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Old 12-23-2013, 11:09 AM   #61
gezley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
In case of the FX9xxx series this could indeed happen. Most common boards can't handle a 200W CPU and will indeed let the smoke out.
I recently had to replace the Power Supply Unit in a mid-range Dell PC, which was bought brand new for 790 EUR just over a year ago. The machine was just a month out of warranty. I could not believe my eyes when I saw a 265 watt PSU inside. Even 10-12 years ago I was putting nothing lower than a 380 watt PSU in machines. I was disgusted with Dell as I was the one who had specced the machine for this buyer and I had made sure to spec it a little higher than the run-of-the-mill machines they sell for 400-500 EUR. So that's where they're saving their few cents? Needless to say it was hugely embarrassing for me because I had recommended Dell to the buyer.

I'll make sure to remember this next time I go ordering new machines for people. I won't be ordering from Dell any longer, that's for sure.
 
Old 12-23-2013, 12:54 PM   #62
jtsn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gezley View Post
I recently had to replace the Power Supply Unit in a mid-range Dell PC, which was bought brand new for 790 EUR just over a year ago. The machine was just a month out of warranty. I could not believe my eyes when I saw a 265 watt PSU inside. Even 10-12 years ago I was putting nothing lower than a 380 watt PSU in machines.
A mid-range Intel Haswell machine with Intel HD graphics doesn't even need more than a 150 W PSU.

The retail market for consumer PSUs favors big numbers, so stuff has to be labeled "500 W". But as an OEM, you have way more options for custom designs. You won't believe what Apple uses to power their iMacs.
 
Old 12-23-2013, 01:38 PM   #63
enorbet
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Greetings
The way this thread is turning is a very good one because we really can't just go by size or gut instinct. In most cases it really is necessary to add up the draws of major components to see the actual draw and for both ends of the spectrum.

I have an old Compaq Presario case Mini ATX that someone gave me that is so ugly it's cool (looks a bit like a batman mask with a bulbous chin) and it makes s superb Lan Part box except for on haunting worry. The thing doesn't put the power supply in any of the ordinary shelves. It's on a swing arm, suspended from the "bridge" that usually has the Optical at one end and a real PS at the other. Seriously this PS is no bigger in size than one I recall from a Tandy 8086. Oddly the lil' racal powers everything I throw at it up to an including 2 hdds and a DVD burner, 2 extra fans plus an old Alpha Novatech HS/Fan, max ram and 1.4 Ghz Celeron OC'd to 1.78 GHz Celeron. It just feels like it should implode but it is an Energizer Bunny.

Conversely I am awaiting the UPS man "as we speak" who is bring me a 450 watt video card and a 900 Watt Corsair PS. I can hardly type from anticipation LOL
 
Old 12-26-2013, 01:08 PM   #64
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A mid-range Intel Haswell machine with Intel HD graphics doesn't even need more than a 150 W PSU.
Would you share some real-world (kill-o-watt) energy consumption numbers? Especially at idle?
 
Old 12-27-2013, 03:23 AM   #65
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
Would you share some real-world (kill-o-watt) energy consumption numbers? Especially at idle?
Not kill a watt numbers, slightly better-

Quote:
The new digital power supply unit from Corsair AX760i allows monitoring consumed and produced electrical power, which we use actively during our power consumption tests. The graphs below (unless specified otherwise) show the full power draw of the computer (without the monitor) measured after the power supply. It is the total power consumption of all the system components. The PSU's efficiency is not taken into account.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...0_7.html#sect0

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu..._11.html#sect0

Both tests done with a GTX 680 video card, pulling it for the intel video would save a few watts.

But I'd still go up to at least 200+ watts, probably 250-300 watts for a 'haswell' i5 or i7.
 
Old 12-27-2013, 07:17 PM   #66
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About 60 watts at idle.
 
