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Old 03-07-2013, 11:20 PM   #271
allend
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ffmpeg is a classic example of the problem with hosting binaries. Due to copyright issues, a complete ffmpeg binary cannot be hosted or distributed from slackware.com.
There are also issues with optional functionality in programs. If you host a binary for, say qemu-kvm, should it be built with spice support? This can be useful, but not required in many implementations.

I never buy the argument that Slackware should be more like distro xyz. Slackware is Slackware. If you want the features of distro xyz, then go and use it. There are many Slackware spin-offs that strive to deal with perceived problems with user friendliness in Slackware.
 
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:56 AM   #272
solarfields
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Quote:
New users don't know how to build packages yet they want and need additional software.
we can argue that new users don't know how to use slackpkg to install packages. Slackpkg does not resolve dependencies, however there is detailed dependencies information at SlackBuilds.org. And there are third party tools to automate or semi-automate the whole process.

Quote:
Multiplicity. People tends to reinvent the wheel instead of mutualizing.
Excuse me? What I like about SBo is that it aims to become the unified place for SlackBuild scripts. Even Patrick Volkerding recommended it when a new version of Slackware was released.

Quote:
Just looking at the E17 SBo slackbuilds, started in 2010. Seems the authors didn't bother to google before starting as I provide e17 slackbuilds (and packages) since 2005. Nobody contacted me. I have commit access to the E17 code and already used it to make things working better on Slackware.
Why don't _you_ contact the maintainer of E17 SlackBuilds and offer help?

Quote:
Time. Slackware is not Gentoo. Slackware is about control. You can compile your own packages shouldn't mean that you have to do it every time.
What about time? For the record I save my generated _SBo packages and install them on another machine if I need them. Saves time.

Quote:
"Use slackbuilds" is like saying "Here is a cookbook, now you can open a successful restaurant".
I don't think so. In most cases you just execute the script and it takes care of everything. Sometimes there are different options you can alter. Control.

Quote:
As I am not willing to build LibreOffice, openJDK or the last ffmpeg every time an update is out there.
For the record, the SlackBuilds for these do not build them from scratch.
 
Old 03-08-2013, 04:57 AM   #273
solarfields
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EDIT: delete double post...

ngc891,
I did not mean to sound harsh with my previous post, simply "That's because writing a slackbuild is cheap" is not that nice to hear.

It is not cheap.

Last edited by solarfields; 03-08-2013 at 05:05 AM.
 
Old 03-08-2013, 05:10 AM   #274
ponce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allend View Post
There are also issues with optional functionality in programs. If you host a binary for, say qemu-kvm, should it be built with spice support? This can be useful, but not required in many implementations.
but it's muuuch better than VNC for vms displays, I would have voted yes
 
Old 03-08-2013, 05:36 AM   #275
ngc891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allend View Post
ffmpeg is a classic example of the problem with hosting binaries. Due to copyright issues, a complete ffmpeg binary cannot be hosted or distributed from slackware.com.
Well, it's the same for MPlayer, isn't it? Anyway, I never suggested to host these extra packages on slackware.com. Look at what did AlienBob for the ffmpeg package, it works pretty well. You can have free and non-free packages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allend View Post
There are also issues with optional functionality in programs. If you host a binary for, say qemu-kvm, should it be built with spice support? This can be useful, but not required in many implementations.
This apply to any kind of packages. Inside or outside Slackware. I don't see the point, you are always able to recompile what you want with the slackbuilds. Providing packages makes a lot of thing easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allend View Post
I never buy the argument that Slackware should be more like distro xyz. Slackware is Slackware. If you want the features of distro xyz, then go and use it. There are many Slackware spin-offs that strive to deal with perceived problems with user friendliness in Slackware.
Not sure to whom this is addressed. I never asked to change Slackware, just thought it could be interesting to make some "set" maintained by the community. And that's exactly what Patrick Volkerding thought for Gnome. And it's what I do for E17. And it's what other people do for some packages. If you don't use third-party packages and like to compile everything by yourself, great. But do not say it's useless to have prebuild binaries.
 
Old 03-08-2013, 06:42 AM   #276
ngc891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarfields View Post
Excuse me? What I like about SBo is that it aims to become the unified place for SlackBuild scripts. Even Patrick Volkerding recommended it when a new version of Slackware was released.
Of course, that's the most prominent slackbuild repo out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solarfields View Post
Why don't _you_ contact the maintainer of E17 SlackBuilds and offer help?
Well, at first, I didn't know they started from scratch. But the slackbuilds are pretty easy to write and what I see looks good. What kind of help can I offer? My slackbuilds are really easy to find, but as I said, it's not the most important thing for me. I'm maintaining a building infra and compile packages for several arch. That's the big work: getting all the packages built together, tested an published. Writing a new slackbuild for something standard takes me 2-3 minutes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by solarfields View Post
What about time? For the record I save my generated _SBo packages and install them on another machine if I need them. Saves time.
Exactly, so why not publishing it to help other people? That's the idea.
 
