LinuxQuestions.org
Share your knowledge at the LQ Wiki.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Distributions > Slackware
User Name
Password
Slackware This Forum is for the discussion of Slackware Linux.

Notices

Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 05-22-2013, 12:57 PM   #436
thirdm
Member
 
Registered: May 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Distribution: Slackware,OpenBSD
Posts: 49

Rep: Reputation: Disabled

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpfeil View Post
Aaah! The thread that wouldn't die!!

Rather than adding to Slackware, why not think about what you would omit? You can always go to http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/, build a base system, then http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/ to add whatever you want. There is a source directory at http://mirrors.slackware.com/slackware containing the build scripts for each Slackware package, you could add slackware packages by building them from source. Start with the package manager. Those files in /var/adm/packages is an easy way to keep track of updates. For me, suffering from occasional bouts of congenital indolence as I oftentimes do, the tireless underpaid folks helping Maestro Volkerding make sure everything plays well with others before releasing a package.
When I tried LFS it was less of a good learning exercise than I thought it would be. The trouble is that the long series of steps required for bootstrapping the compiler, for instance, and getting each step exactly right becomes such a burden that you lack time or energy to read the documentation and source as you go and really understand what you're doing. There's no getting around the fact that a large amount of knowledge and work is latent in a GNU/Linux distribution (I would say larger than one person's mind, but I guess you can point to people who would prove that wrong, maybe). If you want to economize, you must pick your spots, which isn't possible if you have to do everything (hey, why stop at typing the commands, perhaps you'd learn even more if you typed in every line of C). You can fake it with a rote recipe, but the experience is less than optimal, I think. And as you're doing it, what machine are you using day to day? Best to use the machine you're doing your building experiments on to keep yourself honest in the exercise. For that you need the basics (web browser, emacs, X) in place immediately. Better to peal the onion from the outside.


Quote:
The kernel likes to run programs that were build using the same version of gcc and associated libraries that were used to compile the kernel.
This isn't true is it? I haven't been in the Linux world for awhile until recently installing Slackware, but on BSDs it's routine to have newer versions of gcc than the system compiler, e.g. to deal with C++ code bases that require newer features or whatever. If I'm not mistaken, FreeBSD's packages now have a mix of those compiled with gcc and CLANG/lvwm. Wouldn't most application libraries only interface with glibc at their lowest level, glibc interfacing with the system call layer (kernel interface)? Or even if not, how unstable is Linux's system call ABI? Does it change from version to version and is it in any way compiler dependent? What, you enter the kernel via some kind of interrupt or syscall instruction that jumps you to some offset with the code to run after changing privilege modes and preserving user state. What here would look different to the program compiled with gcc 4.8 vs. kernel compiled with 4.7 here? There's something funny with the kernel headers, IIRC, but how many programs use those?
 
Click here to see the post LQ members have rated as the most helpful post in this thread.
Old 05-22-2013, 07:38 PM   #437
ttk
Member
 
Registered: May 2012
Location: Sebastopol, CA
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 175
Blog Entries: 10

Rep: Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdm View Post
And as you're doing it, what machine are you using day to day? Best to use the machine you're doing your building experiments on to keep yourself honest in the exercise.
I wholeheartedly agree. Dogfooding is, imo, a necessary component of any open source project. One of the reasons Linux, GCC, and many others have been so successful is because they are developed by the people who use them.

Though, I wouldn't put too much of a priority on making the X server work, unless it's a core feature of the distribution. One can always run the applications on one computer and run X on another to handle the UI.
 
Old 05-26-2013, 10:01 AM   #438
leeeoooooo
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2009
Distribution: Slackware 14.0
Posts: 104

Rep: Reputation: 18
Just when I'm thinking Slackware is already all I could ask for, Pat goes and floors me with new additions to "current"...

OpenCOBOL?!?! (Damn, I now wish I hadn't thrown away all those old COBOL programming books)

Tonight I'm going to party like it's 1984!!


(At my age, I don't need to tell prospective employers that my COBOL programming skills are "rusty.")

Thank you very much Pat!

Last edited by leeeoooooo; 05-28-2013 at 07:51 PM.
 
Old 05-26-2013, 11:15 AM   #439
rg3
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2007
Distribution: Slackware Linux
Posts: 500

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
I attended LinuxCon Europe last year and H. Peter Anvin's talk "Don't play dice with random numbers" in particular. One of the recommendations was to have rngd enabled and activated as earlier as possible in the boot process. rngd is currently not shipped with Slackware. Maybe it's worth adding it, but I haven't looked at the details.
 
Old 05-31-2013, 09:42 AM   #440
syncBQ
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18

Rep: Reputation: 0
I would like to see full multimedia working after install (some of the patents have expired even in US).
Second, in extra I would like to see build scripts for multilib gcc and glibc, and all the tool scripts for making compat32 pkgs.
 
Old 05-31-2013, 11:55 AM   #441
ryanpcmcquen
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2013
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 55

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Multilib is quite easy though, just run this command or set it as an alias as I do in the .bashrc I copy over on a fresh install.
Code:
alias slu32="cd && lftp -c 'open http://slackware.com/~alien/multilib/ ; mirror current' && cd current && upgradepkg --reinstall --install-new *.t?z && cd slackware64-compat32 && upgradepkg --install-new *-compat32/*.t?z && cd"
You, of course, would change 'current' to your version. ;-)

Last edited by ryanpcmcquen; 05-31-2013 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Formatting.
 
Old 05-31-2013, 02:11 PM   #442
Alien Bob
Slackware Contributor
 
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 5,175

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by syncBQ View Post
I would like to see full multimedia working after install (some of the patents have expired even in US).
Second, in extra I would like to see build scripts for multilib gcc and glibc, and all the tool scripts for making compat32 pkgs.
I take it that you are blind then?

