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Old 05-09-2008, 06:32 PM   #46
adriv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhubsith View Post
This was with a standard configure/make/make install.
Use the SlackBuild script that Robby linked to, it works great. Compiling MPLayer yourself can be nasty (been there, done that), with the SLackBuild script from http://slackbuilds.org/, you'll be fine.

Can we stop arguing about "this distro is best"?
Thank you!
If you don't like Slackware/Debian/Fedora/Ubuntu/whatever, just don't use it and use the one you DO like.
It's as simple as that.
 
Old 05-10-2008, 03:48 AM   #47
introuble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T3slider View Post
I don't want to have to call someone every time my computer breaks just because they've simplified the OS beyond the level of being able to fix anything should it go wrong.
Good, but there are users out there (many, I should say) who -do- want to call someone when their computer "breaks". There are those who see the computer as a tool, just like you might see your car, or <whatever>. They don't care about the inner works (nor should they). That was the point I was trying to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T3slider
Your analogy here was especially poor I think -- cars are immensely complex and things go wrong ALL the time, requiring you to visit a shop if and when it does
Are you by any chance suggesting a computer is less complex as far as the average Joe is concerned? You usually can't call a mechanic to your home and have him fix your car; that's why, unlike (usually) with a computer, you take your car to a shop.

I'm sure the Slackware community has great packages and all that. I don't care. Nobody can say they see no difference between using a "non-official" package and an official one. 3rd party repositories don't notify you of updates, as I've previously mentioned, but you seem to have ignored this aspect. Slackware has a ChangeLog, which works very well from this point of view.

--

I can see that me being a Debian user seems to make some of you think that this is some sort of Debian vs Slackware thing. Please understand that I simply do not care what distribution other people use. If you like Slackware, fine by me. I'm not saying Debian is better nor am I trying to convert anyone to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adriv
Can we stop arguing about "this distro is best"?
We're not arguing about that, it's as simple as that.

Last edited by introuble; 05-10-2008 at 03:49 AM.
 
Old 05-10-2008, 03:56 AM   #48
AceofSpades19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by introuble View Post
Good, but there are users out there (many, I should say) who -do- want to call someone when their computer "breaks". There are those who see the computer as a tool, just like you might see your car, or <whatever>. They don't care about the inner works (nor should they). That was the point I was trying to make.



Are you by any chance suggesting a computer is less complex as far as the average Joe is concerned? You usually can't call a mechanic to your home and have him fix your car; that's why, unlike (usually) with a computer, you take your car to a shop.

I'm sure the Slackware community has great packages and all that. I don't care. Nobody can say they see no difference between using a "non-official" package and an official one. 3rd party repositories don't notify you of updates, as I've previously mentioned, but you seem to have ignored this aspect.
Does slackware notify you of updates period?, its quite obvious that we don't really care whether it notifies us of updates or not. Slackware is not <insertxdistrohere>. Slackware is slackware, it doesn't want to be another debian clone, or another red hat clone, if we wanted to be notified of updates then we would use a distro that did that for us, its as simple as that.
 
Old 05-10-2008, 04:12 AM   #49
b0uncer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by introuble View Post
Good, but there are users out there (many, I should say) who -do- want to call someone when their computer "breaks". There are those who see the computer as a tool, just like you might see your car, or <whatever>. They don't care about the inner works (nor should they). That was the point I was trying to make.
That's quite true, but usually this sort of people ask a salesman (or *person, if you insist) what would be good for them when bying the cadgets in the first place, and the salesman (at least if s/he's good at the work) sees it's time to sell something that "simply works", along with a pay-phone number to call when it doesn't. In short, in this sort of situation it's odd if you insist on selecting something you know you can't handle yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by introuble View Post
Are you by any chance suggesting a computer is less complex as far as the average Joe is concerned? You usually can't call a mechanic to your home and have him fix your car; that's why, unlike (usually) with a computer, you take your car to a shop.
I'd say there's nothing unusual in taking a computer to a shop for fixing (or switching it for a new one, if you will). There's a whole industry built around those services. And I bet if you pay enough, somebody will come and fix your card at your home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by introuble View Post
I'm sure the Slackware community has great packages and all that. I don't care. Nobody can say they see no difference between using a "non-official" package and an official one. 3rd party repositories don't notify you of updates, as I've previously mentioned, but you seem to have ignored this aspect. Slackware has a ChangeLog, which works very well from this point of view.
If we're talking about packages installed without trouble, there should be no difference between an "official" and a "non-official" package, as long as they're the same piece of software. It's just code compiled into something your computer understands, and if it's done like it should be, it doesn't matter from where the code came - it still does the same. In that light everybody can say they see no difference between using a "non-official"/"official" package.

None of the repositories/reposities (that I know) notify anybody of anything. They're merely "warehouses", space for the various packages tied to an address that an update tool knows to check. It's the program that notifies you of "new packages" (it just checks if there are files that are somehow marked newer than those it has installed, and if yes, tells you that).

