LinuxQuestions.org
LinuxAnswers - the LQ Linux tutorial section.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Distributions > Slackware
User Name
Password
Slackware This Forum is for the discussion of Slackware Linux.

Notices



Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 05-14-2007, 06:29 AM   #31
Alien_Hominid
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Lithuania
Distribution: Hybrid
Posts: 2,247

Rep: Reputation: 53

Was Pat getting any help from gaim/pidgin dev team, if now it is so important that gaim/pidgin became unsupported. When did they support it especially for Slack.

This statement has the same importance as the gaim is not supported for Alien Hominid Linux, because we don't use it, so it's lame if we don't,despite I've never asked any help and it compiles correctly.

Nobody asks them to build packages, there are distro devs for this job(it doesn't matter if distro is either gentoo, or debian, or suse, or slack).
 
Old 05-14-2007, 10:40 AM   #32
rworkman
Slackware Contributor
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Tuscaloosa, Alabama (USA)
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 1,945

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
This post has a bit of background on this Pidgin issue...
http://lists.slackbuilds.org/piperma...ay/000464.html
 
Old 05-14-2007, 10:54 AM   #33
Alien_Hominid
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Lithuania
Distribution: Hybrid
Posts: 2,247

Rep: Reputation: 53
So pidgin support is dropped not because of an argument between Pat and pidgin devs, but due to pidgin reliance on "obsolete" and their own modified mozilla-nss sources. Am I correct?

However, that does not explain why pidgin devs have accused Slackware of being "lame" OS.
 
Old 05-14-2007, 11:47 AM   #34
rworkman
Slackware Contributor
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Tuscaloosa, Alabama (USA)
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 1,945

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
I think that's an oversimplification at best, and in some part, incorrect.
Pidgin has not modified mozilla-nss - it does, however, seem that they're expecting a nonstandard mozilla-nss (probably something that their "chosen" distros do to it). Note that this *seems* to be the case, but the Pidgin devs are stating otherwise, so do your own research and come to your own conclusion.
As for why Pat dropped pidgin into unsupported/ - the emotions and reasons involved are either obvious and/or speculative (some combination of the two). You'd have to ask Pat for any more than that, and I honestly don't recommend asking him -- he's almost certainly not going to reply to a gazillion emails on the subject, so you'd be wasting both your time and his time.
 
Old 05-14-2007, 01:16 PM   #35
shadin
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 44

Rep: Reputation: 15
Please. Don't fool yourself, there weren't any "security issues" with Gaim before the developers said they didn't like Slackware because of its package management. This whole ordeal is just stupid, Gaim is one of the best GTK-based IM clients available, and last time I checked, every developer and every distro creator didn't necessarily have to like one another's work for their projects to go together. If that were the case, open source software would crash and burn tomorrow.

I'm going to keep using Slackware because I like it. I'm going to keep using Gaim because I like it. The fact that the Gaim developers hate my distro of choice means utterly nothing to me: I probably don't like theirs, either. Pat either needs to stop overreacting and just put the package back in and not drop something that's been in Slackware for years just because someone said something he doesn't like about his distro, or he needs to at least replace it with something GTK-based. Kopete is great, if you're using KDE or have the libs installed.

Speaking of which, Pat said some pretty harsh things about GNOME back in the day too, and dropped support. I guess that means I should've have uninstalled Slackware since that's my desktop of choice.

I love OSS, but I can do without the stupid soap operas and people's personal pride being directly tied to their distro of choice.
 
Old 05-14-2007, 02:51 PM   #36
Okie
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 964

Rep: Reputation: 34
shadin, bah humbug! phooey on gaim/pidon! ;p

Last edited by Okie; 05-14-2007 at 09:08 PM.
 
