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Old 09-15-2007, 04:49 PM   #16
jong357
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dracolich, I think the OP clearly stated his/her intention for this thread...

Quote:
If I could ask one favor of the community, could we please keep this topic on focus,
specific to NetworkManager and/or KNetworkManager, rather than evolving into yet another forum on " ... use this/that other program (kwlan, kwifimanager, wlassistant,wifi-radar ...etc...)", thanks very much in advance.
Let's try to avoid comments like that. The thread is here to discuss networkmanager and knetwork manager only. We've all heard the "Slackware philosophy" debate. That's not what we are discussing. We are discussing on how to get networkmanager/knetworkmanager running properly on Slackware and that's pretty much it.

Besides, I have been using a case in type of script just as you describe for quite some time. It's not an original concept on Slack. Networkmanager does everything for you. All you have to do is unplug your ethernet cable. I'd say that wins over a home brewed script.

Last edited by jong357; 09-15-2007 at 04:55 PM.
 
Old 09-16-2007, 05:46 AM   #17
psychicist
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I would like to add that the fact that Networkmanager and KNetworkmanager are being added does not necessarily mean that you have to install and use them. It's a convenience that is being added because we also want less knowledgeable people to be able to use Slackware instead of them having to resort to other distributions. These projects tend to be very much developed out of the big corporate distributions and depend on distribution-specific patches to be applied, which makes it more difficult to get these things running on the likes of Slackware, that are more technically pure.

That's what I said when I mentioned "proprietary open source". In my opinion it's a bad way to make your distribution more palatable to your target demography, don't compete on merit but thrive on marketing, keeping things to yourself in an unnatural way, essentially the MS model. It's a model gone horribly wrong, but understandable from a financial perspective (and only from that perspective). Are we really waiting for a monopoly to be replaced by a Red Hat/SUSE duopoly with the likes of Canonical, Mandriva and Slackware as fringe players, not for technical but marketing reasons? That's why I'm hoping Sun will get Opensolaris to a more user-friendly state, since its lack of ease of use seems to be the primary reason to choose any of the "enterprise" Linux distributions nowadays. It wouldn't be too bad either if it were released under GPL v3.

I don't want to discredit any of the developers at Red Hat or SUSE. They are doing a fine job improving the software by creating bug fixes and adding features. But I have never been convinced by the distributions itself these corporations have created. That's what drives me to put in all the hard work to get Slackware to a state where it *can* at least be used by a normal user without being told "Install OpenSUSE or (K)ubuntu. It just works. Don't bother with the rest, it is too difficult to use".

Jong357, have you got any further with the Networkmanager build scripts I sent you?
 
Old 09-16-2007, 07:59 AM   #18
dracolich
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Quote:
We've all heard the "Slackware philosophy" debate. That's not what we are discussing.
You're right. That's not the topic of this discussion. And sorry if you took it out of context, but, as H_TeXMeX_H earlier mentioned
Quote:
Also, I seriously doubt it will ever be included in any Slackware release ... Slackware is simply not like that. If you want a distro like that ... try one of the other 1,000 distros out there ...
it's just a possible explanation for the lack of already built Slackware packages.

Maybe this'll help someone, a link to a Slack12 package for dhcdbd-2.8

http://www.slacky.eu/index.php?optio...2189&Itemid=56

Has anyone tried getting a binary rpm of networkmanager/knetworkmanager and running rpm2tgz on it? I got the fc5 version of 0.6.4-1 from here

http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pu...pdates/5/i386/

and it almost works. It looks for libdbus-1.so.2 but you can make a symlink from whatever version you have. Then it looks for libiw.so.28. That's where I stoppped.
 
Old 09-16-2007, 08:16 AM   #19
psychicist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dracolich View Post
it's just a possible explanation for the lack of already built Slackware packages.

Maybe this'll help someone, a link to a Slack12 package for dhcdbd-2.8

http://www.slacky.eu/index.php?optio...2189&Itemid=56
I already have dhcdbd 3.0 packages and have sent the build scripts for libnl, dhcdbd, networkmanager and knetworkmanager to jong357.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dracolich View Post
Has anyone tried getting a binary rpm of networkmanager/knetworkmanager and running rpm2tgz on it? I got the fc5 version of 0.6.4-1 from here

http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pu...pdates/5/i386/

and it almost works. It looks for libdbus-1.so.2 but you can make a symlink from whatever version you have. Then it looks for libiw.so.28. That's where I stoppped.
Why do all kinds of major RPM hacking when you can use the source and build it yourself? That's the same reason why Linuxpackages.net is such a useless collection of software. They may have good intentions, but it's not very well executed. I'd only use it for the occasional package that I really couldn't get to build and then only on x86 and x86_64.
 
