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Old 10-21-2009, 11:34 AM   #16
mostlyharmless
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Quote:
Are they afraid of the overwhelming speed advantage ( applications seem to run snappier, pstree seems less cluttered ... ) of Slackware ? :-D

To my subjective feel, it just seems faster...

I wonder when will phoronix run a benhmark over Slack...?
Well, to be fair Phoronix did say they were testing the 4 most popular distros. They can't test them all. You could download the Phoronix test suite and do it yourself. I dunno, I'd rather run my own code and see how it goes...
 
Old 10-21-2009, 02:45 PM   #17
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by mostlyharmless View Post
The OP wants to use his workhorse apps in his main OS at full speed, not be forced to run them in a VM like retarded Windows apps, so I respectfully disagree.
It's been some time since I've used FORTRAN. Speed was never an issue for complex computational work. That's the strength of FORTRAN, computational math work. Be for fluid dynamics or even simple math data set studies. Just lug along to get the solution.

You can disagree all you wish, speed is great whenever actually necessary but for complex computation except for 3D or depth analysis it is not always necessary. You would not compute in FORTRAN a 3D model but use the data from FORTRAN to generate the model in another language or Application.

Sure speed is always great but with today's hardware along with the resources then the use of a 'VM' is beneficial. Apparently you haven't used a 'VM' since you compare the use to a rumor for M$ applications generally. 'VMs' are used by myriad of users for servers, data acquisition systems and even test bed platforms for different needs. I suggest that you do some Googling before making simplistic statements like the one you made.
 
Old 10-21-2009, 02:50 PM   #18
onebuck
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexvader View Post
Hi Onebuck

Thanks for your answer,

Let me thank you for your suggestion in using the VM, that had not occured to me before...

#1) Being a newbie in Slackware, I ADMIT, that i am not very versed, and having exhausted any possible ( to my knowledge ... ) means to solve a problem and having failed to do so in other distros, I am ASKING ( like in having a doubt, and implicitly admitting not being very versed ... ) how to do so in Slackware. :-)

#2)I do not KNOW if the compiler provides the means to acheive my goals because of what I explained in #1, all i can state is that to the extent of my attempts it failed to do so so, admitting that my knowledge in this area in unsatisfactory to acheive my goals, i challenged not in a tone of arrogance or banter, but merely to ask someone to prove to me that I am wrong about my statement, and my findings about gcc's ability to do the task i want...

#3) I did not mean to be arrogant or unpolite to anyone in this forum, if I was interpreted this way, I feel sorry about that.

Alex

PS: May I ask the meaning of OP...? Please explain...
OP is Original Post(er).

It just seemed like it was a challenge. As I suggested you could use the 'VM' on a host to service the client which you were able to compute on. Do some searches here on LQ for 'VM'. In fact there is a new LQ 'Linux - Virtualization' forum that you might find useful.
 
Old 10-21-2009, 04:12 PM   #19
Alexvader
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Thank you Onebuck,

I may well try this so to compare with a native, non layered run of the applications.

BRGDS

Alex
 
Old 10-21-2009, 05:08 PM   #20
mostlyharmless
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Onebuck, actually, I use a VM quite often, and never use Windows for any numerical calculations. As far as your statements regarding speed and Fortran and computations, I can't disagree more. Try doing non-linear FEM calculations on a realistic grid and tell me speed isn't important. See my quote above regards speed from Numerical recipes. Clearly your perspective is different than mine, but that doesn't make either of us right.

BTW, you sure seem cranky today, both to me and the OP, just an observation. Oh well, whatever.
 
Old 10-21-2009, 07:18 PM   #21
easuter
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Alexvader, if speed is a concern for you then using legacy Fortran77 libraries may not be the best option.
For example, the reference BLAS and LAPACK libraries from Netlib compile just fine with gfortran, for both 32 bit and 64 bit Slackware 13 (you can find them at slackbuilds.org), but they are just reference libraries useful for when you are developing some numerical program or performing operations on small data sets. They are most definitely not designed to take full advantage of today's multicore processors.

If you plan to use the BLAS, then you should obtain a library tuned for your processor to get good performance. For example, Intel provides the MKL and AMD provides the ACML. The calling interface is the same (for the most part...) so you should be able to swap out libraries when necessary. If you are concerned about using only open source software then you can use GOTO BLAS (yeah the name is weird, but its not what you think! ).
As for LAPACK, you can use ATLAS to build a library with optimizations suited to your machine.

Oh and BTW, if you have a CUDA capable GPU then you can use your graphics card to speed up your calculations as well (not all cases are well suited to the CUDA model, but many are).

Last edited by easuter; 10-21-2009 at 07:47 PM.
 
Old 10-21-2009, 08:20 PM   #22
Alexvader
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Hi @easuter, @mostlyharmless, @onebuck

Thanks for yr precious help;

@easuter : I will try to build with icc/ifort ( in case i can install them, will try tomorrow only... ) against the mkl libraries.

@mostlyharmless : quoting

"Try doing non-linear FEM calculations on a realistic grid and tell me speed isn't important. See my quote above regards speed from Numerical recipes"

Quite true, now just imagine adding one more layer of complexity : Instead of making an FSI analysis ( Fluid Structural Interaction Coupling ) for the detailed study of structural Failure of an aircraft under flutter loading, for instance, bouncing between a full mesh topological update and, a CFD viscous turbulent solution on a refined grid, to solve for a pressure calculation over the lift/control surfaces generating the loads, and an FEA that will ultimately be used in a Geometrically nonlinear large-displacement explicit dynamics solution for the structure ( which is probably anisotropic - made of composite shells for instance ), back and forth, till convergence...

Or making a full FEA or CFD analysis an evaluator function in a genetic optimizer framework...

SPEED MATTERS A LOT

BRGDS

Alex
 
Old 10-22-2009, 07:22 PM   #23
folkenfanel
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Wink Where can I get those compilers?

Where can I get that icc compiler?
 
Old 10-23-2009, 11:34 AM   #24
onebuck
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by mostlyharmless View Post
Onebuck, actually, I use a VM quite often, and never use Windows for any numerical calculations. As far as your statements regarding speed and Fortran and computations, I can't disagree more. Try doing non-linear FEM calculations on a realistic grid and tell me speed isn't important. See my quote above regards speed from Numerical recipes. Clearly your perspective is different than mine, but that doesn't make either of us right.

BTW, you sure seem cranky today, both to me and the OP, just an observation. Oh well, whatever.
The mix of tools will facilitate a programmer. Real time is always a bitch no matter how you look at a problem. Many times analysis of one's experimental data lacks the real time aspect (fudge anyone?). Processing data is better today than it was 20 years ago but the analysis will never afford the luxury of real-time analysis, close but not there. Yes, I agree that our perspective(s) are different but I appreciate the value of our viewpoints.

Many people don't really look at the interfacing between the transducer, acquisition then computation of the measured data. Sure the transducers today perform better than their predecessors but that damn interface gets in the way. Let alone the computation of the passed data. Then we have the interpretation phase to the presentation phase. I remember when linear measurement/computation devices were the new an fastest boy on the block. Then the bastardization into the new DAS which just became a stumbling block that was then used POST experimentally by passing the data for computation. To me the money spent on that DAS was wasted since there really wasn't the means to interpret in real-time other than to view.

I'm sorry if I seemed cranky. It's been busy here on the farm getting things ready for winter. The horses don't speak tech.

In fact I have to close and move to other posts that have backed up in the Que or is that cache.
 
Old 10-23-2009, 12:21 PM   #25
Alexvader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by folkenfanel View Post
Where can I get that icc compiler?
Hi There,

You can get icc ifort and mkl from http://software.intel.com/en-us/arti...ware-download/

Enjoy...

BRGDS

Alex
 
Old 10-23-2009, 12:23 PM   #26
Alexvader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Hi,



The mix of tools will facilitate a programmer. Real time is always a bitch no matter how you look at a problem. Many times analysis of one's experimental data lacks the real time aspect (fudge anyone?). Processing data is better today than it was 20 years ago but the analysis will never afford the luxury of real-time analysis, close but not there. Yes, I agree that our perspective(s) are different but I appreciate the value of our viewpoints.

Many people don't really look at the interfacing between the transducer, acquisition then computation of the measured data. Sure the transducers today perform better than their predecessors but that damn interface gets in the way. Let alone the computation of the passed data. Then we have the interpretation phase to the presentation phase. I remember when linear measurement/computation devices were the new an fastest boy on the block. Then the bastardization into the new DAS which just became a stumbling block that was then used POST experimentally by passing the data for computation. To me the money spent on that DAS was wasted since there really wasn't the means to interpret in real-time other than to view.

I'm sorry if I seemed cranky. It's been busy here on the farm getting things ready for winter. The horses don't speak tech.

In fact I have to close and move to other posts that have backed up in the Que or is that cache.

It's allright OneBuck... :-)

Thanks

Alex
 
Old 10-23-2009, 03:42 PM   #27
mostlyharmless
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Alex:
Quote:
Instead of making an FSI analysis ( Fluid Structural Interaction Coupling ) for the detailed study of structural Failure of an aircraft under flutter loading, for instance, bouncing between a full mesh topological update and, a CFD viscous turbulent solution on a refined grid, to solve for a pressure calculation over the lift/control surfaces generating the loads, and an FEA that will ultimately be used in a Geometrically nonlinear large-displacement explicit dynamics solution for the structure ( which is probably anisotropic - made of composite shells for instance ), back and forth, till convergence...

Or making a full FEA or CFD analysis an evaluator function in a genetic optimizer framework
Cool, I wish I were having fun like that..

onebuck:
Quote:
I'm sorry if I seemed cranky. It's been busy here on the farm getting things ready for winter. The horses don't speak tech.
Oh, OK. Let me guess, you asked them if they knew how and they said "Nay".
 
Old 10-23-2009, 04:41 PM   #28
onebuck
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Hi,

I asked them in real-time. They refused commands due to propagation via command line. Whip on! Whip off!

So nay hither or nay nether but thither yon.

Oh heck it's Friday and the beers not getting colder.

So a large stout and good'ay to y'all!
 
Old 10-23-2009, 05:15 PM   #29
Alexvader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mostlyharmless View Post
Alex:

Cool, I wish I were having fun like that..

.
Hi MostlyHarmless,

;-) Engineers Jir-O Horikoshi San and Matsudaira San solved a similar issue back in 1940, only by analytical means... :-)

The Mitsubishi A6m Rei Sen ( also known as Zero ) was flutter unstable when operating in the high speed boundary of its V-n Diagram...

But I am just to lazy to solve the equations by hand... ;-D

...and Tonite its going to be babe night... and beer time,


...so let the bits and bytes roll in the cluster... It will ve a long weekend for the poor CPUs... ;-)

Nice weekend foy you all... ;-D

BRGDS

Alex

Last edited by Alexvader; 10-23-2009 at 05:17 PM.
 
  


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