Eric
 
Old 05-31-2013, 03:10 PM   #443
cmyster
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Israel
Distribution: Slackware64-current
Posts: 34

Rep: Reputation: 0
This tread is almost 2 years old, 2 versions and 30 pages long.
Some good suggestions have been implemented and new things are being suggested every now and then and as such, this thread is serving its purpose.
Perhaps some maintenance is in order though, as it is becoming hard to go over the posts.
As 14.1 is getting closer and will be ready in the future, perhaps it is time to start making a per version thread, where each such thread starts with a summarized post of what was suggested, and what went into the next (current) version.
 
Old 05-31-2013, 03:53 PM   #444
syncBQ
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18

Rep: Reputation: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob View Post
I take it that you are blind then?

Eric
I am not blind Eric. I am being responsible.

I am thanking you very much for putting the effort for providing multilib and the compat32 tools.

You provide ONLY the binaries for gcc-multilib and glibc-multilib but when questioned on how you compile them you evade by saying is a long process (which it is btw) and that I can compile the 2 components using the same binaries that none know how you build them. Slackware distribution comes with sources too and with slackbuilds for every software that we run and this makes it much more clean (or honest). I am not saying you are not honest: you need to prove it before I can use multilib in a production environment. I did offered my help but seen no reply.

We have not met, we do not know each other, we know just a nickname (that is very established in the community). A rhetoric question: what if I (an unknown person) would have made available the multilib gcc and libc would have people trusted me?
Nevertheless, I am using your multilib binaries back home where I have nothing to loose.
 
Old 05-31-2013, 04:09 PM   #445
ryanpcmcquen
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2013
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 55

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Alien Bob isn't just a nicknamed person. As far as I know he is part of the core Slackware team.

In fact, Eric was almost single-handedly responsible for the 64-bit version of Slackware. Who could be more qualified than him to handle the multilib stuff?

There's a great interview here: http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7502/

Furthermore, you can find his build scripts here:

http://slackware.com/~alien/multilib/source/
 
2 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-31-2013, 04:24 PM   #446
syncBQ
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18

Rep: Reputation: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanpcmcquen View Post
Alien Bob isn't just a nicknamed person. As far as I know he is part of the core Slackware team.

In fact, Eric was almost single-handedly responsible for the 64-bit version of Slackware. Who could be more qualified than him to handle the multilib stuff?
He provided slackbuilds in the x86_64 release for all the packages. Why not for this too?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanpcmcquen View Post
There's a great interview here: http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7502/

Furthermore, you can find his build scripts here:

http://slackware.com/~alien/multilib/source/
Have you look at least at the date of those slackbuilds or better have you tried to run them?
 
Old 05-31-2013, 04:58 PM   #447
ryanpcmcquen
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2013
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 55

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by syncBQ View Post
Have you look at least at the date of those slackbuilds or better have you tried to run them?
The one for 14.0 is from July 2012 and the -current one is from April 2013. Seems pretty recent to me. Am I missing something?
 
Old 05-31-2013, 06:19 PM   #448
syncBQ
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18

Rep: Reputation: 0
ryanpcmcquen it is clear to me that you do not know what I am talking about. I already said what you posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by syncBQ View Post
I can compile the 2 components using the same binaries that none know how you build them.
Explanation: in order to produce the multilib variant from the original ones multiple intermediate gcc and glibc must be produced. If you do not know how that intermediate was built then, the end product is questionable.

Last edited by syncBQ; 05-31-2013 at 06:22 PM.
 
Old 05-31-2013, 07:24 PM   #449
Alien Bob
Slackware Contributor
 
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 5,175

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
I do not know what your problem is syncBQ. I provide ALL the scripts that I use to create the multilib versions of gcc, glibc and the conversion tools to create the compat32 packages.
If your desire is to build a multilib glibc and gcc from scratch and fail doing so, that is your loss.

Have you ever tried compiling Slackware-current from scratch? I mean, REALLY from scratch. Good luck with it, I did that twice, once for my x86_64 port (which is now Slackware64) and then again for my ARM port. It is possible, but not a trivial business, and I DO NOT offer a recipe for from-scratch builds of Slackware either. Nor does Pat. Does that make hime as dishonest as I am in your eyes?

I build my next multilib packages using the previous package. You can do that too. You can try updating my gcc-static.SlackBuild if that fails to work for you on SLackware-current. I have been there, done that and do not feel the need to keep that script updated for kids like you.

If you are brave enough you install Slackware64 13.0, then bootstrap your first multilib packages on that using the scripts and the README I have available, and then keep upgrading all the way to Slackware-current, recompiling multilib packages as you go along. I have no interest in the outcome, good luck with it.

Eric
 
5 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-31-2013, 11:03 PM   #450
ttk
Member
 
Registered: May 2012
Location: Sebastopol, CA
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 175
Blog Entries: 10

Rep: Reputation: 85
Interesting .. I've always wondered about the slackware team's development methodology. Thank you for the insight, AlienBob.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
slackbuild textlive on slackware 13 missing texmf tree balamkej Slackware 4 01-21-2010 03:19 PM
A script that could mirror slackware tree from multiple servers grissiom Slackware 8 11-21-2009 07:05 PM
suggestions on family tree programs and..... Chris106 Linux - General 2 10-22-2008 07:54 AM
Linux Family Tree -- Where Slackware Fits unixfool Slackware 16 04-23-2008 11:47 PM
Slackware 9.1 tree/slapt-get question 187807 Slackware 3 02-20-2004 06:36 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:16 AM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration