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Old 05-07-2008, 07:41 PM   #16
hitest
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Smile


Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
It was amusing at first, but now it is becoming rather annoying.

All he proved was that he didn't RTFM.
I guess I found it funny that he claimed to be a slacker and a gentoo user.......gimmee a break:-)
Dolts writing reviews about our favourite software. Agreed. He should RTFM:-)
 
Old 05-07-2008, 07:42 PM   #17
Slacker_Rex
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Now I know why I never bothered to get a college degree. I would have never been able to figure out how to get slack to automount my drives :-)
 
Old 05-07-2008, 08:01 PM   #18
onebuck
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Hi,

I really think the reviewer did not do his homework. Either as an objective review by reading all the necessary support documents or by setting up the review session properly. His bias is noted;

Quote:
Past review on Slackware 11.
UPDATE AGAIN:: Looking over some of the jabs made at Patrick in light of the fact that he has been terribly, deathly ill, I decided to sanitize a few parts of this rant. Just because I dislike this particular Linux distribution doesn't mean I wish any harm to come to its creator.
I really think the Slackware group should just ignore this type of review as the reviewer is indeed biased.

Even newbies can make the simple mistake that the reviewer made but most do pursue to bring their system to a stable state.
 
Old 05-07-2008, 08:08 PM   #19
pumpump
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I did an upgrade from my existing 12.0, and a also fresh installation to just to try out the out-of-the-box experience. I must say 12.1 is quite ready to use right after a *proper* installation.
- Sound works automatically.
- Automounting works automatically (except some problems with UDF DVDs burnt using K3B and cdrtools)
- Chinese display works out-of-the-box with a nice font.
- Multilingual input works with a bit of work, just follow CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT.
- The new version of intel X driver caused some slowness issue with Firefox (I am using Intel GMA950 integrated graphics card). After some trying I found that using back the old XAA acceleration method solves the problem.

No doubt, Slackware 12.1 is the best version I have used so far!

Last edited by pumpump; 05-07-2008 at 08:12 PM.
 
Old 05-08-2008, 12:55 AM   #20
shadowsnipes
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Quote:
Slackware isn't exactly known for groundbreaking changes, so everything worked pretty much the same as the last 4 releases I've tried.
I found this to be a poor choice of words. Granted, this was in the context of the setup procedure, which really hasn't changed significantly in the past few releases. Part of this procedure, however, is to use CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT (which always changes), which was obviously not apparent to the reviewer.

Nor is it apparent to a lot of new users, which is why I suggested that future releases include a docs menu to the setup program. That way it would be harder for ignorant people to remain ignorant, and it would also underscore the fact that using the documentation is a part of the regular installation (and update) procedures. Too many people (especially the technically inclined) are used to opening the box to their gadget and using it without any regards to the documentation. While that can be a useful skill, and is a fun way to learn, it simply doesn't always produce exceptional results when applied to a "gadget" as complex as an operating system.
 
Old 05-08-2008, 05:38 AM   #21
introuble
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I'm not getting it; to tell you the truth I didn't find the article so 'anti-slackware' as other users on LQ seem to have. A common advice to people in search of a distribution is "try <this> and <that> and see which works best for you". Maybe Slackware didn't work as well for him as perhaps Fedora/Ubuntu/whatever would have, does this mean he must not be allowed to publish his own thoughts and opinions on Slack12.1 on his website?

Since when is "automation" (which currently is a bit of a vague term as far as I'm concerned) a -bad- thing? So those Linux distributors who bother trying to make life a little easier (i.e. less work) for their users are a**holes nowadays?

Also, opinions seem to be mixed in this thread. Some slackware users bash the author of the article saying "automation sucks; so slackware not having it is a -good thing-" then those who say "automation works on slackware perfectly - slackware 12.1 is the best release so far". Anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H
To the reviewer, please install Ubuntu immediately
Indeed, Ubuntu would probably suit him better and there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, that /loser/ Knuth uses Ubuntu too. Or perhaps he should install Fedora, like that -other loser- Torvalds...
 
Old 05-08-2008, 05:50 AM   #22
brianL
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Never take too much notice of subjective reviews such as that article: whether they're about distros, films, books, music, or anything. Find out what you like, and ignore everyone elses' opinions. If somebody prefers Ubuntu to Slackware, or vice versa - so what?
 
