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Old 10-06-2012, 12:10 PM   #16
kikinovak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 688a View Post
According to the following tests, Slackware is almost performing the worest one! ( I don't know what the tests meant actually, I don't care)

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...xdistros&num=1
An interesting "benchmark" test would be: how well do $DISTRIBUTION users cook? I'm sure the average Slackware user makes a better paprika chicken and a better homemade lasagne or bolognese than the average Ubuntu, Fedora or openSUSE user. Granted, there's the LFS and Gentoo folks, but they're so busy studying organic chemistry that they have to order chinese takeout in the meantime.
 
Old 10-06-2012, 03:53 PM   #17
ReaperX7
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The beautiful thing about Slackware I've also found is, regardless how it's setup using Grub, Grub-legacy, LILO, or SysLinux, Slackware caters to everyone by just simply working well in all regards.

I prefer Grub2 because it's showing to be more future-minded with UEFI, GPT, and 64-bit addressing friendly. I actually have no issues with LILO from my own experience. LILO is still a great bootloader for CMOS and MBR PCs. Time will tell if UEFI and GPT will be added along with 64-bit addressing, but if and when, I'm fairly certain Patrick will address it and see if an update is needed.

One good thing I've noticed with Grub is it doesn't have to be reset every time you change the kernel even if the kernel is the same version and namesake if you use the symlinks in grub.cfg (which can be edited with script editors like KATE if you know what to program in).

Personally, real usage trumps benchmarks in every regards and not all benchmarks duplicate real usage.

But the good thing is, with Slackware, you know what you get, and you know what you want for the system, and with the right tools, it can happen.
 
Old 10-07-2012, 06:33 AM   #18
ruario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
One good thing I've noticed with Grub is it doesn't have to be reset every time you change the kernel even if the kernel is the same version and namesake if you use the symlinks in grub.cfg
Nothing special, Syslinux does exactly the same but doesn't have a horrendous configuration file format.

Even in the case of Lilo, all you need do it srun the lilo command once to update after the change. Not sure how this can be considered a big deal.
 
Old 10-07-2012, 06:36 AM   #19
ruario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
I prefer Grub2 because it's showing to be more future-minded with UEFI, GPT, and 64-bit addressing friendly.
Althought its GPT support with BIOS requires you to have to introduce extra complications like a special boot partition because it is so massive.
 
Old 10-07-2012, 03:07 PM   #20
ReaperX7
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Very true. However, most Linux distributions by default recommend using a separate /boot partition anyways. With hard drive space being plentiful anymore, one could create the required /boot partition and not have to worry about size. Most /boot partitions for distributions I've seen that use them all recommend using at least 50-100MB anyway for /boot with a basic file system like EXT2/3/4.

I am surprised at them moment Patrick hasn't added eLILO yet for GPT systems as it is one of the only other bootloaders I forgot to mention that works with GPT partitions and UEFI systems without penalty.

I also noticed someone said GRUB2 has a lot of dependencies... well so does every other piece of software anymore. The dependencies for Grub2 thankfully are very small in size on disk, and should be the least of worries.
 
Old 10-07-2012, 10:30 PM   #21
jjthomas
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FWIW There is a utility with the Slackware installation disk that does allow one to deal with a GPT partition. I had to used it. I don't remember the name. (I'm at work)

Slackware comes as a working basic OS. It come with just about everything one needs to get a working server or desktop. From there we have SlackBuilds.

PS I always set aside a /boot partition for about 256M

-JJ

Last edited by jjthomas; 10-07-2012 at 10:36 PM. Reason: Added /boot info
 
Old 10-08-2012, 01:35 AM   #22
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjthomas View Post
FWIW There is a utility with the Slackware installation disk that does allow one to deal with a GPT partition.
Slackware 14's installer includes fixparts, gdisk, sgdisk and cgdisk as well as a manual page for gdisk in man8.

