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Old 04-30-2013, 02:06 AM   #1
bartgymnast
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Python 3 and Wayland


I am making this thread to see how people think about having Python3 and Wayland in testing for slackware.

Python 3 is now at version 3.3.1 and more programs are support python 3 in favor of python 2
Python 3 can co-exist with python 2 in 1 system, maybe it is handy to have both python 3 and python 2 in slackware.

I have been following the development for KDE, Gnome, Enlightment, XFCE.

3 out of this 4 will be supporting wayland in either their next release or the release after that.

Enlightment is completly switching to wayland, while Gnome takes about 2-3 releases to switch to wayland.
KDE is going to start supporting both wayland and X.
XFCE has had no talks about switching or even development.

The development of Wayland has seen lots of improvements over the last year and is considered ready by KDE and Gnome and Enlightment to start transition of their desktop to this.

Would it be handy to have Wayland in /testing for this ?
 
Old 04-30-2013, 04:23 AM   #2
abesirovic1
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I don't know if it would be handy but I'd be willing to test run it.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 09:34 AM   #3
allend
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I think that Wayland has a few more hurdles to get over before it will challenge Xorg as a display server.

Comment by Aaron Seigo here http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/03/...n-mir-wayland/
Quote:
x.org requires an “x driver” which is something pretty specific to X.

systems like Wayland use the openGL stack for the GPU directly. the catch is that the openGL stack needs to expose the features that Wayland requires (e.g. sharable buffers), which not all of the binary blobs currently do.
I, for one, prefer the nVidia blob to the nouveau driver. Wayland will always be hobbled without support from GPU manufacturers.

Quote:
KDE is going to start supporting both wayland and X.
Start, yes. They are still looking at a display manager. http://aseigo.blogspot.com.au/2013/0...kspaces-2.html

Wayland? Maybe in 1..3..5.. years, but not now.
 
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:17 AM   #4
Mark Pettit
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Sadly, I think your view that more programs support Python 3 (than Python 2) is way way WAY off the mark. Whilst I personally think that Python 3 was the right thing for Python to do, it will still take a long time before we are all converted. Again, I would love for Python 3 to be the "default" in Slackware, but prudence says that Slackware must do what is the most rock-solid. And for now, and I suspect at least another 18 months (or more) Python 2 is it. Nothing to stop you from adding Python 3 from SBO (or maybe extra/testing ?), but when you type "python" on the command line and hit enter, I expect Python 2.x.y to run !

[oops - I never saw your request for this in "testing" - I interpreted it as to the "main"]

Last edited by Mark Pettit; 04-30-2013 at 11:21 AM.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 11:20 AM   #5
dugan
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Having Python 3 in /testing isn't very useful unless the Python libraries that need to be built from C source code (like PyQt) get built for it too.

If Python 3 gets included, it should be part of core Slackware, and Python 2 should be moved to /pasture.

Last edited by dugan; 04-30-2013 at 11:35 AM.
 
Old 04-30-2013, 11:31 AM   #6
H_TeXMeX_H
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I am against both of these additions. If you need them, I recommend a more experimental distribution.

From what I know, python 3 is not used by anything (except the rather useless mplayer2). Wayland is something experimental and with no clear benefit to date over Xorg.
 
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:07 AM   #7
bartgymnast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Pettit View Post
Sadly, I think your view that more programs support Python 3 (than Python 2) is way way WAY off the mark. Whilst I personally think that Python 3 was the right thing for Python to do, it will still take a long time before we are all converted. Again, I would love for Python 3 to be the "default" in Slackware, but prudence says that Slackware must do what is the most rock-solid. And for now, and I suspect at least another 18 months (or more) Python 2 is it. Nothing to stop you from adding Python 3 from SBO (or maybe extra/testing ?), but when you type "python" on the command line and hit enter, I expect Python 2.x.y to run !

[oops - I never saw your request for this in "testing" - I interpreted it as to the "main"]
Sorry, I wrongly explained myself here.
I ment that programs are starting to make the switch from python 2 to python 3.
and yes it is a long way to go before all programs have made this switch.
Python 3 can be installed next to python 2, and can be called python3 for example
Python 2 should be still the default.
thats why in /testing yes.
 
Old 05-02-2013, 02:12 AM   #8
ponce
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speaking personally, I've nothing against the addition of python3 as /usr/bin/python3 (as the slackbuild from SBo already does): it lives nicely together with the 2.7 version and to say it all I'm already using it with the new lxc (that actually needs it, together with lua).
 
Old 05-02-2013, 02:27 AM   #9
bartgymnast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allend View Post
I think that Wayland has a few more hurdles to get over before it will challenge Xorg as a display server.

Comment by Aaron Seigo here http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/03/...n-mir-wayland/

I, for one, prefer the nVidia blob to the nouveau driver. Wayland will always be hobbled without support from GPU manufacturers.


Start, yes. They are still looking at a display manager. http://aseigo.blogspot.com.au/2013/0...kspaces-2.html

Wayland? Maybe in 1..3..5.. years, but not now.
Well Allend.
This is the status of KDE 5 (QT5)
http://vizzzion.org/blog/2013/01/the...-and-plasma-2/

As you can read there, QT5 will be usable on top of wayland and X.
and they have finished a few parts of the rewriting already.

The blogpost that you showed was a reaction on ubuntu's Mir.

As for Enlightment (E17 already works on wayland)
and they are planning for future releases to only support wayland.

https://phab.enlightenment.org/phame...cking_wayland/


For driver status:

The driver situation for Wayland is as follows:

Open-source drivers work fine (Intel, AMD, Nouveau)
Gallium drivers work ok
Android drivers can be made to work with an NDIS-like wrapper (libhybris)
Nvidia binary drivers do not work currently.

X compatibility

X clients are still supported under Wayland via a 'rootless' X server that translates X windows into Wayland surfaces. xwayland is such an X server.
 
Old 05-02-2013, 10:02 AM   #10
allend
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Quote:
Nvidia binary drivers do not work currently.
So we agree.
Quote:
As for Enlightment (E17 already works on wayland)
and they are planning for future releases to only support wayland.
Last I saw, E17 is not part of Slackware.
Quote:
The blogpost that you showed was a reaction on ubuntu's Mir.
Yes, but the point about binary blobs still applies.
Quote:
Open-source drivers work fine (Intel, AMD, Nouveau)
Gallium drivers work ok
Android drivers can be made to work with an NDIS-like wrapper (libhybris)
So?. GPU manufacturers make the hardware. Their IP means that they write the best drivers. The nouveau driver is not up to the standard of the nVidia blob.
Quote:
This is the status of KDE 5 (QT5)
Thanks for the link. I believe this comment from there reinforces my point that introducing Wayland into Slackware at this time would be premature. http://vizzzion.org/blog/2013/01/the...#comment-17341
 
  


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