Old 12-27-2013, 10:41 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
Would you share some real-world (kill-o-watt) energy consumption numbers? Especially at idle?
First let us define, what we're talking about:

- 80PLUS Gold PSU (connected to 220-240 V AC)
- standard socket 1150 mainboard
- standard Intel Haswell CPU (i3/i5/i7) including Intel HD GPU
- two standard DIMMs
- one hard drive / SSD
- one ODD
- no add-on cards
- no overclocking involved

Usual figure for this configuration is around 25 watts idle, it can be optimized down to 10 watts (you need a capable PSU for that). For most CPU models numbers under load won't even go beyond 100 W for the complete system.
 
Old 12-27-2013, 11:21 PM   #68
Woodsman
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Quote:
Usual figure for this configuration is around 25 watts idle
Wow, that is less than my old K6-III+ mobo at idle.

Quote:
you need a capable PSU for that
Please explain!

Last edited by Woodsman; 12-27-2013 at 11:22 PM.
 
Old 12-28-2013, 02:42 AM   #69
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
First let us define, what we're talking about:

- 80PLUS Gold PSU (connected to 220-240 V AC)
- standard socket 1150 mainboard
- standard Intel Haswell CPU (i3/i5/i7) including Intel HD GPU
- two standard DIMMs
- one hard drive / SSD
- one ODD
- no add-on cards
- no overclocking involved

Usual figure for this configuration is around 25 watts idle, it can be optimized down to 10 watts (you need a capable PSU for that). For most CPU models numbers under load won't even go beyond 100 W for the complete system.
Link to your source?

I've seen 25watt idle figures for i7 4770s, like here-

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/56...aswell/?page=9

i7-4770 @ 23 watts idle with a GTX 780 installed? I do not believe that test.

Xbitlabs, who do some of the best power consumption tests I've seen, have the 'haswell' i5-4430 idling @ 41 watts, no video card or optical drive. Other tests seem to agree with those figures-

Quote:
In an IDLE state, a PC (Z87 / 4770K / 16GB memory / GeForce GTX 580 / SSD) consumes roughly 70~80 Watts. Bear in mind that we measure the ENTIRE PC, not just the processor's power consumption. When we place load on the CPU and we see the power draw rise, the system now consumes roughly 135 Watts. This is with merely an SSD, memory and a GeForce GTX 580 installed. Your average PC will draw a little more power if you add optical drives, HDDs, soundcards etc.

Now more interesting is to remove the graphics card and to see how it behaves then. As shown in the chart above only the embedded IGP is used, the power consumption is great. In IDLE we measured ~39 Watts and, with processor load, 104 Watts for the entire PC. That is very low.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages...review,11.html
 
Old 12-28-2013, 07:43 AM   #70
jtsn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
Please explain!
You need a PSU which is capable of operating efficent below the 20 % load range. Additionally your PSU must be capable to operate below 20 W at all. Not many are, this why the new Intel Haswell power-saving features are disabled by default.
 
Old 12-28-2013, 08:18 AM   #71
jtsn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
i7-4770 @ 23 watts idle with a GTX 780 installed? I do not believe that test.
Well, there are some requirements: 220-240 V AC voltage (so in 127 V countries you're out of luck, Hexus is from the UK), a certified 80PLUS Gold or Platinum PSU, which additionally operates efficient below 30 W, and ... Windows. Because with Linux - which is lacking in advanced power management - you most likely will not reach those low numbers.

Quote:
In an IDLE state, a PC (Z87 / 4770K / 16GB memory / GeForce GTX 580 / SSD) consumes roughly 70~80 Watts.
My five years old AMD box gives similar results. The AMD 770 chipset consumes 20 W for itself, the (broken by design) CPU isn't able to enter the C1E state, so it stays at 15 W idle and the age-old nVidia card chooses to burn 35 W while displaying the desktop. But that is a thing of the past.

A Haswell CPU can idle below 1 W (and confuse voltage converters/PSUs by that), current-gen PCIe GPUs can reach 5 W with display turned off. SSDs go below 0.1 W (while SATA hard drives stay at 3-8 W active idle).

Note: If you do anything with "overclocking", then say goodbye to all that power saving efficiency.
 
  


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