Old 05-08-2008, 06:01 AM   #23
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by introuble View Post
Maybe Slackware didn't work as well for him as perhaps Fedora/Ubuntu/whatever would have, does this mean he must not be allowed to publish his own thoughts and opinions on Slack12.1 on his website?
Valid opinions are welcome. Rubbish written by someone who refuses to read instructions isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by introuble View Post
Since when is "automation" ... a -bad- thing?
Who even implied as much? Slackware has had fully automated mounting (which works out-of-the-box BTW) for the past two releases.

I'll tell you what is a really "bad thing" though: A product review written by someone too self-important to read the instructions...
Quote:
Originally Posted by introuble View Post
Also, opinions seem to be mixed in this thread.
And yours is?
 
Old 05-08-2008, 08:04 AM   #24
introuble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen
Valid opinions are welcome. Rubbish written by someone who refuses to read instructions isn't.
Welcomed by who? It's like readers of this forum have some sort of say on what he puts on his website and on what he doesn't. If I want to create a website which says nothing more nor less than "The following distributions absolutely suck: <distribution list>", I'm free to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen
Who even implied as much?
Here you go: H_TeXMeX_H: "stop complaining about things not being automated, some people like it that way, maybe because the automation is trying to guess what I want to do and just can't.".

Quote:
And yours is?
I have no opinion on Slackware automation, I do not use Slackware, thanks for asking for my opinion though.

--

+ I'll say it again, when -I- read the article I got the impression he's actually pretty fond of how Slackware handles things; the "problem" being free/tweaking time.
 
Old 05-08-2008, 08:25 AM   #25
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by introuble View Post
I have no opinion on Slackware automation, I do not use Slackware, thanks for asking for my opinion though.
You're not a Slackware user so you apparently don't understand how we feel when our distro is panned by ignorant writers. You might become upset when and if people ridicule Debian or the maintainers of your OS.
I'm getting tired of reading reviews about Slackware from people who complain about mundane issues covered in the documentation.

Last edited by hitest; 05-08-2008 at 08:26 AM.
 
Old 05-08-2008, 10:40 AM   #26
titopoquito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by introuble View Post
Welcomed by who? It's like readers of this forum have some sort of say on what he puts on his website and on what he doesn't. If I want to create a website which says nothing more nor less than "The following distributions absolutely suck: <distribution list>", I'm free to do so.
Of course everyone is free to do this. And readers are free to state that you are wrong if you would post such nonsense. Freedom of speech is not a one way street.
The reviewer has installed Slackware in the past but has not read enough info to see what's new. If you use the "adduser" script you get info on how to enable the automounting very simply. The reviewer did not read it, but complains about it. Slackware is not only a distro but also a maintainer who tries to live from his work. Bad publicity from a sloppy review is something that others (that are very satisfied with Slackware) will rant about. I wonder why you are surprised about that?
 
Old 05-08-2008, 11:42 AM   #27
introuble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest
You might become upset when and if people ridicule Debian or the maintainers of your OS.
I'm simply puzzled. Where in the review did he ridicule Slackware or mr. Volkerding?

titopoquito: I have to admit I find it a bit amusing people are taking it so personally. "such nonsense" you say; it's as if the guy said something preposterous in his article; something he should be punished for even.

Quote:
Of course everyone is free to do this. And readers are free to state that you are wrong if you would post such nonsense. Freedom of speech is not a one way street.
I suppose it was H_TeXMeX_H again who said:
Quote:
stop reviewing Slackware without reading a little bit beforehand
That's why I've said the guy is free to write whatever he wants on his website.

Quote:
Slackware is not only a distro but also a maintainer who tries to live from his work.
Are you saying people are jumping up and down out of solidarity for Patrick? (This is just a clarification request, nothing more/less)

Quote:
I wonder why you are surprised about that?
I'm not sure when I've expressed surprise towards the various rants.
 
Old 05-08-2008, 11:45 AM   #28
onebuck
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Hi,

I think this thread is very healthy for the SlackwareŽ family. The thread feedback is good. I just think that 'Maurice Lawles' is another shock reviewer. Just trying to build up his points by knocking down a known leading distribution such as SlackwareŽ.

Quote:
excerpt from Slackware 11;
Most Annoying Feature:

My biggest complaint with Slackware is still the maintainer himself. Patrick *is* Slackware. There is no democracy in this distribution. It is in every way *his* project, and he runs it as such. He has every right to do so, but I also reserve every right to lambast him and use a different distribution when I don't agree with the choices he makes.

He doesn't include any scripts that might make using his system easier for those of us not interested in dicking around with text files every hour of every day, nor does he seem to understand the idea of NEW kernels. These two make Slackware a distro I not so much despise, but still avoid at all costs.

Yes, yes, I'm sure if you're a Slackware fan and haven't been so offended you kept reading this rant, you'll probably argue that the very things I point out as flaws are things you consider boons. Thus demonstrates the importance of personal perception. When I can't do work on it, it's not worth my time. I'm glad it works for you.
Who's it best for?

Like kernel 2.4? Still play music on LPs? Don't mind having to do everything manually? Try Slackware. Everyone else should stay away, and I dare say encourage everyone you know to do so as well.

Slackware is designed for the uber geek. Since I left college I am no longer a part of that crowd. I look for functional, relatively pretty desktop operating systems to do what I want. Slackware does not fit this bill, nor do I really think it ever will.

Slackware 11
description:
Grandfather distro showing its age
CDs:
2-6 (or 1 DVD)
estimated install time:
15-30 mins
rating:
Quote:
excerpt from Slackware 12.1 review;

Conclusion:

Aside from the whole having to mount everything by hand issue, I didn't have much trouble with this version of Slackware. It's definitely not for the uninitiated, however.

It still requires manual partitioning, manual user setup, and manual installing/uninstalling of packages once the initial install is done (unless you download a package manager of some sort). I don't see any of these things changing any time soon.

I'm revisiting this last paragraph since my original posting. Thanks to the help of some kind Slackers (not all of them gave rude feedback) I was able to address my main issue with Slack 12.1 and get mounting to work. It now meets my criteria for my desktop box.

I can use it offline, do work, listen to music and play 3D games. I can't give it a full 4 tuxes, but I can say it's at least as useful (if not more so) than the latest version of Ubuntu as far as my home desktop.
He does tend to correct himself when duly pointed in the right direction. If you read both the above quotes and dissect them you will see that he indeed is not objective nor able to make a intelligent observation without his bias coming through.

He is one of the crowd that will never understand the meaning nor the idea of how a true OS should work. He needs to be coddled and hand held. Just google his name and read some of the other things he has posted. When he is in his abode then comfort sets in and his writing(s) seem to reflect that.
 
Old 05-08-2008, 12:07 PM   #29
titopoquito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by introuble View Post
titopoquito: I have to admit I find it a bit amusing people are taking it so personally. "such nonsense" you say; it's as if the guy said something preposterous in his article; something he should be punished for even.

I suppose it was H_TeXMeX_H again who said:

That's why I've said the guy is free to write whatever he wants on his website.

Are you saying people are jumping up and down out of solidarity for Patrick? (This is just a clarification request, nothing more/less)

I'm not sure when I've expressed surprise towards the various rants.
Hi introuble,

with "such nonsense" I was talking about your example, setting up a blog and writing "these distros absolutely suck: ..." (EDIT: without in-depth reviews that give a good reason for thinking so). I didn't mean the review with that.

No, I don't think all people are jumping up and down because of that. That is some part of my personal opinion, highly idiosyncratic it may be To me it's an important point, maybe because I have my own business and it's important for *me* that there is no bad talk about me and my work around.

Maybe I'm wrong about the surprise. I just was thinking: wow, he must be surprised about the posts if he jumps in in the discussion, if he is not even a Slackware user. My mind reading skills are not at their best I guess or you are wearing a tin foil hat
 
Old 05-08-2008, 12:31 PM   #30
introuble
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I visit various distribution-specific sub-forums because every now and then a user might ask a question which can be answered by someone who is not currently a user of that distribution. [+ I used to be a Slackware user. Like the distribution, like other distributions too; just don't need Slack atm.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by titopoquito View Post
My mind reading skills are not at their best I guess or you are wearing a tin foil hat
Heh, don't be ridiculous; I'm simply very skilled in occlumency.
 
  


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