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Old 04-10-2013, 09:26 AM   #16
hpfeil
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Like emacs, if you take the time to learn it, Dr. Knuth's TeX is a powerful tool. It's not a WYSIWYG gui, you just type away, then go back and put in the TeX stuff. I don't know of any other way to produce a camera-ready document that you can compress and email to a journal publisher. Postscript, PDF, LibreOffice, each have their place, TeX does not replace them. However, none of them produce such high-quality typesetting content with "cross-referencing, tables and figures, page layout and bibliographies."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeX
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX[\url]

Please consider replacing TeX with Dr. Knuth's revolutionary iTeX
http://river-valley.tv/media/conferences/tug-2010/Don-Knuth/
 
Old 04-10-2013, 04:20 PM   #17
wailingwailer
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I'm sort of new to TeX, but the only shortcoming I've run into with the existing TeTeX package on Slackware is not having the IEEEtran.cls package built-in, which is a standard built-in document class in every other TeX installation I've seen. But, for those who need it, it's pretty small and simple to install. TeTeX has not been maintained for 7 years, and I use it regularly. In fact, I learned how to write documents with LaTeX using this unmaintained version. However, I expect that compatibility problems with ctan will crop up and become more common as the rest of the TeX community continues to move on while TeTeX stagnates. I'm a little concerned that the TeX community will become excessively homogenized and become more and more TeXLive and *buntu oriented.

I like the idea of a minimal TeXLive install if such a thing is possible, but I'm with Pat on holding off due to bloat. I run a local slackware mirror for my home LAN (slow internet connection), so I appreciate Pat's efforts to keep small source and package trees. The bloat problem with TeXLive is pretty serious imo and needs to be solved by their project. I haven't looked around at other distros to see how they split up the packages, but I imagine there must be _some_ way to build TeXLive with a minimal set of features and at a reasonable size.
 
Old 04-10-2013, 05:13 PM   #18
michaelslack
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Pat Volkerding's original quote:
Quote:
I'd like to find a way to update the components that make up teTeX to make things a little more modern
I think the best way to do this would be to replace the existing teTeX in slackware with the ``teTeX scheme'' from TeX Live. If the following quote from rpm.pbone.net is true:

Quote:
One of the "schemes" available when installing TeX live provides a configuration very close to that of the old teTeX, but using modern versions of programs and packages.
...then this sounds precisely what Pat is looking for, at least in terms of content. I wonder if licensing permits shipping a reduced TeX Live source (enough to generate/build the teTeX scheme) with slackware? If so then a script which ``trims'' the source could also be shipped (maybe in /extra, possibly along with Robby's full texlive slackbuild) so a user could re-create everything, if they wanted to (or do a full texlive install), by downloading the full source separately.

Michael
 
Old 04-10-2013, 05:26 PM   #19
volkerdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelslack View Post
I think the best way to do this would be to replace the existing teTeX in slackware with the ``teTeX scheme'' from TeX Live. If the following quote from rpm.pbone.net is true:

[...]

...then this sounds precisely what Pat is looking for, at least in terms of content. I wonder if licensing permits shipping a reduced TeX Live source (enough to generate/build the teTeX scheme) with slackware? If so then a script which ``trims'' the source could also be shipped (maybe in /extra, possibly along with Robby's full texlive slackbuild) so a user could re-create everything, if they wanted to (or do a full texlive install), by downloading the full source separately.
I spent about a month trying to do exactly that, which is why I say (from a position of some experience) that I think it would be easier to update the old teTeX than to try to go that route. I'm keenly aware that it would be creating a new TeX distribution -- no surprise there. But trimming down texlive and the sources seems like it would be far more complex. Not that upgrading teTeX would be simple, but I think it would be a comparatively easier path.
 
Old 04-10-2013, 06:08 PM   #20
michaelslack
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Wow, I had no idea that trimming down the TeX Live source would be so complex, although I guess it comes as no surprise.

I guess a third option is to just include all the source but package only the teTeX scheme: the source files linked to from Robby's slackbuild total about 1.5GB. It's a lot I guess, although already we are up to 2 DVDs for the full distribution, indeed even with another 1.5GB it would still fit on 2 DVDs.

It's far from ideal but perhaps compared to putting together a whole new TeX distribution...

Michael
 
Old 04-10-2013, 06:57 PM   #21
volkerdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelslack View Post
I guess a third option is to just include all the source but package only the teTeX scheme: the source files linked to from Robby's slackbuild total about 1.5GB. It's a lot I guess, although already we are up to 2 DVDs for the full distribution, indeed even with another 1.5GB it would still fit on 2 DVDs.

It's far from ideal but perhaps compared to putting together a whole new TeX distribution...
Adding 1.5GB of sources is not an option. The retail DVD is a double sided disc, and the sources are already split between the two sides to make them fit.
 
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:39 PM   #22
eloi
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Avoiding Dependencies :)

I've sent yesterday an email to a texlive developer. I've explained him that I am a latex user but I am not familiarized with its development and packaging and asked him about why he think the resultant packages on distributions were so huge.