Old 05-14-2007, 03:11 PM   #37
jets0n
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2006
Distribution: Slackware | Ubuntu | Debian | CentOS
Posts: 34

Rep: Reputation: 15
@shadin - GAIM is a great client, there is no doubt. But I am somewhat confused by your term "soap opera". Slackware is pretty much a one-man-job, so I can understand Pat dropping GNOME, but dropping Pidgin wasn't (in my opinion) done because Pat was offended, but because their statement was fairly harsh. I'm not a GNOME or GTK2 fan, but I won't say that GNOME sucks or that GAIM sucks. I also won't say that "I actively dislike a distribution" simply because I don't use it. Just because you can't respond to mails from users by typing "You need to type: sudo apt-get install gnutls libgcrypt libgpg-error" does not mean that a distribution's install is "broken". It's simply not fair to put out that kind of a statement, after all-if you don't like it, you don't have to use it, but i don't see the need in bashing Slackware just because of the way it works. It-s not hard to list the dependancies on the main page and put a disclaimer that there will be no official packages for Slackware, so I don't see the need for hammering of Slackware that Pidgin's developers have shown. Just my 2c
 
Old 05-14-2007, 04:08 PM   #38
shadin
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 44

Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
shadin, bah humbug! fooey on gaim/pidon! ;p
So noted. ;p

Quote:
@shadin - GAIM is a great client, there is no doubt. But I am somewhat confused by your term "soap opera". Slackware is pretty much a one-man-job, so I can understand Pat dropping GNOME, but dropping Pidgin wasn't (in my opinion) done because Pat was offended, but because their statement was fairly harsh. I'm not a GNOME or GTK2 fan, but I won't say that GNOME sucks or that GAIM sucks. I also won't say that "I actively dislike a distribution" simply because I don't use it. Just because you can't respond to mails from users by typing "You need to type: sudo apt-get install gnutls libgcrypt libgpg-error" does not mean that a distribution's install is "broken". It's simply not fair to put out that kind of a statement, after all-if you don't like it, you don't have to use it, but i don't see the need in bashing Slackware just because of the way it works. It-s not hard to list the dependancies on the main page and put a disclaimer that there will be no official packages for Slackware, so I don't see the need for hammering of Slackware that Pidgin's developers have shown. Just my 2c
But WAS their statement harsh? They voiced an opinion about a distro and why they don't provide packages for it.

Quote:
We have no developers using Slack, and furthermore, several of us actively dislike that distribution for its history of broken installs, as well as for its non-existant package management. You cannot create true packages for Slack.
Let's look at this. None of the developers use Slackware. Several of them dislike the distro because of history of broken installs and non-existant package management. Okay, I don't know what they mean by history of broken installs, as that's a bit too vague (and I doubt anyone has asked them to actually clarify). The package management, though, sure. Someone that uses distros with dep-resolution exclusively would think that Slackware packages came over on the Ark. The fact that they don't consider them "true" packages, I can understand, as they're basically just zip files with pkgtool to keep track of where the files are unzipped to.

I just don't understand how those two sentences are so inflammatory that suddenly Pidgin is ripped from Slackware and all Slack fans feel obligated to uninstall the program. That's precisely what I mean by "soap opera". God forbid anyone dislike Slackware.
 
Old 05-14-2007, 04:13 PM   #39
PsychoticDude85
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2005
Distribution: Slackware -current - KDE 3.5.10
Posts: 62

Rep: Reputation: 15
I think by broken installs they mean someone has installed gaim on their computer without the required deps (or somesuch) and has then asked the gaim folks for assistance. It appears they are resentful that we don't provide automatic dependancy resolution, and feel that it is therefore Slackware's fault (and not the fault of those users) that their time has been wasted.

Or at least that's my take on it, could be wrong.
 
Old 05-14-2007, 04:22 PM   #40
Alien_Hominid
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Lithuania
Distribution: Hybrid
Posts: 2,247

Rep: Reputation: 53
I believe you all haven't read rworkman post and link. When you read, you will understand that there is problem in building pidgin without changing mozilla-nss. We all know that Pat doesn't like modifying original packages. As well, he doesn't want to add extra dependencies of gnutls just for pidgin.


And, btw, can anybody patch the pidgin that it could work in default Slack? It won't be official, but available in repos. And the problem will be over.
 
Old 05-14-2007, 04:25 PM   #41
MS3FGX
Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2004
Location: NJ, USA
Distribution: Slackware, Debian
Posts: 5,852

Rep: Reputation: 351Reputation: 351Reputation: 351Reputation: 351
Quote:
But WAS their statement harsh? They voiced an opinion about a distro and why they don't provide packages for it.
Considering that they don't release packages for anything but Fedora Core and Red Hat, yet no other distribution got a little personal flame, I would say yes. If they put their opinion for every distribution the developers ever used on that page, maybe that would be another situation entirely. But it would also be completely unprofessional and, again, pointless as it has no bearing on the topic being addressed on said page.

Right below the Slackware entry, they have:

Quote:
We have no developers using arch, SuSE, or any other distribution.
Not:

Quote:
We have no developers using arch, SuSE, or any other distribution, because they all suck, hail to Red Hat. lolz
It is one thing to not have developers using a particular distribution, that is naturally understandable. Going farther, I have no problem with developers saying "We have no developers using distribution xxxx, so can't build binaries for it", that is also completely understandable. But beyond that, any other comment about the issue is simply needless mudslinging. Which, as we are clearly experiencing currently, stirs up a whole lot of negative emotion on the part of all parties involved, and is totally counterproductive for the open source community.

The point here is that it doesn't matter why they aren't building Slackware packages, simply because nobody has asked (or, arguably, cares). It was sufficient for them to just say they don't have a Slackware build environment (which was apparently suitable enough for them to do for every other distribution in the world), no need to elaborate on why they don't have a Slackware build environment, or their thoughts about anyone else using their software on Slackware.
 
Old 05-14-2007, 05:28 PM   #42
rworkman
Slackware Contributor
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Tuscaloosa, Alabama (USA)
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 1,945

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien_Hominid
And, btw, can anybody patch the pidgin that it could work in default Slack? It won't be official, but available in repos. And the problem will be over.
Pat has packages for both stable (11.0) and -current here:
http://slackware.osuosl.org/unsupported/pidgin/
 
Old 05-14-2007, 11:05 PM   #43
unixfool
Member
 
Registered: May 2005
Location: Northern VA
Distribution: Slackware, Ubuntu, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, OS X
Posts: 781
Blog Entries: 8

Rep: Reputation: 157Reputation: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadin
But WAS their statement harsh? They voiced an opinion about a distro and why they don't provide packages for it.
The thing was, why were they even doing this when Pat was doing it? Was it because noobs kept whining to them about providing a Slack package? That appears to be the case. Why else would they even be complaining? Also, I fail to see what the big deal is. Building a GAIM package isn't really rocket science...I'd expect more from guys so intimate with code. They've become too reliant on package managers that automate dep checking instead of understanding what goes on behind the scenes. They also have to realize that Pat is trying to update Slackware...its a moving target just as the other distros are, so why pick on Slackware in particular? Maybe because they're a bit aloof about raw (read REAL) distros...dunno.

Their opinion is their own, but what they said was a bit of B.S. Before making such opinions, maybe they should have attempted to make a better attempt at trying to understand what was going on.

I don't think Pat went overboard. It's obvious they don't understand what they're complaining about and made some bad comments. Yes, they were bad because they were assuming, and we all know that saying about the word ASSUMPTION.
 
Old 05-15-2007, 04:53 AM   #44
Old_Fogie
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Distribution: SLACKWARE 4TW! =D
Posts: 1,515

Rep: Reputation: 62
From slack current changelog

http://slackware.com/changelog/current.php?cpu=i386:

Quote:
xap/xmms-1.2.10-i486-3.tgz: XMMS developers: THANK YOU for your years of
dedication. We look forward to considering a new GTK+2 based design some
time in the future. (Package removed).
to which the xmms team replied http://www.xmms.org/:

Quote:
Bye Bye Slackware!
No, thank YOU for keeping a clean and tidy version of XMMS around without a gazillion insane patches. We will always love you! It's unlikely we will cross paths again, but we've enjoyed the lack of support cases the Slackware distribution has caused us. Much love <3 <3 <3.
hmmm, one of the longest running applications seemed to like us and had nothing but great things to say.

Too bad pidgin dev's didn't IM the xmms team for /dev/support
 
Old 05-15-2007, 04:56 AM   #45
Alien_Hominid
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Lithuania
Distribution: Hybrid
Posts: 2,247

Rep: Reputation: 53
I still use xmms (and will until xmms2 will be available). There was no problem to get it running.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pidgin 2.0.0 rigelan Slackware 7 05-07-2007 08:03 PM
Problems compiling the new Pidgin - pango errors R00T.OSIRIS Linux - Software 1 05-05-2007 05:39 AM
LXer: Pidgin (aka Gaim) 2.0 finally arrives LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 05-05-2007 05:31 AM
LXer: AOL dispute forces GAIM to become "Pidgin" LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 04-10-2007 09:16 AM
Gaim is Now Known as Pidgin XavierP Linux - News 1 04-09-2007 07:32 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:03 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration