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I would like to apologize to everyone in this thread for the unnecessary arguments. Plainly my original post was meant to be a casual drive by post to share a few of my basic opinions about Slackware. I did not intend for it to get blown out of proportion or turn into an argument.
@Didier Spaier, you are exactly right in your translations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD
@mralk3: At this point it is clear to me that you are not interested in an honest discussion anymore, you put things in my mouth I never said, so I will cease any further discussion with you.
That is where you are wrong. I do like honest discussion and debate. What I do not like is argumentative discussion. I would like to believe that most people are put off by this type of discussion. I come here on my free time for education, entertainment, and to help others. I did not come here to argue with you.
I feel your approach to sharing your opinion is far too aggressive. Disagreeing is one thing, and it's perfectly OK to disagree. What I have a problem with is that you are not just disagreeing with my opinion. You are also disagreeing with everything I said thereafter I stated my opinion for the sake of arguing. Then you took it one step further and decided to never talk to me again because we had a different view point. This type of reaction is not constructive in any type of discussion. It simply turns people away and keeps them from coming back to these forums.
This is not the first time we have disagreed, and I doubt it will be the last. It is a frustrating thing to see these type responses coming from a moderator. It feels like I am being trolled by a moderator just because my opinions do not coincide with the opinions of others.
You and I have had a similar discussion in the past (I forget which thread, but it was equally uncomfortable) where the end result was the same: argument and blatant disagreement. That is all fine. People disagree. I just do not want to deal with the argumentative discussions or conflict. So I stopped posting in that section of LQ.
I joined LQ to foster ideas and knowledge about GNU/Linux in myself and in others. I am not here to argue with people and convince people that my opinions are better than their own.
If you are here to argue go right ahead. Knock yourself out by arguing to your hearts content. I only ask that in the future you exclude me from such conflict.
It is a frustrating thing to see these type responses coming from a moderator. It feels like I am being trolled by a moderator just because my opinions do not coincide with the opinions of others.
Agreed. It is the job of a moderator to direct threads and deal with disputes if they arise. In my opinion I think a moderator should avoid inflaming others. Just my 2 cents worth.
@mralk3: If you are interested in an honest discussion then stop putting words in my mouth. If you feel I am trolling you then report me.
@mralk3 and @hitest: I have said it before and I will repeat it once again: My status as moderator does not mean that I should leave factual errors uncorrected, it does not mean that I should not take part in discussions were I feel a discussion is needed, and it does not mean that I can't call people out for putting words in my mouth.
If you feel that I use my moderator status to somehow influence discussions, or that my role as moderator should hinder me from taking part in discussions, then just say so and I will ask Jeremy to remove my moderator privileges.
If you feel that I use my moderator status to somehow influence discussions, or that my role as moderator should hinder me from taking part in discussions, then just say so and I will ask Jeremy to remove my moderator privileges.
Where did I say that your moderator status should prevent you from taking part in discussions? What I said was that a moderator should avoid inflaming others. You are free to engage in any discussions. But, in my opinion I don't think that a moderator should make a thread worse or incite people to anger. I didn't ask for your resignation; I offered my unsolicited opinion that you should rein in your comments.
@mralk3: If you are interested in an honest discussion then stop putting words in my mouth. If you feel I am trolling you then report me.
@mralk3 and @hitest: I have said it before and I will repeat it once again: My status as moderator does not mean that I should leave factual errors uncorrected, it does not mean that I should not take part in discussions were I feel a discussion is needed, and it does not mean that I can't call people out for putting words in my mouth.
If you feel that I use my moderator status to somehow influence discussions, or that my role as moderator should hinder me from taking part in discussions, then just say so and I will ask Jeremy to remove my moderator privileges.
You know Slackware Linux on google plus is a much better environment I go there most of the time. Because of this type of moderator's stance.
Slackware linux get a new release everyday on my computer when I add something to it. You see no one owns Slackware linux Not even Pat V.
This is why I tire of this place. I see Pat went to the 4.9.2 GCC and that was huge. As before it was not much. it was Slackware 14.1 with some little more compiling. Now I see the hard work I subscribe for. As for the moderators or Slackware Freaks of nature it all an conspiracy.
And Pat he will tell you that. We lasted another Xday.
Remember people like me with working dyslexia get made fun of told how to type told how to write told what grammar is right.
I am glad your moderators are good for 60 pm or more and have perfect vision and never do nothing wrong. I do love this type of thread and it should stay for ever. Love the that guy emailed me from here told me I was to stupid to use spell check LOL. Smile and keep working on my old dyslexic ways. There will be a new release of Slackware tomorrow right after Xday.
I don't know which experiences you have made, but for me this was and is not true with Debian Sid, Gentoo and Arch.
Well I wish I could say that because I have used all those and still keep them for building programs. NEVER ONCE HAS DEBIAN
UPGRADED SMOOTHLY. As for slackware after upgrading to a new release I just run my sh NVIDIA-run.sh and all is well.
I know where /usr/lib64 is I know what the tree is going to be.
Like I said I am not perfect.
@mralk3: If you are interested in an honest discussion then stop putting words in my mouth. If you feel I am trolling you then report me.
I didn't put words "into your mouth". My response was a conclusion based on your comments.
You say you are so adamant about honest discussion, but will not allow anyone to have a different opinion than your own. Part of honest discussion is hearing the other person out and allowing them to reciprocate with their own response.
I've read back my responses. I apologize if I have insulted you in some way. I am not aware of any insults I sent your way. All I am aware of is that I have a different opinion that your own and that you went out of your way to tell me I am wrong.
This thread is very aggravating, so I am unsubscribing and not responding any further.
Where did I say that your moderator status should prevent you from taking part in discussions? What I said was that a moderator should avoid inflaming others. You are free to engage in any discussions. But, in my opinion I don't think that a moderator should make a thread worse or incite people to anger. I didn't ask for your resignation; I offered my unsolicited opinion that you should rein in your comments.
May I just ask you how exactly is correcting factual errors and calling people out for putting words in my mouth is making a thread worse? IMHO, exactly not doing those things is making threads worse, leaving wrong information unchallenged and not standing up when people think they can put words in other people's mouths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikinovak
Just let the moderator's stance be moderate.
My stance on these things has nothing to do at all with my status as moderator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mralk3
You say you are so adamant about honest discussion, but will not allow anyone to have a different opinion than your own. Part of honest discussion is hearing the other person out and allowing them to reciprocate with their own response.
You can have your own opinion as long as you want, but you are not entitled to your own facts. If you post factual errors (like that rolling release distributions have major problems on almost any update) then I will correct them. I see that as my duty, not as a moderator, but as a member of LQ and I think every member should.
Anyways, at this point I really feel that my moderator status is more point of the discussion than the actual comments I wanted to correct. This happened before already and really makes me think. I will be absent from LQ for the next 1.5 weeks anyways due to duties in the meatspace and will use that time to think about my role in this forum.
...at which point I think there is nothing much to say except anyone posting from here on should constructively contribute to the primary topic at hand.
I think this will summarize things well enough, hopefully...
A new release can only be finalized when enough software has stabilized enough from upstream that all tests being done have proven packages are within, what ever Patrick's level of tolerance is, levels of acceptable stability for the long term.
GNU/Linux had gotten a lot of new package updates from developers over the past several months. As a result, lots of packages must be tested for interoperability, stability, etc. this means building, testing, patching, rebuilding, more testing, lather, rinse, repeat as needed. This also means older packages might need testing as well.
For Slackware and all distributions that use stable and unstable support trees, this means works, hard work, and lots of it to have a desired payoff. Patrick basically, is hard at work, so please do not ask.
If you want more frequent updates, ride the wave of -Current. If you want even more frequent, download the Slackware-Source and update things yourself privately, or spinoff your own distribution, or get a distribution like Gentoo, Funtoo, Arch, and such and ride their experimental builds.
There is no secret. They are up to the preparation of a new Slackware release.
.
I can even predict what will happen next with a probability very close to 100%. The new release will be announced, the team will take some well deserved rest, then a new development cycle will begin and some folks will ask "when will the new version be released"?
If I were a mathematician I would call that recurrence.
Yes. What I probably should have said is that since I personally find the closer details of creating, updating, patching a system highly interesting, I would really enjoy knowing more details about these activities as applied to a system I have used since 1999 and to which I always keep returning. I know that that some of this information is there in the Changelogs ... but I have a suspicion -- perhaps mistaken -- that a lot is going on currently that will never make it in.
And I wouldn't expect to be able to influence any of it ... it would just be fun to watch and learn from. If I knew more about the kernel, I'd enjoy watching LKML.
Finally, I don't expect to ever get this -- I just rarely post so thought I'd pipe up.
Like, it's all good man. Ain't no worries over Slackware man. Like, Patrick's all cool and stuff with the stuff and things going on, so like, all we do is wait patiently man.
*Old Guru mode*
Like, it's all good man. Ain't no worries over Slackware man. Like, Patrick's all cool and stuff with the stuff and things going on, so like, all we do is wait patiently man.
My of contribution to the original topic of this thread...
I've run -current for the past couple of years; Slackware was 14.1 only for the amount of time it took to upgrade some packages to their latest version, ostensibly for security purposes, although on occasion there was a new feature in a package I found compelling. Other reasons include upgrading a package because another package I was wanting to upgrade (or install) was dependent upon it.
During that time, I have made dozens, if not hundreds, of tweaks to my system to get it running just the way I like it, and in fact, several packages are ahead of their counterparts in -current. Part of the Slackware way is to upgrade from source, patch if necessary, to keep the system running smoothly, and I have no problem with that. I could no more go back to -stable if I wanted to (and I don't; -current is stable enough for my purposes).
My only interest in a new release is to purchase it solely for support of Pat V. & Co. (and in fact, I have done so for 14.1 when it came out), which is why I don't usually participate in these kinds of threads. A new release is of no consequence to me technically, only as a means to support the excellent work of Patrick.
Regards,
Matt
Last edited by 1337_powerslacker; 07-27-2015 at 11:10 AM.
Reason: Clarified purposes of upgrading packages
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