I will not say his name or reproduce here his textual answer because I respect privacy. In resume besides accusing me to insult volunteers, insulting me, calling me troll, ignorant etc., he said that his fresh installed OS is 10G size just on packages (justifying the texlive size).

Well, this is my desktop:

Code:
morlock@rex:$ df -h
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1              20G  5.6G   14G  30% /
tmpfs                 1.9G     0  1.9G   0% /lib/init/rw
udev                  1.9G  188K  1.9G   1% /dev
tmpfs                 1.9G     0  1.9G   0% /dev/shm
/dev/sda3             120G   58G   56G  51% /home
Just a /home separate partition. The root partition (including the /usr with all the software) occupies 5.6G. I bet I can do with my 5.6G anything (and more) that guy do with 10G of default installation + the rest of software he needs.

It's easy to see why this gentleman doesn't see an issue in TeXLive size.

I am seriously thinking in transcribe my three novels (more than 500 pages) to Groff.
 
Old 04-11-2013, 04:34 PM   #23
edorig
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Personally, I have not had to replace teTeX with TeXLive on Slackware. My only problem has been with some
beamer classes that are present in TeXLive but not teTeX. I think there are two separate issues.
The first one is the TeX/LaTeX software from teTeX. Is it becoming obsolete (for instance pdflatex may not
be keeping up with the enhancements of the PDF file format) ? Is new software being added
to TeXLive to support more languages / produce TeX output in new formats (say DejaVu) ?
If yes, then it will become necessary in the future to upgrade that software, and the question is whether
that can be done outside of the full TeXLive.

The second issue is with the TeX/LaTeX macros that are part of TeXLive. Many of them seem
unnecessary. To give some examples, there are quite a few style files for theses (adftathesis, afthesis, fbithesis, gatech-thesis, psu-thesis etc...) articles in scientific journals (revtex, achemso,elsarticle,...) or vitae for
students at a particular engineering school (ESIEEcv...). In all these cases, one would prefer anyway the
latest style files provided by the journal or the school rather than rely on the version distributed with TeXLive which might be obsolete or buggy. Users without root access will in fact have to install the correct package in
their home directory, and modify the TEXINPUTS variable to be sure that the correct file is found first, resulting
in a waste of disk space.

There are some style files that might be more useful (say karnaugh for Karnaugh tables, ytableau for Young tableaus, dyntree for Dynkin diagrams, steinmetz for Steinmetz notation of complex numbers) and are not in teTeX, but they could be installed from CTAN by the users who need them.

To sum up, unless the software in teTeX is becoming obsolete, it is better to keep teTeX and add only a few useful/improved packages taken directly from CTAN.
 
Old 04-11-2013, 06:12 PM   #24
amani
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
I think the main question is: Is the teTeX shipped with Slackware still in use today?
No, it is not suitable for any production use.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 08:02 AM   #25
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Quote:
No, it is not suitable for any production use.
That is a drop dead statement that I would argue is wrong. I am currently using teTeX and it is fulfilling all my requirements. By design, teTeX was meant to have longevity and I still find it viable.

Please expand on your reasons for stating this.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 08:24 AM   #26
fsauer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allend View Post
That is a drop dead statement that I would argue is wrong. I am currently using teTeX and it is fulfilling all my requirements. By design, teTeX was meant to have longevity and I still find it viable.

Please expand on your reasons for stating this.
I am answering with my reasons. TeX has evolved a lot in the last years. Especially font handling and utf-8 handling (pdftex, luatex), as well as significant changes related to slides (beamer) are noteworthy. If simple upgrading of a few packages would do the job, I am sure someone would have done that.

As for your using of tetex, this is possible, no doubt. One of my friends is using 2.09 and is (almost) happy with it.

As always, just my 2 eurocents...

Franz
 
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:28 PM   #27
qweasd
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RE: tetex use

Quote:
Originally Posted by amani View Post
No, it is not suitable for any production use.
I disagree. Even though installing texlive is the first thing I do on my laptop, I have to admit that virtually all of my papers build just fine in tetex after I replace mathdesign with amssymb.
 
Old 04-18-2013, 12:16 PM   #28
amani
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qweasd View Post
I disagree. Even though installing texlive is the first thing I do on my laptop, I have to admit that virtually all of my papers build just fine in tetex after I replace mathdesign with amssymb.
AMS-latex was updated last in 2011.

Classes have also changed: ftp://ftp.ams.org/pub/tex/amslatex/classes/diffs-c.txt

Which document classes did you use?

lncs, fundam, beamer, ieee, ...?
 
Old 04-18-2013, 06:55 PM   #29
qweasd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amani View Post
AMS-latex was updated last in 2011.

Classes have also changed: ftp://ftp.ams.org/pub/tex/amslatex/classes/diffs-c.txt

Which document classes did you use?

lncs, fundam, beamer, ieee, ...?
All I ever use is amsart and amsbook.
 
  


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