-18

Code:

193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0012   001   001   000    Old_age   Always       -       1529751

225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0012   001   001   000    Old_age   Always       -       1529751

Reaching the threshold doesn't necessarily mean that the drive will die, but it certainly means a red alert, as in my case.

lol, well yes, you are right, there's no way it could predict the day in which the drive will die. It's more like terminal illness ... today, maybe tomorrow, maybe next week, but soon ...

Code:

              The  Attribute  table  printed  out  by  smartctl also shows the
              "TYPE" of the Attribute. Attributes  are  one  of  two  possible
              types:  Pre-failure or Old age.  Pre-failure Attributes are ones
              which, if less than or equal to their threshold values, indicate
              pending  disk  failure.   Old age, or usage Attributes, are ones
              which indicate end-of-product life from old-age or normal  aging
              and wearout, if the Attribute value is less than or equal to the
              threshold.  Please note: the fact that an Attribute is  of  type
              'Pre-fail'  does  not  mean that your disk is about to fail!  It
              only has this meaning  if  the  Attribute´s  current  Normalized
              value is less than or equal to the threshold value.

It's true that this is not a Pre-fail attribute, but drives die of old age just as much as they die of stress or poor manufacturing.

Anyway, my advice is if you haven't already done so, backup your data. Your drive is in far worse shape than mine.

"Laptop drives, are designed to some 500,000 spin downs/ups in compared to the sub 40,000 of a desktop drive."
http://buffalo.nas-central.org/index...rive_when_idle

Ilgar · 02-06-2009, 02:43 PM

I already did that (the backup). One thing which makes me optimistic is that, this computer has been like a portable "desktop" machine for me. That is, I almost never used it when traveling, put it on my lap or even carried it around too much. It had a vibration-free life till now. Hopefully, the disk is therefore in good shape still. I wish I had been aware of this issue earlier. It is serious enough and deserves more attention. Who knows how many disks' lives were shortened because of this problem.