Quote:
|
Quote:
My kernel has the BFS patch & is about 3mb, and I have very few init3 services on boot. Runs very quickly and my memory footprint is minimal. I'm going to try this with a Slack build running Openbox, and compare benchmarks. |
Thanks guys. Some interesting responses.
Quote:
I understand the dependencies with debian, but not the config files with Mandrake. Surely it would not overwrite changes by hand unless you used one of it's gui tools, in which case that would be expected? If you only ever edited it by hand, it should have kept it like that? Just curious... Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wow. How interesting. To me, of course, without a doubt, slack is lightweight. This is a very good thing. It had absolutely nothing to do with the software that ships as part of the distribution. I consider Arch lightweight(moreso than Slack), however, the fact that I could install everything from the Arch repository does not negate the fact that it is lightweight. Slack is lightweight because it is clean and simple, and only what is necessary is installed. There is no additional fluff, unneccesary dependencies etc. One of the reasons slack is minimal and lightweight, is because I can know where everything is on my system, what it does and how it is configured. It is not so easy to do that on a heavyweight distribution. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So, it seems to be a common misconception that you don't have compelte control on those systems. Of course it is easier with a distro like slack, which is why we like it, but it is no less possible(or even that hard) with the friendlier distros. Quote:
|
Quote:
However this can be again argued that Fedora and suse also provides a whole stack of software collection in their DVD releases. It's again my personal opinion and preference. I just like the slackware's approach to keeping it simple and the vanilla packages just the way developer's intended them to be and I trust Pat's judgment. ;) |
Maybe the difference is in mentalities... When I use Slackware and something goes wrong, I assume I'm at fault for not knowing what to do. When I use another OS I assume the os or the software did something wrong and now I have to fix it.
|
Quote:
Again it can't forbid you from doing anything you want to with fedora, it's just not worth it to mess with a system which wasn't intended to mess with. For messing things up there's always arch and gentoo. ;) |
Quote:
The reason I lack slack, is that the software shipped is sane and vanilla. I don't think it is fair to say it is more complete than the other distros. The numerous advantages of slack are not in the amount of software it ships with, to me. |
I can give you some examples of how Slack teaches you the "Linux" way vs. Debian. I'm not trying to slam Debian here as it is a good distro as well.
1) In Debian you edit /etc/network/interfaces and provide all of your wireless network settings; in Slack you use /etc/rc.d/rc.inet1.conf and wpa_supplicant.conf. Some distros are using the same configuration files as Debian but not all of them. Not a huge difference but there it is. 2) In Debian you can try to compile the kernel the standard way, but if you have problems and ask for help the first thing you'll see in the forum posts is: "Did you try it the Debian way"? 3) There's a "Debian" way for installing AMD drivers. Instead of just running the ATI installer, you run 3 commands and build the module the Debian way. I have to mention that this was far easier than trying to get the ATI drivers working in Slackware 12.2, although I had no problems with ATI drivers in Slackware 13. Of course you can do it the standard way, but they try to steer you in their direction. 4) Building lirc or mythtv. The wiki tells you how to do it the Debian way. You're on your own if you want to do it the standard way (I know this isn't a big deal). The annoyance is if you want to install mythvideo from the package repository later: the package manager will automatically install mythtv (a dependency) even though you've already built it. Also it's tricky to build your own packages in Debian. 5) Slackware teaches you how to compile and build programs. If you've only ever run 1 slackbuild and taken a look at what the script did, you've learned more than a year's worth of pulling packages from the Debian repository. 6) If you've edited any config files, you better keep track and mark them in the package manager or else they will be overwritten if you do updates. 7) 64-bit. Most distros make that seamless for you: they just install nspluginwrapper and flash for you and you don't really notice. In Slackware I've had to do it myself for the first time. My point is you feel like you're going against the grain when you try to customize Debian; Slackware tries to stay out of your way. |
Quote:
Oh btw, please do re-check ubuntu doesn't provide you with codecs or java, fedora is well known for not supporting mp3 and it doesn't provide you codecs either, suse doesn't either iirc. |
I'm sold on Funtoo's - OpenRc 5.0, Baselayout 2.1.6, Portage's profiles & make.conf (emerge, eix, rc tools) - This gives the user complete control of all run levels and configs. There's not a config file I can't adjust to serve my needs. Oh, and the Overlays are great for testing new releases.
|
Quote:
Slackware gives you the essentials, in a clean and unpatched way. I prefer this, but don't consider it to be 'more complete'. I'm not 100% sure if most of the other distros don't provide propietary stuff because of philosophy or legal reasons, but if they don't, they generally make it trivial to get them. |
From your posts I've noticed you like lean and mean with no frills. I think Slackware will help you achieve this admirably, although you could do this with any distro if you wanted.
You could make a lightning-fast Ubuntu if you wanted, but it would probably be harder to do (kind of funny thinking about it, since the main goal is to make things "user-friendly"). You could achieve this more easily with Debian than Ubuntu, but I think Slackware reigns in this department. Probably the worst distro for you would be SUSE, where they don't want you editing any files: in most config files at the top they say "DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE" (they have a GUI for everything and don't want you messing it up). I haven't tried SUSE since 10.2, so it might have changed a bit since then. I considered Arch but didn't like how bleeding edge everything was, and Gentoo but heard that there's a lot of strife among the developers. From your extensive knowledge it seems you'd be happier with any of the "power user" distros, but use whatever you like. |
Quote:
My point is that GUIs are fine as long as they work. When something breaks it is important that an end user understands what the underlying processes are. GUIs give a new Linux user a false sense of security, so when something breaks a new user will often re-install, rather than fix the problem. It is the new user who is most vulnerable if they are dependent on point-and-click. |
Quote:
This post is not about finding a distro for me, I have enoug experience and I am happy with my choice. It was about the fact that many users of Arch, Slack, Gentoo etc will "look down" on distributions like Fedora, Ubuntu, SUSE etc. And, there are certainly a few opinionated reasons to do so. However, it is a common thing that it is said that such distributions make it hard for you to edit files and administer your own system. I think this is untrue. Debian-esque systems can make it hard to build packages manually without using repositories, but you can do it. No distros directly prevent you from editing config files, but may overwriteyour changes if you use the provided gui programs. Which should be expected. I don't think anyone is arguing some distros make it harder to manually administer a system than others, but people are saying some distros try to prevent you from doing this...which I think is false. |
What about SUSE with it's "DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE" stuff? They're explicitly discouraging you from editing files manually. You can still do it of course, since it is Linux, just it might screw up the GUI or the GUI might screw it up if you ever ran it. And with Debian it seems like there's the "Debian way" or your way, but it's always harder to do things your own way.
I agree that the "power user" distros have some elitists. I'd also say that anyone that can install Arch has a lot more knowledge than the average Ubuntu user, and the Gentoo forum users seem to have more understanding of how things work than the Ubuntu forums (although both are useful). That's no excuse for looking down on the other distro users, but it does happen. With every distro you have posts with "look at the stupid noob" crap. Everyone starts as a noob. I remember seeing one post where the idiot was telling a noob to run dd and basically trash their hard drive: fortunately there was another user to set them straight. |
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:27 AM. |