About the original topic, "review"..now that I've tried Slackware 12.1 in a few different ways (regular/encrypted installation etc.), I can't say much bad about it. Actually the installation onto encrypted partition(s)/+LVM is one of the easiest I've met this far, and having that available is great.

Don't burn your brains over one distribution, you're free to choose another one. If you're having trouble, don't just nag about it, either stop and switch or simply ask for help - preferrably politely, because that's when other folks tend to answer politely.

Last edited by b0uncer; 05-10-2008 at 04:16 AM.
 
Old 05-10-2008, 04:16 AM   #50
andrew.46
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Perhaps on a sidenote I could mention that the Ubuntu community has some excellent resources on compiling mplayer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by adriv View Post
Use the SlackBuild script that Robby linked to, it works great. Compiling MPLayer yourself can be nasty (been there, done that), with the SLackBuild script from http://slackbuilds.org/, you'll be fine.
Compiling the svn mplayer:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=558538

Compiling against amr wide and narrow:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...&postcount=195

Compiling against the latest x264:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...&postcount=231

Compiling with dvdnav support:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...&postcount=193

I guess my point is that it is a myth that to use Ubuntu means you have no spark at all. Have a closer look at the Ubuntu forums and you will see some absolute gems scattered there.

And yes, I run slackware and ubuntu, and I wrote the mplayer material :-)

Andrew
 
Old 05-10-2008, 05:10 AM   #51
mcnalu
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Quote:
As for the car analogy, I know nothing about cars -- so if anything goes wrong, I get all nervous and have to take it in or talk to someone that knows something about cars. That's not fun. I would rather learn about cars and figure out how to diagnose a problem -- and I may do that some day. Your analogy here was especially poor I think -- cars are immensely complex and things go wrong ALL the time, requiring you to visit a shop if and when it does (in general I have no problems with my car, and it's pretty old -- but things happen once in a blue moon that I can't troubleshoot myself).
Apologies for straying a little OT, but this interests me because I love learning about and working on computers, and in much the same way, I love learning about and working on my 29 year mercedes. In fact, both are objects of slack to me.

I have to say that the old merc is far simpler and more reliable than any computer running any OS. I would go further and say the same of my fairly new VW too, though it is less reliable and fixing it often involves replacing a "black box" component with one bought from the dealer.

Of course, I realise it's a bit strange to be comparing a car with a computer because their uses are so different. But, I think it highlights the problem in comparing distros: they have different uses and cater to users with different needs and expectations.

One common expectation of users of cars, computers, OSes, fridges etc. is that you don't really need to read the manual. I know I'm in the minority of people who do RTFM first and so I'm also the kind of person who likes Slackware.

All that said, the person who wrote that review of slackware 12.1 should have known that with slackware, you do RTFM first.
 
Old 05-10-2008, 05:40 AM   #52
introuble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0uncer View Post
If we're talking about packages installed without trouble, there should be no difference between an "official" and a "non-official" package, as long as they're the same piece of software.
Why on earth are Slackware devs providing anything other than the "a" set? Users can just use 3rd party repositories for everything else, right?

Quote:
None of the repositories/reposities (that I know) notify anybody of anything.
I mentioned Slackware's ChangeLog. By 'notify' I didn't mean a bubble (or whatever) popping up on your desktop saying "these packages can be upgraded: <...>". A pure text file showing updates can have many advantages (and perhaps can even be used to write one of those bubble things). It's still a form of notification. And what about Slackware's security mailing list?
 
Old 05-10-2008, 07:51 AM   #53
randomsel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by introuble View Post
Why on earth are Slackware devs providing anything other than the "a" set? Users can just use 3rd party repositories for everything else, right?
It's an issue of trust for the user, and helpfulness of the dev.

I trust slackbuilds that come from rworkman, AlienBOB, and the rest of the slackbuilds.org team members. They are gracious enough to supply us with slackbuilds, often on request by the users. Slacky.eu is also very nice.

P.S. I'm also one of "those people" who don't use binary packages and build everything with slackbuilds.
 
Old 05-10-2008, 12:51 PM   #54
shadowsnipes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomsel View Post
It's an issue of trust for the user, and helpfulness of the dev.
In addition, all the official packages have all been tested together under one system, so that it can be made sure that the system as a whole is stable.

Also, there's an issue of consistency (if this is important to you). Some packagers have different styles that might not be incorrect, but you might prefer they put certain things in other places like your other packages do.

All in all, to each his/her own.

I'm not surprised by all the fuss over this review. Many Slackware users (myself included) have invested a significant amount of time into tuning our machine much like a mechanic and their favorite car. If someone where to test drive a similar car and complain about it because they didn't know how to drive a stick, then of course the mechanic would be offended, perhaps even horrified- much like how some Ubuntu users might be offended if Slackware users gripe about all the automation (without learning how to fine tune it so it doesn't eventually clutter your system).

