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Old 08-20-2016, 03:53 PM   #31
the3dfxdude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
lolwut?

I'm actually 100 percent sure that there haven't been. But do link to that thread if I'm wrong.
I saw your quick edit-out. Very deceptive. I suggest you get on-topic.
 
Old 08-20-2016, 03:57 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the3dfxdude View Post
It is extremely easy to rebuild the packages ...since almost everyone is used to the concept of a slackbuild script. There are others that have said they were successful.
The part I edited out? You mean the part where I quoted and responded to this? I decided that I wanted to see your ridiculous "there were people offering systemd" claim addressed before we moved onto that.

Well, the 3dfxdude, given what you wrote there, I don't see what you're whining about.

And I'm going to edit my posts through as many drafts as I want. Deal with it.

Last edited by dugan; 08-20-2016 at 04:13 PM.
 
Old 08-20-2016, 04:02 PM   #33
svenyun
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Quote:
Disabling it should be good enough. We spent a good amount of time making sure of that before adding it.
And yet there are obviously situations where disabling it does not in fact disable it. As mentioned by already, something can still trigger PA to start, and it can cause problems. I experimented with and without PA, it is easily removed so I did not keep it. I figure it will eventually get resolved and I will use it then.


Quote:
Oh btw, the3dfxdude, I really can't see what you're doing other than whining.
He's simply pointing out that it is not as easy to fully disable PA, as the official "fix" suggests.
 
Old 08-20-2016, 04:04 PM   #34
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenyun View Post
He's simply pointing out that it is not as easy to fully disable PA, as the official "fix" suggests.
In that case, all we need is better documentation on how to disable PA. Since the official procedures were written, people have tested them and found that they need to be revised. Perhaps a page on SlackDocs?

Last edited by dugan; 08-20-2016 at 04:10 PM.
 
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Old 08-20-2016, 04:14 PM   #35
the3dfxdude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
The part I edited out? You mean the part where I quoted and responded to this? I decided that I wanted to see your ridiculous "there were people offering systemd" claim addressed before we moved onto that.

Well, the 3dfxdude, given what you wrote there, I don't see what you're whining about.

And I'm going to edit my posts through as many drafts as I want. Deal with it.
Editing is one thing. But I guess if you weren't going to stand by what you edited out completely, then I honestly, I can't help but laugh at you. There is clearly no other point you can make here.
 
Old 08-20-2016, 04:16 PM   #36
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the3dfxdude View Post
Editing is one thing. But I guess if you weren't going to stand by what you edited out completely, then I honestly, I can't help but laugh at you. There is clearly no other point you can make here.
The posts that are currently on the forum, as of now, contain every point they've made across every draft. I'm now genuinely curious as to what you think you're talking about or what you think is still missing.

Do note, btw, that I've already made a follow-up post to "stand by" what you criticized me for editing out. It was, in fact, the very post you were responding to. So, again, I don't know what you think you're talking about.

Now, are you going to "stand by" your claim that there were people offering systemd for Slackware? Or are you going to keep evading, deflecting and changing the subject from it the way you did in your last two posts? All you need to do to defend it is post one link.

Last edited by dugan; 08-20-2016 at 04:35 PM.
 
Old 08-20-2016, 05:04 PM   #37
svenyun
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Systemd is part of the gnome3 for slackware isn't it? I remember reading several posts about getting it to run under slackware, but maybe it was the same person(s) doing gnome3 for slackware.
 
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Old 08-20-2016, 05:08 PM   #38
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenyun View Post
Systemd is part of the gnome3 for slackware isn't it? I remember reading several posts about getting it to run under slackware, but maybe it was the same person(s) doing gnome3 for slackware.
That's an interesting point.

The Dropline people have their own forum, mailing list, etc. I would have thought that their "how" discussion would have taken place there?

Actually, isn't bassmadrigal (one of the people posting in this thread) part of the Dropline team?

(And there isn't a different gnome3-for-Slackware project that I don't know about, is there?)

The Dropline team has maintained an excellent relationship with LQ for many, many years now. The last time I could imagine them getting the "what's wrong with the base system?!!!" reception that the3dfxdude described was before this decade and well before systemd was a thing.

Last edited by dugan; 08-20-2016 at 05:20 PM.
 
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Old 08-20-2016, 07:02 PM   #39
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Now, are you going to "stand by" your claim that there were people offering systemd for Slackware? Or are you going to keep evading, deflecting and changing the subject from it the way you did in your last two posts? All you need to do to defend it is post one link.
Dlackware offers systemd, PAM, and Gnome3 for Slackware. I believe it was put together by bartgymnast, but github lists belka-ew as well with earlier commits than bartgymnast, so maybe it was just announced on LQ by bartgymnast. I've never used it, but I have seen a few posts on the forum about it over the last year or so

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Actually, isn't bassmadrigal (one of the people posting in this thread) part of the Dropline team?
Nope, I'm definitely not part of the Dropline team (I'm not nearly that smart). I haven't used gnome or any of it's offshoots in over a decade. I'm a KDE man, through and through, with the occasional XFCE use if I break something in KDE.

===============================

Sorry to come back in here after I said I was done, but I wish we could just drop the HATE for pulseaudio. Yes, I realize some don't like it and would like to see it gone from Slackware, and they'll do what they need to on their own systems. Yes, I think it is perfectly acceptable to discuss the removal of pulseaudio from the system (it'd be great if someone covered in detail what needs to be done on the SlackWiki).

But... what I would love to see gone is all the name-calling and trash-throwing associated with pulse. If you don't like it, that's fine. If it doesn't work properly for you and you're unwilling to try and diagnose it to provide Slackware developers valuable info, that's fine. But can we get over being childish and rude with pulse? This thread stayed relatively clean until post #7, with that, we start seeing other posts talking about manipulation, PoS, purging, insanity, etc. This type of language hurts our image and should stop. There are plenty of things about Slackware that people don't necessarily like on their system, but pulse has brought out the child in a few and it I believe it lowers the friendliness and levelheadedness that this forum is known for.

We can discuss removing pulse, KDE, non-GPL stuff, or even X on this forum without problems, but lets try to keep to the information that's needed and try to keep things professional. As ppr:kut said (likely echoed by other Slackware devs, although, I don't remember), pulse is not likely to go anywhere, so if some users are hell-bent on removing it, let's discuss it in a calm and collected manner. It would be great if a SlackWiki page could be created with the instructions on how to disable pulseaudio, and, if desired, how to remove it completely with a list of packages that needs to be recompiled. This is the type of image we'd like to portray to the world. We may not all agree with everything Pat and team does, but It's great if we're calm and collected and provide alternatives to the things we don't like rather than just bashing software and developers of things we don't like.

I'll get off my soapbox now. Hope I didn't ruffle too many feathers. I wasn't trying to call anyone out specifically, even if I used examples. I still respect you guys, but would just like to see a little less hostility
 
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Old 08-20-2016, 10:28 PM   #40
kingbeowulf
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tl;dr ( well read some posts )

I have mplayer CLI set up to play via ALSA, and gmplayer GUI to play via pulseaudio (PA). Works fine. No need to remove or install anything.

I avoided PA like a dread zombie disease until Slackware 14.2. I have a wide variety of systems here that output audio via analog, HDMI and Display Port, etc. Before PA, each box had to have a custom asound.conf to properly route the audio. Switching, say a laptop from onboard audio to HDMI (for TV playback) was a pain in the ass. Now it's either automagical or 2-3 button clicks on PA mixer. On my main box, with multiple inputa/outputs, mumble, etc., PA solved a lot of audio issues.

I don't want to rehash the whole pulseaudio love/hate nonsense. As mentioned by Slackers I trust (dugen, bassmadrigal, ppr:kut, willysr et al), PA in Slackware works just fine. If a Slackware user can't get it to work OOTB, then he/she needs to just post here with detailed troubleshooting information. Like a real mensch. Instead of whining that PA doesn't work; lest our BLDFL, may he live forever, affixes thee with a stern glare.
 
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Old 08-20-2016, 11:25 PM   #41
the3dfxdude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingbeowulf View Post
tl;dr ( well read some posts )

I have mplayer CLI set up to play via ALSA, and gmplayer GUI to play via pulseaudio (PA). Works fine. No need to remove or install anything.
Good for you. But that mode of operation was not the point of the original posters question.

Quote:
I avoided PA like a dread zombie disease until Slackware 14.2. I have a wide variety of systems here that output audio via analog, HDMI and Display Port, etc. Before PA, each box had to have a custom asound.conf to properly route the audio. Switching, say a laptop from onboard audio to HDMI (for TV playback) was a pain in the ass. Now it's either automagical or 2-3 button clicks on PA mixer. On my main box, with multiple inputa/outputs, mumble, etc., PA solved a lot of audio issues.
Never had to create asound.conf's for my multiple devices, or any of my computers for that matter. Sounds complicated. Glad you solved it.


Quote:
I don't want to rehash the whole pulseaudio love/hate nonsense. As mentioned by Slackers I trust (dugen, bassmadrigal, ppr:kut, willysr et al), PA in Slackware works just fine. If a Slackware user can't get it to work OOTB, then he/she needs to just post here with detailed troubleshooting information. Like a real mensch. Instead of whining that PA doesn't work; lest our BLDFL, may he live forever, affixes thee with a stern glare.
Now you are mischaracterizing what I and other are saying. I said to the original posters question, that recompiling is the solution to his problem with mplayer and similar apps that had been linked to pulseaudio.

