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Old 04-10-2014, 07:04 AM   #151
irgunII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
So this is the new systemd discussion sub-forum now? The whole topic isn't related to Slackware in any way.
It affects what Patrick and the other devs of Slackware think will or should be done with future versions of Slackware. It affects the *users* and how they believe things should go with Slackware and Linux as a whole.

This thread is about a topic that's important in *any* Linux distro forum.
 
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:21 AM   #152
EYo
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Originally Posted by qweasd View Post
The way I see it (with my prophet hat on), this adaption can only result in two outcomes: either systemd becomes a superior product everyone would like to use, or it crashes, burns, and gets replaced by something better
Curious why you think RHT will not use GNOME OS as GOOG uses Android? Any past behavior to indicate they won't deal with OEMs in the same manner?

Seems there are only a few not interested in building Yet Another Non-free ecosystem. YAN OS, boring as hell.

4. Profit!

Whew, finally.
 
Old 04-10-2014, 07:38 AM   #153
irgunII
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Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
A lot of distros are probably blind to what is going on and only want a cheap and easy solution to an alternative to sysvinit, nothing more. The problem is most are too blindsided by this to realize what is at stake in the long term, the rest are completely clueless.

By the time they realize it's too late to go back, they won't be able to. In the end, I dare say it, Gentoo, LFS, and Slackware might be the only true GNU/Linux based operating systems left, as the rest could very well fizzle out and be absorbed by Red Hat and merely become cheap clones of one another.
Which again reminds me of the Borg thing someone brought up, and IMHO, the first to have fallen into it and given up the true Linux standards ship, was, Ubuntu and it's gazillion little dumb offshoots, though openSUSE was playing it hardcore too by joining up with M$ in their own little ways (which is one of the reasons I left openSUSE/SuSE).
 
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:52 PM   #154
kikinovak
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According to the german newspaper "Der Spiegel", a german developer was responsible for the Heartbleed disaster. I just had to double-check the developer's name. But no.
 
Old 04-10-2014, 06:58 PM   #155
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I think systemd will eventually end up as GNOME OS (or LinuxOS Core), and then many distributions will be either locked into the new system or they'll have to scrub out everything and start all over from scratch.

Many distributions will probably just knuckle under and change to GNOME OS and loose themselves inside the impending disaster. When that happens, I think one of two things is going to happen. Someone is going to make a play to fork the Linux kernel into their own kernel and force GNOME OS (Linux OS Core) to use their kernel they have to risk loss of functionality within the system (much akin to how Android OS operates), and/or Linus Torvalds and the rest of the kernel developers are going to finally nuke support of udev and go back to officially using DevFS+Hotplug. if done early it could theoretically kill systemd completely.

After it's all said and done should that happen, GNU/Linux will be a very bare landscape with only a handful of distributions still using the original GNU/Linux design while the rest move on to GNOME OS (Linux OS Core). LFS, Gentoo, CRUX, and Slackware, as well as other holdouts and spinoffs of those, will basically be left. Over time, do expect, if that does happen, to see various distributions fall out due to there being no distinctions between distributions. After that just expect things to end up like Mandriva Linux where there is no free OS released and you have to buy releases and licenses to use their product.
 
Old 04-11-2014, 09:54 PM   #156
briselec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
That's what it sounds like from this quote by LP:

A complete makeover/takeover of Linux. A Borg-style assimilation.
I'm not a fan of LP, but in this instance I think a lot have misinterpreted what he said.

Reading it in context, I don't think by "we" he meant only the systemd developers. I believe he was referring to the developers of all the core components that together form the Linux OS.
 
Old 04-11-2014, 10:02 PM   #157
descendant_command
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briselec View Post
I'm not a fan of LP, but in this instance I think a lot have misinterpreted what he said.

Reading it in context, I don't think by "we" he meant only the systemd developers.
Really?
Quote:
I believe he was referring to the developers of all the core components that together form the Linux OS.
Which are all being folded into/replaced by systemd...
 
Old 04-11-2014, 10:06 PM   #158
astrogeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briselec View Post
I'm not a fan of LP, but in this instance I think a lot have misinterpreted what he said.

Reading it in context, I don't think by "we" he meant only the systemd developers. I believe he was referring to the developers of all the core components that together form the Linux OS.
So when did all the core developers get together and agree to this, and appoint LP their spokesperson?

I mean seriously, by what presumed authority does LP speak for all core developers?
 
