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Old 02-13-2014, 11:43 AM   #16
vik
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EDIT: reformed original post. Ignore this post.

Last edited by vik; 02-13-2014 at 12:05 PM.
 
Old 02-13-2014, 12:11 PM   #17
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vik View Post
So if PV decides to stay the course against systemd, what will he do...
You will know if/when he so decides. The answer to the next question: "when will he decide?" is: "when he will be ready "
 
Old 02-13-2014, 12:24 PM   #18
qweasd
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Please forgive me my ignorance, as well as the needless extension of yet another systemd thread, but shouldn't it be possible to start systemd so that hard dependencies (such as udev) are satisfied, and then have systemd launch the classic init?
 
Old 02-13-2014, 12:33 PM   #19
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qweasd View Post
Please forgive me my ignorance, as well as the needless extension of yet another systemd thread, but shouldn't it be possible to start systemd so that hard dependencies (such as udev) are satisfied, and then have systemd launch the classic init?
No. Because systemd run everything in its very own cgroup container, so, launching another init from systemd pid1, you'll end in something similar with a LXC container.
 
Old 02-14-2014, 11:48 AM   #20
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Hmm ... I think it might soon get harder and harder to hold out. It since looks like Ubuntu just folded as well. That doesn't leave many distros not on the systemd bandwagon. Just us and Gentoo? Or have I missed others?

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316
 
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:34 PM   #21
lems
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruario View Post
Hmm ... I think it might soon get harder and harder to hold out. It since looks like Ubuntu just folded as well. That doesn't leave many distros not on the systemd bandwagon. Just us and Gentoo? Or have I missed others?

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316
CRUX developer Fredrik Rinnestam also expressed that he is against systemd: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux...ux.devel/2292/ (It's from 2012, though.)
 
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:33 PM   #22
cwizardone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruario View Post
Hmm ... I think it might soon get harder and harder to hold out. It since looks like Ubuntu just folded as well. That doesn't leave many distros not on the systemd bandwagon. Just us and Gentoo? Or have I missed others?

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316
So... where does that leave us? That is, what is the alternative? FreeBSD?
 
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:46 PM   #23
harryhaller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lems View Post
CRUX developer Fredrik Rinnestam also expressed that he is against systemd: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux...ux.devel/2292/ (It's from 2012, though.)
As did the members - in similar strong terms
 
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Old 02-14-2014, 03:15 PM   #24
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the kernel is all we really need
and the kernel has a rule that goes something like "don't break shit"
combined with the mentality of "every bug is of same importance" i don't think Linus will allow systemd devs to break the kernel (i know one tried)

also ofc, where there's a will there's a way
 
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Old 02-14-2014, 04:52 PM   #25
jtsn
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Originally Posted by genss View Post
the kernel is all we really need
Kernel plus Busybox - and you have what runs the majority of all Linux machines worldwide...
 
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:17 PM   #26
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Fortunately Slackware project does not suffer from similar BS like executive committee, regulations, voting, bigmouth promises like "guaranteed" release cycle you can "rely" on, big-corporate money back-up and arising own interests from etc.
Just the long-term almost 10 years positive experience matters. The rest are just words, noise..

I didn't become involved in many endless debates about this RedHat's cancer. Yep, I don't like it and personally see no one serious reason which can justify so wide and deep system changes its adoption causes.

I'd wish Slackware would avoid it as far as all important upstream software included in distribution allows to be packaged without too much hassle.

This is a major intervention and for our business it does mean even to ditch Linux completely. Fortunately there are still free BSD systems, however narrower hardware support complicates things a bit for the lasting contracts but they are already being solved.

Last edited by dunric; 02-14-2014 at 10:21 PM.
 
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:29 PM   #27
moisespedro
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It seems they considered developing udev but only time will tell
Quote from Pat:

Quote:
"...Concerning systemd, I do like the idea of a faster boot time (obviously), but I also like controlling the startup of the system with shell scripts that are readable, and I'm guessing that's what most Slackware users prefer too. I don't spend all day rebooting my machine, and having looked at systemd config files it seems to me a very foreign way of controlling a system to me, and attempting to control services, sockets, devices, mounts, etc., all within one daemon flies in the face of the UNIX concept of doing one thing and doing it well. To the typical end user, if this results in a faster boot then mission accomplished. With udev being phased out in favor of systemd performing those tasks we'll have to make the decision at some point between whether we want to try to maintain udev ourselves, have systemd replace just udev's functions, or if we want the whole kit and caboodle...."
 
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:38 PM   #28
ReaperX7
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One thing I completely dislike about systemd is that literally it acts as a locked hypervisor to the GNU OS. There's no shell interaction with systemd at all because it's completely self-contained unlike every other init system out there that interacts with the system shell. There's near-zero administrator level inside of systemd unlike bsdinit, sysvinit, runit, s6, upstart or any other init system.

I think honestly people have gone insane over this software being viable. The guy from CRUX made a good hint. Mdev is a step back in time, but maybe that's what needs to be done. Maybe this is a metaphor and clear message to say in order to see where we stand, we have to take a step back to see not just our present but our future as well.

Maybe it's time those distributions that don't want systemd need to start working together.

Systemd reminds me of the question, if everyone jumps off the bridge to their deaths should you jump as well? The answer clearly... Is NO.

On the switching to *BSD argument, if you feel the need to do so, start learning now. Don't forget there's also Solaris, Illumos, and other UNIX branded distributions also.

Last edited by ReaperX7; 02-14-2014 at 11:52 PM.
 
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:41 AM   #29
ttk
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RHEL7 will have systemd, and it's made my RHEL/CentOS/ScientificLinux-using sysadmin friends grumpy. They don't want to talk about it, and they don't want to think about it, because they don't want to be "angry all the time" (an exact quote from one of them).

It's made me think this might be an opportunity for a Slackware-for-the-Datacenter project. Eventually some of these professionals are going to look around for viable systemd-free alternatives for their business. I don't think there currently are any. It would be very nice to have one to offer them.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 01:49 AM   #30
ReaperX7
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Offer Slackware you must young padawan! Then and only then a Jedi shall you be! Mmm!
 
  


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