This isn't about whining.

This isn't about saying pulseaudio isn't an OOTB solution.

This isn't about questioning what others use, or the relevance of pulseaudio in Slackware.

This isn't love/hate non-sense.

And likely in some people's cases they aren't even calling pulseaudio broken either.

All that happened is that some people want to be fully in control with ALSA and not pulseaudio. And the choice is made, done, easy. There are practical reasons for this out there, feel free to look them up!

If you worship some preconceived notion that someone asking a question that is part of kind of anti-pulseaudio agenda, therefore attacking them as whiners, you're adding to the stigma that plagues this forum.
 
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Old 08-20-2016, 11:51 PM   #42
the3dfxdude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
Sorry to come back in here after I said I was done, but I wish we could just drop the HATE for pulseaudio. Yes, I realize some don't like it and would like to see it gone from Slackware, and they'll do what they need to on their own systems. Yes, I think it is perfectly acceptable to discuss the removal of pulseaudio from the system (it'd be great if someone covered in detail what needs to be done on the SlackWiki).
Please stop characterizing the removal of pulseaudio == hate. It doesn't mean that at all. It's a terrible way to reach out to us.

Second, you have mentioned again "it'd be great if someone covered". It seems you aren't familiar what is already done:
http://docs.slackware.com/howtos:mul...io_non-default

Honestly, that seems to cover pretty much every known aspect. It's not written step-by-step because there are multiple choices that could be made, but someone can make it step-by-step.

If you can read through that, you can see a bit of the trouble involved, with what is written under Changes related to X11. So again, you can see it's not really about hate, but that the choice in the matter is more nuanced due to how pulseaudio behaves. If there really is a better solution, to make pulseaudio a real dumb pipe to alsa, then it is not known. But even if there is an improved version that comes along that gets out of the way better, that won't land until some future stable cycle. So we are stuck with whatever is recommended there already, I think.
 
Old 08-21-2016, 08:48 AM   #43
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the3dfxdude View Post
Please stop characterizing the removal of pulseaudio == hate. It doesn't mean that at all. It's a terrible way to reach out to us.
If you read my post thoroughly, you'd know I wasn't characterizing the removal of pulseaudio with hate, but rather what some users portray when they discuss pulseaudio (whether they remove it or not). When verbiage like manipulation, PoS, purging, insanity, etc. are seen in many posts involving pulseaudio, it doesn't shine a good light on the members of this forum. Can't we discuss the removal of pulseaudio without using stuff like that? In general, we're able to discuss removing KDE without talking about what a bloated PoS it is (not my words -- which some do feel that way, while others are fine with what it does and the resources it uses).

Quote:
Originally Posted by the3dfxdude View Post
Second, you have mentioned again "it'd be great if someone covered". It seems you aren't familiar what is already done:
http://docs.slackware.com/howtos:mul...io_non-default
No, I wasn't familiar with this. It's good to see work has been done towards it, however, if the wiki page doesn't cover everything, it should be edited so it does. Then, for those people who want to remove pulseaudio, they can just be provided the wiki page rather than a bunch of people talking about how bad pulseaudio is for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the3dfxdude View Post
If there really is a better solution, to make pulseaudio a real dumb pipe to alsa, then it is not known.
Yet, even though I view every post on this forum, this thread is the first I recall people stating that pulse doesn't stay disabled if you do the steps suggested by Pat and team (but, my memory isn't what it used to be, so I may have forgotten about a post). This type of stuff should be brought up, because if something isn't acting as expected, I'm sure Pat and team would like to figure out why, so they can hopefully get it resolved.

However, in the wiki, they mention using libapulse after removing pulseaudio. That should, theoretically, allow the removal of pulseaudio, without recompiling anything. I haven't seen any posts discussing whether this works or doesn't.

I totally understand that pulseaudio isn't for everyone, and we can certainly discuss the removal of it, but if we could just leave the posts professional rather than childish with name-calling, it would make this a much happier place.

Last edited by bassmadrigal; 08-22-2016 at 07:19 AM. Reason: Missed opening quote tag
 
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Old 08-22-2016, 07:12 AM   #44
igadoter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STDOUBT View Post
As for igadoter, have you simply tried making sure mplayer is using ALSA by
checking in /etc/mplayer/mplayer.conf for:
Code:
##################
# audio settings #
##################

# Specify default audio driver (see -ao help for a list).
#ao=oss
ao=alsa
?
Why this doesn't work at command line? -ao alsa is also command line option for mplayer.
 
Old 08-22-2016, 07:24 AM   #45
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Thank you all for posts. The first answer is all I need. I am closing this. Long Live the King.
 
  


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