Old 04-11-2014, 10:15 PM   #159
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He never was. Kay was the main culprit because his udev was such a core function. When systemd absorbed udev, ConsoleKit, and various other Freedesktop projects, and forcibly semi-deprecated the stand-alones, it sent Lennart on a virtual power trip and now he feels he is all important, all knowing, and knows what's best for Linux in general, when in truth, he's about as clueless as the next moron out there.

Lennart is nothing a narsacistic megalomaniac with an over bloated ego, if not possibly, but likely, a sociopath on some level. If his bubble were to ever be popped he'd probably go ballistic.

I'd be glad if more systems picked up eudev. It's smaller, works exactly the same, and doesn't create a hard system dependency. Combine that with possibly an advanced init system like Runit, s6, or OpenRC for faster loading of daemons and startup services and service management, and you'd never even have to worry about systemd even being near viable for usage.

Last edited by ReaperX7; 04-11-2014 at 10:28 PM.
 
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:16 PM   #160
hitest
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
Lennart is nothing a narsacistic megalomaniac with an over bloated ego, if not possibly, but likely, a sociopath on some level.
Really? A sociopath? I have a BA in Psychology so I know what it means to be a sociopath.
Is that an accurate characterization of Lennart?
 
Old 04-11-2014, 11:26 PM   #161
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest View Post
Is that an accurate characterization of Lennart?
I doubt it, just another bashing episode.
 
Old 04-12-2014, 04:14 AM   #162
Smokey_justme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briselec View Post
I'm not a fan of LP, but in this instance I think a lot have misinterpreted what he said.

Reading it in context, I don't think by "we" he meant only the systemd developers. I believe he was referring to the developers of all the core components that together form the Linux OS.
I agree..
However his actions do prove otherwise.. Have you seen them helping or giving a damn about what other developers from other projects do when systemd creates a problem? Sure, on projects that make them a hard-dependency or at least a soft one.. They do seem to like those projects (and that's a good think, no doubt), but did you see them caring about any other project? Even the Linux kernel in which they want to implement kdbus!? Cause I didn't and Linus yelling at them in public, even after keeping his silence about them for years because their project (systemd) is so controversial, is a clear sign that I'm not the only one not seeing this..
They more likely seem to be in an angry competition with every project that is deemed more important then theirs.. Imagine if the Kernel guys would code the same way and break user-land apps without caring when those people complain..
 
Old 04-12-2014, 03:18 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briselec View Post
I'm not a fan of LP, but in this instance I think a lot have misinterpreted what he said.

Reading it in context, I don't think by "we" he meant only the systemd developers. I believe he was referring to the developers of all the core components that together form the Linux OS.
Uh, Lennart now calls systemd the Core OS. So when he says "we" are developing a core OS these days, he is talking about systemd. So "we" is his gang, and his response literally is showing his disregard for other people, and not inclusive of the Linux ecosystem. I still don't know why people continue to be apologetic of him, because his alienation tactics, including to users, have been going on for a long time now.

"Systemd as the Core OS, by Lennart Poettering"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2aa34Uzr3c
 
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:13 PM   #164
irgunII
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Originally Posted by hitest View Post
Really? A sociopath? I have a BA in Psychology so I know what it means to be a sociopath.
Is that an accurate characterization of Lennart?
Pure experience with people like LP doesn't take a BA or even a PHd (Phd? pHD?...), it only takes observation. I've known too many people who throw their big IQ numbers around and haven't s single iota of common sense, these are doctors ranging from Neurosurgeons to Gynecologists etc and also a couple of shrinks (how have I met and seen and known all these people? My dad's a retired medical doctor and I was around all these other people all through my years up until he retired when I was 42). It isn't science to see an megalomaniac and it isn't science to know and have seen that many megalomaniacs do *NOT* cope well with being shown they aren't 'all that'.
 
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:34 PM   #165
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irgunII View Post
Pure experience with people like LP doesn't take a BA or even a PHd (Phd? pHD?...), it only takes observation.
Yeah, I have worked with managers who exhibit psychopathic tendencies. The reason I asked is because labeling someone as a sociopath is quite a scathing indictment. A sociopath/psychopath is someone who has no remorse or moral center at all. Someone like this has no hesitation to do whatever it takes to get what they want (murder, extortion, threats, intimidation). I think it is more likely that LP is an a**hole rather than a sociopath/psychopath.
 
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