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-   -   question for Slackware developers about systemd (http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/question-for-slackware-developers-about-systemd-4175494665/)

vik 02-12-2014 10:35 AM

question for Slackware developers about systemd
 
EDIT: removed speculation paragraph and reformed questions so they are more clear.

Assuming Slackware contines to pass on systemd, my questions are:

1) How do you propose to keep an updated udev? Lennart talks about preventing udev w/o systemd here: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...st/006066.html. Will you stay with udev-182, help with eudev, mdev, or possibly hotplug2?

2) consolekit. continue using the unmaintained version?

3) What is Slackware's plan of action if more developers decide to require the entire systemd stack? Not include packages that require systemd? Or see if there's a way to "emulate" systemd? One problem I see is if Lennart's kdbus implementation gets widely adopted.

For the record, I am against systemd for many reasons but that is a separate discussion. Thank you for your contribution to the Linux community.

brianL 02-12-2014 10:45 AM

See this thread:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ds-4175484413/

dugan 02-12-2014 10:54 AM

I'd hate to try to speak for Pat, but I'm pretty sure that the answers to all of these questions are "TBD."

angryfirelord 02-12-2014 10:54 AM

Quote:

What is Slackware's plan of action if more developers decide to require the entire systemd stack? Not include packages that require systemd?
The issue isn't that developers are requiring systemd, but that certain upstream components are being abandoned that are being picked up by the systemd developers. Gnome's possible systemd dependency is that the developers want to use logind. Right now, they use ConsoleKit, which was abandoned. There's a page on Debian's site that documents the dependencies of systemd: http://people.debian.org/~stapelberg...endencies.html

If systemd is a requirement, then it certainly doesn't mean the end of Slackware. There was a user who demonstrated it could already be done in one thread before it got derailed by the circlejerk. He provided Slackbuilds to test it out.

That said, waiting and listening is the best advice. systemd's ultimate test will be when RHEL 7 is released and it starts being used in the enterprise.

Didier Spaier 02-12-2014 10:58 AM

The LQ's search feature comes handy.

Here is is the list of results for the query "please Mrs. Computer kindly display one URL for each thread in Slackware forum and its sub-forums whose title includes the word systemd"

Woodsman 02-12-2014 11:02 AM

The Debian vote was based on false premises: systemd vs. upstart. The premises should have been systemd, upstart, or remain with system V.

vik 02-12-2014 11:06 AM

I guess my post is misunderstood. I'm not asking if it's possible to use systemd with Slackware, I'm asking if Slackware's developers will decide to integrate it at some point or continue to go against mainstream. Are they willing to help out with eudev or will they integrate mdev? If they do decide against systemd, that's good news for me personally.

genss 02-12-2014 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vik (Post 5116302)
I guess my post is misunderstood. I'm not asking if it's possible to use systemd with Slackware, I'm asking if Slackware's developers will decide to integrate it at some point or continue to go against mainstream. Are they willing to help out with eudev or will they integrate mdev? If they do decide against systemd, that's good news for me personally.

slackware as i seen it has always been about good, clean, proven software
so i leave it to you to speculate if systemd fits there

only PV can tell, and i trust whatever he decides
the thoughts of slackers all around have been stated already by them so..

Didier Spaier 02-12-2014 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vik (Post 5116302)
I'm asking if Slackware's developers will decide to integrate it at some point or continue to go against mainstream. Are they willing to help out with eudev or will they integrate mdev?

As has been stated previously many times in other threads on this topic Slackware is managed by only one person, Mr Patrick J. Volkerding, who usually doesn't make public his plans in advance.

In other words, IMO the only place where you'll get an accurate information is here.

ReaperX7 02-12-2014 06:21 PM

ConsoleKit might not be maintained, but since it's abandoned anyone could still maintain the project with patches or even take over and keep development going.

If anything... yes it's all To Be Determined. Slackware uses a very simplified and easy to manage INIT system based off BSDInit and SysVInit concepts. I don't think Patrick is going to just abandon it outright. Whatever the course of action is, Patrick will do his homework, thoroughly research things, redevelop a lot ahead of time, thoroughly test it, and then repeat as needed until it's perfect.

Remember Slackware doesn't just outright adopt things that are unproven and still problematic, and things that do get too problematic are quickly dumped off.

jtsn 02-12-2014 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vik (Post 5116287)
So that is another major distribution that has decided to go with systemd

I like this well-known phrase: "Think different!" Slackware can benefit from that decision.

Also Unix is not restricted to Linux.

ttk 02-13-2014 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReaperX7 (Post 5116537)
Whatever the course of action is, Patrick will do his homework, thoroughly research things, redevelop a lot ahead of time, thoroughly test it, and then repeat as needed until it's perfect.

My thoughts exactly. I like to think that, maybe, he's kicking the tires on udev alternatives during this long quiet after the 14.1 release. Though, udev-182 has been pretty good so far. Supposedly bugs have been found in it, but I haven't seen reports here of anyone actually running afoul of those bugs. We could do worse than to stick with udev-182 for another year or more while pondering alternatives.

ReaperX7 02-13-2014 03:54 AM

As far as udev alternatives go eudev is still developed by Gentoo but I haven't heard how far along its development is, but the github was updated a few days ago.

There's also mdev as well used by Busybox. Now here's the thing with mdev, it's not as comprehensive and it's mostly for embedded systems, but it could show promise, though I think to use mdev, you still need backup tools like Hal, hal-info, and maybe hotplug to fill in the rest.

There's also the hotplug2 project used by OpenWRT. Don't know much about it except its a lightweight udev alternative.

I haven't seen anyone attempting to port these to Slackware yet so unless otherwise, someone could port these to Slackware and help thing along.

Didier Spaier 02-13-2014 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReaperX7 (Post 5116747)
[..] someone could port these to Slackware and help thing along.

As the OP already stated, his question is not about someone but about what Slackware developers intend to do. So your quoted post is off topic IMO.

hpfeil 02-13-2014 10:26 AM

Point of Order: Logical Fallacy, Argumentum ad Populum, aka Argumentum ad Numerum

What is the point of trying to prove a fallacious premise?


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