Old 09-16-2007, 10:00 AM   #20
jong357
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I haven't had time to look at those scripts. I plan on doing it today.

I agree that you'll probably never see networkmanager included in Slackware. I'm really only interested in making it an easy thing to turn off and on as psychicist stated. Personally, I happen to agree that it doesn't really match stride with how Slackware works, so if I were to put any time and effort into working on it, it would be "optional". I'm more on the "purist" side like many others seems to be, so if you work on a package or set of packages that doesn't seem to have a niche in Slack, it needs to be purely optional and not screw with any existing functions of Slackware. You walk a fine line with stuff like this.

Anyhoo... I'll have a look see today. I briefly looked at them yesterday and started to get that over whelming feeling to bail... I hate software that doesn't "just work" out of the box...

psychicist, how far did you get? What wasn't working? Any info you could impart to bring me up to speed would help...
 
Old 09-16-2007, 10:20 AM   #21
H_TeXMeX_H
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I think in this case 'it just works' means, it works while other distros don't quite work as they should despite all of their auto-config tools. I'm not sure anything exists that 'just works out of the box' ... that's a much taller order. I mean, you will eventually have to do some manual configuration because no wizard is smart enough to do it for you. (If wizards really did exist, I'm sure they would have just turned me into a frog or a rat ... of course I'm talking about software wizard programs.)
 
Old 09-16-2007, 11:32 AM   #22
thil7
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NetworkManager get very good improvement in next release (0.7).
- better support of static IP
- removed dhcdbd dependency and some libgnome dependencies
- more http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManagerToDo

If you have build script, I will try it when 0.7 code freeze...

thanks
 
Old 09-16-2007, 11:56 AM   #23
psychicist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jong357 View Post
psychicist, how far did you get? What wasn't working? Any info you could impart to bring me up to speed would help...
I have to say I am not a GNOME user (I tend to run XFCE, KDE and Windowmaker), but that didn't/doesn't prevent me from packaging it up. I have to agree with P.V. here that building and maintaining GNOME packages is a time-consuming job.

The only thing I didn't manage to build was KNetworkmanager because of an obscure define error with "__u64": http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-ne...ry/000089.html. So if you're running GNOME (as you probably do) you're set to go with everything I sent you. BTW I have run into some issues building and running GNOME packages myself (e.g. my KDE menu is totally messed up and missing things with GNOME installed) so you could probably help me with that.
 
Old 09-16-2007, 12:05 PM   #24
b0uncer
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I don't see the point in using (k)networkmanager, when you can easily build customized scripts to satisfy all your needs - doesn't need KDE, for example. For example you could have a script 'wifi' that you linked/put into /usr/bin/ for example (for easy execution), and then use it for example like 'wifi homelan connect'. Of course it's up to you to build the script (or ask a friend do it), but in my opinion it's more flexible and a lot easier than having a separate program do it (especially when a lot of "programs" seem nowadays to be just front-ends to iwconfig, wpa_supplicant etc.)

Even though one usually gets two to twenty different kinds of wireless managers when doing a full installation of some distribution X (doesn't apply to every distro, like Ubuntu, but to most of them anyway) and most of those programs actually work, I still find having a script easier. A lazy ass could even make the script be able to sniff available networks and connect to whatever is available, and even lazier ass could probably spend some time and have the script run every time the wireless card was powered up by the button that exists in most laptops. Something like that. Do it yourself and learn, or have the ready cake and remember to call the Helpdesk when you turn 50
 
Old 09-16-2007, 02:48 PM   #25
jong357
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I get the feeling no one reads previous posts before replying... This is probably better off to discuss via email it would seem. When every other posts goes off topic, it's hard to read for anyone who IS interested in networkmanager.

Gnome-2.20.0 comes out tomorrow so I think I'm going to wait on networkmanager until I have that up and running. psychicist, If you have avahi working, I could use some help there. I've always skipped over it because I never saw a need for it. Got it installed but I keep getting:

Timeout reached while waiting for return value
Could not receive return value from daemon process.
 