And Slackware 14 ships gptfdisk in the a/ series:
Quote:
PACKAGE DESCRIPTION:
gptfdisk: gptfdisk (GPT fdisk utilities)
gptfdisk:
gptfdisk: GPT fdisk (consisting of the gdisk, cgdisk, sgdisk, and fixparts
gptfdisk: programs) is a set of text-mode partitioning tools for using a GPT
gptfdisk: (GUID Partition Table), rather than the traditional MBR (Master Boot
gptfdisk: Record) partition tables. It features several partitioning tools,
gptfdisk: recovery tools to help you deal with corrupt partition tables, and the
gptfdisk: ability to convert MBR disks to GPT format.
gptfdisk:
gptfdisk: gdisk home: http://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/
gptfdisk:
PS http://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/ is worth reading.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 10-08-2012 at 01:57 AM. Reason: Package description added + PS
 
Old 10-08-2012, 02:21 AM   #23
ruario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
However, most Linux distributions by default recommend using a separate /boot partition anyways. With hard drive space being plentiful anymore, one could create the required /boot partition and not have to worry about size. Most /boot partitions for distributions I've seen that use them all recommend using at least 50-100MB anyway for /boot with a basic file system like EXT2/3/4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjthomas View Post
I always set aside a /boot partition for about 256M
I wasn't talking about a /boot partition. I was talking about the fact that Grub2 requires a "BIOS Boot partition" (partition type EF02 in gfdisk) on GPT setups with BIOS. This is entirely different from /boot and is used only by Grub. Other bootloaders that work with GPT on BIOS (e.g. Syslinux) don't need it.

The "BIOS Boot partition" can be as small as 30 KiB but the general advice on most websites I looked at seems to be that you should make 1 MiB because future boot loaders might require more space and many modern disk partitioning tools have 1 MiB partition alignment policies. The purpose of this partition is that on GPT systems under BIOS, the lack of post-MBR embed gap on GPT disks makes space a little tight. Grub2 works around this by having the first stage of its bootloader look for a "BIOS boot partition" where it stores a second, bigger file. This second stage file includes support for a large set of filesystems. Extlinux however has a different solution. Since it supports fewer filesystems, its first stage is still small enough to include ext2+/btrfs support. It can therefore have the second stage on the /boot partition directly. Of course it still needs to know which partition is the /boot partition and this is done by marking it with a special attribute, which you can think of as being similar to marking a partition as bootable in the MBR world.

@ReaperX7 you tried setting up a Slackware system with GPT? If not check out this thread for more information on GPT and BIOS setups. If you try setting up a machine to use GPT under BIOS you soon realise that extlinux/syslinux is much less hassle. No extra dependencies to be downloaded configured and installed, no extra partitions, a saner config file format, etc. Furthermore the 'advantage' that people claim Grub2 has over Lilo (about not having to reinstall it after each kernel update) is not valid with Extlinux (plus the fact that I don't really consider that an advantage).

The only thing that Grub2 currently has over Syslinux is built in EFI support. However the Syslinux guys are working on EFI support right now. Also Grub2 isn't great on EFI in any case. The EFI/GPT Guru, Rod Smith has this to say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Smith
In my experience, EFI boot loaders capable of booting Linux can be ranked as follows, from best to worst:

1. The kernel's EFI stub loader (in conjunction with rEFInd, if necessary)

2. ELILO

3. Fedora's patched GRUB Legacy

4. GRUB 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Smith
ELILO and GRUB Legacy come in very close to each other in reliability, in my experience. I give the nod to ELILO over GRUB Legacy because ELILO is quite consistently reliable between systems, with one exception (a 32-bit Mac Mini), on which ELILO fails completely. GRUB Legacy, by contrast, is a bit more finicky across the board—it occasionally fails to boot or has system-specific quirks, usually relating to its handling of the display. On the plus side, it works well with that Mac Mini that gives ELILO fits. If you have a choice of boot loaders and if you're not comfortable building a cutting-edge kernel yourself, then IMHO these are the EFI boot loaders to try.