That being said, Slackware 12.1 seems to take less fine tuning than some of the previous releases, and the upgrade from 12.0 is not hard (though it's not a one click affair either!).

I don't really foresee much more useful information going through this thread, so I think I'll just go back to using my distro of choice.
 
Old 05-10-2008, 01:01 PM   #55
BCarey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0uncer View Post
If we're talking about packages installed without trouble, there should be no difference between an "official" and a "non-official" package, as long as they're the same piece of software. It's just code compiled into something your computer understands, and if it's done like it should be, it doesn't matter from where the code came - it still does the same. In that light everybody can say they see no difference between using a "non-official"/"official" package.
I disagree with this. In the linux world, most packages have multiple dependencies. In order to have a stable system (which is part of Slackware's appeal), all the various components must work together, and all dependencies must be satisfied. And when changing any component consideration must be given both to other packages on which the component depends and on other packages which depend on the component. When you build a package yourself, you build it with dependencies (including version numbers of dependencies) which are on your machine, and so you can have a higher confidence level that your compiled program will work. So, if you are using a precompiled, non-official package, there is no guarantee that the package was compiled on a machine with the same set of dependencies as you have on your machine. That's why some packages on linuxpackages.net don't work as well as others, because they are not all compiled on a vanilla Slack system.

This is also where the trust issue comes in. I trust that a package from Alien_Bob was built on a system just like mine, unless of course I've changed things myself. So if I have a problem with one of his packages, I can be 99% certain it is my own fault. Having said that, I usually compile my own anyway with his SlackBuilds, or slackbuilds.org, or src2pkg/trackinstall.

That's also why many Slackers don't like package managers with automated dependency checking, because it tends to willy-nilly upgrade dependencies to the versions required by the package being installed, which can break other packages which were built on older versions.

Brian
 
Old 05-10-2008, 01:15 PM   #56
hitest
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCarey View Post
Having said that, I usually compile my own anyway with his SlackBuilds, or slackbuilds.org, or src2pkg/trackinstall.
Agreed. Trust is an issue when maintaining a stable, secure, slackware system. The only packages, build scripts that I use are the ones offered by Eric, Robby, and gnashley. I trust these developers:-)
I don't use the packages from linuxpackages.net.
 
Old 05-10-2008, 06:44 PM   #57
T3slider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by introuble
3rd party repositories don't notify you of updates, as I've previously mentioned, but you seem to have ignored this aspect.
Can't you just run slapt-get to find any new packages (assuming you use that)? (I've never used it, so I'm just guessing here)

And you seem to be extremely defensive much of the time (although you do--rarely--point out positives in Slackware). I've never said Debian (or any other distro) is bad. I've recommended Ubuntu and OpenSUSE to a friend and my mom uses Ubuntu. I just like Slackware myself. I get automatic notifications via e-mail when system packages are upgraded for security reasons. I know 100% that they'll work since they're official packages. Any other packages I install I take responsibility for myself. Most of my SlackBuilds come from slackbuilds.org, which I trust. You could easily make a script to check the pages for your installed applications from slackbuilds.org for updates (I believe chess is developing sbopkg which may assist in checking the ChangeLogs via command line). Bottom line: you *can* make Slackware check for updates if you wish.

I think I'm done with posting in this thread because it'll be beating a dead horse. Slackware is great. Debian is great. Ubuntu is great. OpenSUSE is great. Other distros are great. They all serve different purposes and are designed to be used by different people. If you don't like it, move on. The review was biased towards the writer's fondness of GUI hand-holding configuration -- which is fine for some people, but not for others. A better-written review would have given Slackware a fairly positive review (since there's nothing glaringly wrong about it if you RTFM and set it up correctly) but would have also stated the preferences of the writer (for example, he could have said something like "Although I prefer doing things with GUI interfaces without having to set stuff up manually by editing text files, Slackware offers immense stability and configurability by design. Although I personally prefer X distro over Slackware, anyone that wants a very stable, minimal, and simple system may prefer Slackware over some of the more GUI-intensive distros. Although Slackware is very newb-friendly, it requires you to read the supplied documentation, which may not be right for you -- or it may be. If you want to learn about the inner workings of a system, or just want a very simple setup that'll do exactly what you tell it to and nothing more, give Slackware a try -- you may just like it." Cheezy, yes, but something like that would have been more effective and less biased in my opinion).
 
Old 05-11-2008, 02:27 AM   #58
introuble
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I don't even know what that had to do with my posts, so.. yeah.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 02:01 PM   #59
H_TeXMeX_H
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can we just let this tread die ... there's no more point in arguing about it, it's getting nowhere

everyone's entitled to their own opinions, and that's that, no matter how close to the truth these opinions might be
 
  


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