Old 03-08-2013, 07:05 AM   #277
ngc891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarfields View Post
ngc891,
I did not mean to sound harsh with my previous post, simply "That's because writing a slackbuild is cheap" is not that nice to hear.

It is not cheap.
well, I'm sorry, but I still think it's cheap :-)
In the last 15 years, I wrote hundreds of slackbuilds. Most of them used autotools and were a matter of minutes. Others use standard cmake/python/perl and are not a big deal. Sometimes, you spend more time getting the source package, checking dependencies or writing the description than actual code. Some can be really difficult, that's right, but it's not a majority.
The problem I often get is when the source package build system is deficient. For instance, I almost never found a configure script that honor properly the --docdir directive. It's something I cared about when I wrote eperiodique and elemines, the source packages even contain the slackbuild :-)

If the slackbuild is not cheap, there is maybe something to contribute upstream.
 
Old 03-08-2013, 08:42 AM   #278
Alien Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngc891 View Post
well, I'm sorry, but I still think it's cheap :-)
In the last 15 years, I wrote hundreds of slackbuilds.
Reading that, why don't you evaulate those scripts you have written, and sumbit some of the more valuable ones (and that are not yet available on SBo) to the SlackBuilds.org project?
People who write SlackBuild scripts as routine and actually use the packages they produce, can add value to the Slackware community sites. Slackware is a small distro, and its community is important.

But still, you should not call other people's work on scripting "cheap". Writing a SlackBuild script may not be a big effort, but after submitting it to SBo you will be expected to keep maintaining it, and interact with the people who use your script(s). That is the hard part, because the public submission creates expectations. We call you a "maintainer" instead of a "submitter" - those two are miles apart.

As for feeding back improvements to upstream developers - I have had bad experiences myself with arrogant assholes who would not consider Slackware as a distro they had to take seriously, so I eventually stopped giving direct feedback and instead look for bugtrackers to register my issues.

And in response to the topic at hand: adding community packages to the Slackware DVD is something which should not be considered, is my opinion.

Eric
 
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:40 AM   #279
Soderlund
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How about traditional vi?

http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/

(Just download it and run make -- it works out of the box on Slackware 14.0.)

It has UTF-8 (elvis does not preserve et c.) and is smaller than elvis.

Code:
$ stat /usr/bin/elvis
  Size: 437596
$ stat ex # The traditional vi binary
  Size: 242887
(/usr/bin/vim is 2 MB!)

If I'm not mistaken, elvis was chosen for Slackware because vi wasn't available due to licensing. But now vi has been released under a BSD-style license. So what do you think about replacing elvis with it?

/usr/bin/ex (-> vim) and /usr/bin/vi (-> elvis) are just symlinks. So elvis could even be kept and traditional vi included as /usr/bin/ex.
 
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:35 AM   #280
ponce
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I think ex-vi is completely unmaintained since 6-7 years, so world+dog switched to elvis.

It doesn't work here with my terminal.
 
Old 03-08-2013, 10:55 AM   #281
Soderlund
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According to Wikipedia the last release of elvis was 2003-10-21. The last ex-vi is from 2005-03-25.

I just want UTF-8 without vim.

Did you try in XTerm?
 
Old 03-08-2013, 12:04 PM   #282
ponce
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"Terminal too wide"

http://elvis.the-little-red-haired-girl.org/
https://github.com/mbert/elvis

Last edited by ponce; 03-08-2013 at 12:07 PM.
 
Old 03-08-2013, 12:33 PM   #283
Soderlund
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponce View Post
Does this help?
Quote:
You can tune the sizes of some internal buffers by editing config.h. In particular, you will have to raise the size of the 'TUBE' constants if you wish to use really large-sized terminals.
http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/README

I use 800x600 screen resolution so I guess my terminal is small enough.
 
Old 03-09-2013, 03:33 AM   #284
jtsn
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Code:
* The screen buffers for visual mode are now dynamically allocated, so
  vi usually does not return to ex mode with "screen too large" when the
  terminal is resized on a large monitor anymore.
http://ex-vi.cvs.sourceforge.net/vie...=file&view=log
 
Old 03-09-2013, 03:49 AM   #285
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allend View Post
ffmpeg is a classic example of the problem with hosting binaries. Due to copyright issues, a complete ffmpeg binary cannot be hosted or distributed from slackware.com.
I thought it was possible to build a redistributable version ...
 
  


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