GRUB 2 has been very finicky in my tests, although I haven't checked the latest versions as it's been approaching a 2.0 release. It's possible that it's becoming more reliable by now

Last edited by ruario; 10-08-2012 at 02:57 AM. Reason: Expanded on what bios boot partition is; linked to an old thread; added Rob Smith quotes
 
Old 10-08-2012, 04:50 AM   #24
ruario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjthomas View Post
FWIW There is a utility with the Slackware installation disk that does allow one to deal with a GPT partition. I had to used it. I don't remember the name. (I'm at work)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
Slackware 14 ships gptfdisk in the a/ series
It also ships with parted, and that too can handle GPT.
 
Old 10-10-2012, 09:11 PM   #25
zrdc28
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I prefer lilo by far over grub2 and this is one of the reasons,as you update kernels it writes it to the start-up menu. When you dual boot windows it lists windows along with the recovery partician along with every new kernel and before long you have a dozen different choices, At that point you have to figure out a work around just to get rid of those old kernels and the restore partician. It is not a problem to add to the start-up menu but try to delete, that is where the fun starts!

By the way I did enjoy the article it was very informative!

Last edited by zrdc28; 10-10-2012 at 09:14 PM. Reason: add on
 
Old 10-10-2012, 11:25 PM   #26
ssl779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saulgoode View Post
Another LILO fan here. My mind revolts somewhat at the thought of using a 6 megabyte loader to boot a 4 megabyte kernel. Also, anybody else notice that after more than a decade of hearing from the GRUB camp how burdensome it supposedly was having to run 'lilo' after editing the config file, not a peep of complaint about having to edit a config file and run 'grub-update' for GRUB2?

I am a little disappointed that Slackware 14 did not include GUILE version 2 (it still has v1.8), though it should be no trouble building v2 from Mr Volkerding's Slackbuild since all the required dependencies appear to be met.

LILO is dumb (RAID issues, etc)
GRUB is bloated and unnecessary complicated

Solution: SYSLINUX
Use it on all my PC and servers for few years - works like a charm (can boot from Raid, LVM and so)
 
Old 10-11-2012, 12:20 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssl779 View Post
LILO is dumb (RAID issues, etc)
GRUB is bloated and unnecessary complicated

Solution: SYSLINUX
Use it on all my PC and servers for few years - works like a charm (can boot from Raid, LVM and so)
I have a pure LVM setup with a LILO bootsector on the first sector of the LVM PV (Type 8E). It loads the kernel and initrd from the root LV. How is this supposed to work with SYSLINUX?
 
Old 10-13-2012, 01:35 AM   #28
ssl779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
I have a pure LVM setup with a LILO bootsector on the first sector of the LVM PV (Type 8E). It loads the kernel and initrd from the root LV. How is this supposed to work with SYSLINUX?
Create a first partition about 100 to 200Mb just for booting. It is ext3 filesystem with SYSLINUX there.
This way you can easy boot the weirdest configuration one can ever imagine.
On my servers it is LVM on top of RAID-1
 
Old 10-13-2012, 03:17 AM   #29
jtsn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssl779 View Post
Create a first partition about 100 to 200Mb just for booting.
The partition table is already full, so there is no space for that. With an extra partition, you can also use GRUB Legacy, GRUB4DOS or whatever you like. The point in using LILO is, that it doesn't need that. Just 512 bytes of a bootsector, map and kernels reachable by BIOS INT 13h and you're fine. You can even partition a 3 TB disk using GPT and boot it just fine with a LILO in the protective MBR.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 07:01 AM   #30
GazL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssl779 View Post
Create a first partition about 100 to 200Mb just for booting. It is ext3 filesystem with SYSLINUX there.
I thought syslinux used a DOS FAT filesystem?
 
  


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