Like Melkor, I've read a lot more than I've posted. I was getting answers from the forums here for two years before I even registered. I can say I don't recall reading anything that answered a question by suggesting to use another distro(and Ubuntu didn't exist yet). The closest thing is, in the casual discussions, not really addressing a question, mentioning that some things are easier in other distros than in Slackware. I've never gotten the impression that they're telling others not to use Slackware because a program or device won't work out of the box.

As for a GUI I do use one most of the time. I switch between KDE and Fluxbox and I've spent a lot of time, often asking questions here, later being able to answer many, to configure both to my personal taste. I do, however, use the commandline quite often as well, both from in a konsole or aterm window and by itself without X running. I learn it because I value it as the powerful tool it is.

Looks like it's being pretty well-squashed so far. As you say, it may have happened only a handful of times when dealing with something "cutting-edge". And it may not have even been Slackers who suggested it.

The "form" or presentation of an answer could be what gives that impression. Someone who answers with few words could give a newbie a very different impression than someone who offers more details and options.

Excuse me gentlemen, but this looks like a discussion of a non-issue. Probably that's why so many people got here to talk about it even after the author admitted that the problem that started it all doesn't exist...

I use Slackware on a laptop.
I have compiz-fusion on it.
I adore Emacs!
I also have Arch on the same machine, because I didn't like Slamd.

I love my high horse, but I'm not snotty. And none of the people here are.

I once suggested on the Debian forums that a person who couldn't figure out how to power off his computer might be well advised to try a different distribution. A moderator had a big snit over my uncaring attitude. So I started another thread asking the question, "Under what circumstances would you tell a newbie not to use Debian?" Of course, it turned into a 15 page war.

I make no apology for the position that most, not all, newbies would be better off starting with a distro intended for Windows refugees. Once they're comfortable in a Linux environment, they can consider the merits of moving on to the real thing, which, IMO, is either Debian or Slackware.

Hi,

I'm not on a 'High Horse', I ride real horses.

Sure, some are taller than others but that's moot!

I take offense to what you say about;

I do my best to assist anyone to the best of my abilities be it on LQ or anywhere. For Slackware or whatever someone may need help with.

I can't speak for other LQ members but I have been on other forums and Usenet (that's another post altogether). LQ and especially the Slackware LQ forum is the best. I participate on other LQ forums but find the Slackware forum is the most informative forum here. We do have our problems but not of the sort you mention. I would like you to present to me and others within this thread the post(s) that drift the way you state.

Sure there are times that I will suggest that the user should do some work on their own. But I do steer them as best as possible, either via a link or suggest a search on LQ or Google. Especially when the problem they present is redundant.

The 'Poor newbie" as you put it, is not really aware of what or how to present their question. Sometimes the newbie's problem is presented internationally or even regional. Therefore for one to communicate on a forum of this type it can be perilous since people can be construed incorrectly therefore to be able to convey information in a manner that everyone can interpret is difficult. This statement is true for the poster and the respondent person who attempts to present information in a manner that is easily understood. Now mix in Slackware. A great distribution that will grow on you if you let it!


Age wise but not set in my ways. I turn the other cheek to you!

You had both cheeks now!

I run a headless server and she's fine. I also have several testbeds that are used for Slackware and other uses. I have NEVER discouraged anyone from doing something. I come from academia and find your statement an insult.

There are some people I would tell to use another distribution, but not because Slackware lacks any particular feature, but simply because Slackware demands a certain kind of user: the type of person who is prepared to read and learn - not the type who expect to be spoon fed, demand third party pre-built package repositories, want nice point-and-click tools to do it all for them, etc.

These are people for who Slackware is unsuitable, and who should be steered away from it - not because of technical reasons, but simply because their expectations and 'needs' do not match up with what Slackware provides.

I agree with cathectic. Slackware was my first Linux distro (which I am still using) and I didn't really have any problems because I read a lot (Linux started out as a learning experience for me and eventually pushed its way onto my desktop). However, Slackware really isn't right for some people that don't want to read excessive (or even moderate) amounts of material. It's also probably a bad distro for the search-incompetent or the technologically-illiterate (I'm exaggerating here -- sarcasm doesn't work very well in text). But seriously, my sister wouldn't want to have to read about it (she'd rather the system do everything for her and if there's a problem or it's inefficient she would deal with it [or more realistically she'd call me]). My mom is really really bad with technology in general -- Slackware would consist of her throwing the PC out the window (although I guess it would be alright if it was already properly set-up).

However, the opposite point is also true -- if people want to use Slackware, an effort should be made to help them solve the problem in Slackware. It's always possible to offer both alternatives -- you could tell someone that the feature is already there (or easy to configure) in another distro, but if they like Slackware the problem can be solved by doing this or that. Easy way out.

I agree. People should read distrowatch before installing.

Hi there

My mother uses Slackware. She does not know anything about the console and she doesn't have the slightest idea of what is the kernel. But she does know Slackware is stable. It doesn't normally stop responding the way Windows does. It's strong and she has no fear of viruses. It has Skype and OpenOffice.org (installed by me) so she does everything she needs in Slackware whitout having to boot Windows. Actually, I use Windows more than she does -to play PristonTale.