Old 09-16-2007, 03:11 PM   #26
dracolich
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@b0uncer: jong357 is apparently referring to my post from yesterday:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by jong357
I hate nothing more than walking into a coffee shop and using iwlist to find the network and then using a text editor to modify rc.wireless.conf and then restarting rc.inet1.conf. Pain in the butt. /Quote:

Do what I do: after you've found the information with iwlist, leave rc.wireless.conf alone and make a script to configure the interface - a simple case cluster to tell it where you are and let the script run iwconfig, dhclient or ifconfig. When the script works it's not hard at all to open xterm and type something like "wlan home" or "wlan school".
He hasn't liked any of my ideas either. It's nice to see I'm not the only one who prefers a script that doesn't need X to run and doesn't depend on this-or-that.
 
Old 09-16-2007, 04:29 PM   #27
dizzi
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Hi Lad(ette)s :-)

Good topic. Yup I have been looking for a tool to "monitor" etc my wifi connection and saw NetworkManager (NM) and decided to try it out. The guys at slacky.eu have ready-made packages including dependencies so I downloaded and installed them. Sad to say though I could not get NM to "work" and it worst still, it somehow managed (no pun intented) to screw up my WiFi connection which was working perfectly. Basically with NM and its deps installed, I could no longer connect to the Net via my Wifi network. It appears that NM and Slack 12 are not exactly best of friends at that moment (at least on my machine) but it would be good if the apparent "quirks" are ironed out.

Incidentally I am using WPA and manually run a script containing the relavant commands (ifconfig, dhcpcd and so on) to activate my connection. My wireless card is the Intel PRO/Wireless 3954ABG.

Regards
 
Old 09-16-2007, 06:18 PM   #28
jong357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dracolich View Post
@b0uncer: jong357 is apparently referring to my post from yesterday:

He hasn't liked any of my ideas either. It's nice to see I'm not the only one who prefers a script that doesn't need X to run and doesn't depend on this-or-that.
You guys don't seem to get it. I do exactally the same thing. I have my own script that does pretty much everything for you. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking anyones ideas. This thread was intended to discuss networkmanager and knetworkmanager, not alternatives. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.

This thread is degenerating because people just can't seem to read before they post. It has been mentioned several times by several people that we are discussing networkmanager. Not homemade scripts, not alternative gui programs but NETWORKMANAGER....

The fact that there are so many people coming up with their own scripts indicates there is something lacking in the way Slackware handles networking. We are all re-inventing the wheel coming up with the same stupid script to handle different wireless hotspots and being wired or wireless. Until someone posts their script here that automatically switches from ethernet to wireless when you unplug your ethernet cable, don't bother. Until someone posts their script here that remembers your prefered wireless hotspot and automatically connects to it without ANY input from the user, then don't bother. Even then, don't bother unless it's called NETWORKMANAGER...

I'll continue conversations about NETWORKMANAGER if anyone wants to email me but I think I'm done here. 2 pages of useless and utter CRAP because people don't know how, or care to, read the very first post by the OP.

I've been guilty of spewing the "obtrusive anti-slackware" cliche tons of times but it really gets old. If you don't like networkmanager then just don't use it. Better yet, quit trying to pawn your ideals off on other people who really don't care. The very few of us who understand what this thread is all about get really annoyed at unproductive, off-topic comments like some of you just can't resist to post. Atleast I'm getting annoyed if you cant tell.

If anyone is serious about working on NETWORKMANAGER, get ahold of me. Maybe we can setup some small obscure chat room but this obviously isn't the place to discuss it. Hate to be a dick, but this crap is irritating.

Last edited by jong357; 09-16-2007 at 06:31 PM.
 
Old 09-16-2007, 06:41 PM   #29
jong357
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@psychicist, never mind about avahi. Something stupid on my end. It's fixed. I'll get ahold of you in a few days once I get the new gnome installed and have a chance to tinker some.
 
Old 09-16-2007, 07:28 PM   #30
orbit
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Good Morning Everyone (psychicist and jong357 especially!), I hope everyone has had an enjoyable weekend

I agree with you jong357, that some people just don't seem to read before posting, and that they seem to have a problem staying focused on the issue at hand; a trend that is very frustrating on these forums.

psychisist: I never realised that you had actually gotten NetworkManager to compile, so rather than me wasting time posting my procedures and attempts in getting it to work, if you would like to email your buildscripts to my Email, I'll catch up to you and get NetworkManager built, then we can work on overcoming the KnetworkManager's issues together.

Thank you both very much for your excellent responses on this topic, and also thanks to the other members who have contributed on-topic.

I look forward to further communications with you.

Kind Regards

Orbit

Last edited by orbit; 09-16-2007 at 07:31 PM.
 
  


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