Of course I had to configure some things, but in any case the only thing I normally do in a new Slackware installation is alsaconfig, activate runlevel 4, putting my user in the plugdev group and installing the same software and games I normally use. That's pretty easy, even for a newbie.

I have had experiences with Debian (and some Debians), Suse, RedHat and Mandriva. I find Slackware easier to configure and use. It's true (in the aforementioned case) that a newbie like my mother doesn't have the knowledge to do it by him/herself. But that would also have been the case with Windows.

A friend's little sister got a PC about 2 months ago (she's about 7 and doesn't know too much about computers). It has Windows XP and Slackware (a properly installed and configured Slackware 12). She prefers Slackware because it's "nicer", not because the command-line or the kernel. I had to configure everything, but I have noticed that once properly set up, Slackware runs smoothly and mostly whitout problems. True, Slackware does not *focus* on being easy for newbies. But it ultimately comes to be relatively easy. Say, you don't have to configure Windows XP. But the time you spend cleaning the hard drive of viruses, reinstalling software, etc...

I am personally disgusted too. I use KDE most of the time. I update most of the packages I can when I need to and have the time for it. I personally dislike vi (bash me, I'm honest enough to admit it). I do not install vim and keep elvis just in case, but I must have used it twice in my entire life. (used, not tried. I did try vim and didn't like it). I use mcedit when I'm at the command line or sshing another PC. I use kwrite and gedit most of the time. I know a friend who refuses to use anything but Eclipse because kwrite creates "those creepy green files".

As for advancements from the last 5 years, I'm browsing this forum using FF 2.0.0.11 with many plugins and addons including FlashPlayer 9.0.111 and Firebug, I'm running aMule and Mercury at the other window and have a large collection of music in Amarok. I have installed OpenOffice.org 2.3 and downloaded AdobeReader8 (but still using 7 because I like to package everything and I've been busy lately... and packaging it would just...). This box also has the latest Apache, PHP and PostgreSQL compiled by me. In the backbone, I'm using my own custom 2.6.21.5 kernel with bootsplash patch (I don't like Splashy yet) and glibc 2.5 (planning to experiment with Slackware-current and glibc 2.7 as soon as I have time and a box). I use K3B, which like Amarok comes with Slackware 12. And by the way, Slackware 12 implemented HAL and D-Bus so I don't have to mount my CDs manually anymore. (I had implemented a work-around for that, but anyway). I wouldn't call Slackware an antiquated distro or say it lacks a sense of modernity.

You have just said it. Slackware is quite capable of running a headless file server *as well* as running a gaming station or a media center. That's up to you.

Power to the people!

My thinking is that you should always attempt to answer the original poster's question. Even if they are trying to turn Slackware inside out so it could be their personal hair dresser you should try to answer their question on how to do this. Sometimes, however, you should include a reference to an alternative tool that might fit the needs better, whether this tool be another program or even another distro. This is especially true if the tool wasn't really designed to fit the need in the first place. This is how I personally feel about swaret and emerde in Slackware, which is why I have the quote above.

Linux is all about choices, but lack of knowledge in a person limits their choices. Therefore, teaching them how to accomplish what they need with their currently known tools should be done along side any suggestions of alternate tools/methods.

This thread is a good reminder that the way we go about this should be done carefully, as sometimes the way things are worded can leave an impression other than what was intended.

I wonder if the original poster was not refering to the "Preferences for the next Slackware" thread, where some people (including me) had the opinion that some proposed improvements would change too much the philosophy of Slackware and if some people would want them, they would better use another distro.

Your condescending tone and insulting verbiage have completely insured that no intelligent discussion will be possible in this thread. Thanks!

So you're saying that Slackware users typically tell people coming from other distros not to use Slackware ??? I don't think I've seen such a thing. I usually see the opposite, many users of other distros consider Slackware 1337 and not for use by n00bs, much like Gentoo. That's their impression and they try to steer newbies away from Slackware and to Ubuntu or Fedora or other mainstream distros. Whenever I see that, I try to intervene, Slackware is really not that hard, but it does require that you RTFM at least once

Slackware is the best distro IMO, and the only distro I truly recommend, even to newbies. (I also mention Debian for use as a server, because it is stable, and of course for desktop too, I don't like it so much tho).

I've only ever told people that distro choice was a matter of personal taste. Try as many as you want, then use what suits you.

I too recommend trying as many distros as possible, but try Slackware at least once before giving up on Linux.

I've used Linux now for over 5 years as my main operating system. I've used a large number of distros and I still consider myself one of those "poor newbies". I've learned what I know about Linux from forums, searches and books.
Never once have I ever had a reply in any forum of the type you mention.
All I can say is I learned more after installing Slackware 12 than I did from all the previous distro's I used. A lot of that knowledge came from the documentation and hands on experience, but a great deal came from this and other forums.
"We are grateful for the paths you've forged,..." Exactly who is this "we" you presume to speak for? Not me, that's for sure.
I think evilDagmar sums it up.