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Old 04-09-2014, 02:59 PM   #136
qweasd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
So we have to ask ourselves, I think, if at some point in the not too distant future, only Slackware, BSD, and possibly Gentoo, are left NOT using these "contributions", can we (Slackware users) be marginalized to the point of evaporation? Also, is it possible to get some element of the kernel code to favor systemd, and over time, completely eschew SysV?
OK, let's just try to discuss this in a pleasant, non-confrontational way (I am not pointing fingers at anyone, least of all at enorbet). After all, Kay S. ain't in this forum, so any kind of hostility, fair or not, would be entirely misplaced here.

Let's just enjoy the divine leadership of Pat V. and "Bob" and other core contributors, who we know won't transition us to an inferior init, and will upgrade us to systemd or any kind of modern init system once it's shown to be superior. And frankly, all this hullabaloo about "major" distributions switching is over nothing. It does not imply that any software in Slackware will become dependent on systemd in a way that cannot be fixed. The way I see it (with my prophet hat on), this adaption can only result in two outcomes: either systemd becomes a superior product everyone would like to use, or it crashes, burns, and gets replaced by something better. If Kay and Lennart continue with their blaze attitude, people may start asking pretty soon: who will maintain systemd once they move on? Because it looks like they are designing it very much to their own liking, and tend to ignore the needs of the wider community. And forgive me for speculating (I am no OS developer, not even close), but it also looks like systemd is turning into a monster with 1000 tentacles, and will be quite hard to maintain.

Looking very far in the future, I can see that Linux itself won't be in the limelight forever. Something more modular, secure, and stable will eventually replace it. It will cost a few cycles, but thanks to Moore's law, no one will care. So systemd is already doomed by design, and I think many people in this forum can find some solace in that
 
Old 04-09-2014, 03:10 PM   #137
55020
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Originally Posted by brianL View Post
A Borg-style assimilation.
That's an insult to the Borg. "We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own", they always say. The thing systemd most despises is our technological distinctiveness...
 
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Old 04-09-2014, 03:12 PM   #138
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May the Borg accept my sincere and heartfelt apologies.
 
Old 04-09-2014, 03:22 PM   #139
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SystemDOS thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
OK. Serious Slackware Linux Discussion - There is some evidence that "Lenny and the Boys" are not content with just building an alternative init system. nor confining themselves to positive attractions (read "underhanded 5th column stuff" if you like) but instead are determined to achieve some kind of Grand Unification, a Core OS.
That is the point, why it is off topic here in this subforum or even on LQ completely. They're building an OS, let's call it SystemDOS. It doesn't belong here. Or should I start a thread about Windows 8.1 reintroducing the start menu?

Quote:
So we have to ask ourselves, I think, if at some point in the not too distant future, only Slackware, BSD, and possibly Gentoo, are left NOT using these "contributions", can we (Slackware users) be marginalized to the point of evaporation?
Linux distributions are born and die off all the time. Slackware outlived them all. That's good enough for me.
 
Old 04-09-2014, 05:19 PM   #140
unSpawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
I'm afraid that this kind of thread doesn't make us Slackers appear like smart and nice people to newcomers.
IMO it is never wrong to question things and think about how to improve it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
Because there are others who still post into this thread, including moderators.
I remind you moderators may wish to participate in discussions like any regular member would. Their message should clarify if it's part of the discussion or if they're posting in their role of LQ moderator.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
PV and the LQ staff don't seem to agree with you as they've let this thread go and don't seem to object to it (9 pages on).
Please do not try to divine what LQ moderators think. If one needs a verdict all one has to do is use the report button and ask.


To all who participate: please keep this thread on topic from now on.
 
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Old 04-09-2014, 06:00 PM   #141
k3lt01
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[moderated]

@Unspawn, you posted while I was writing my post up. I will stick to systemd and the kernel from now on.

Last edited by unSpawn; 04-09-2014 at 06:36 PM.
 
Old 04-09-2014, 06:41 PM   #142
unSpawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
@Unspawn, you posted while I was writing my post up.
I can not allow anyone to try and wedge a last message in after what I wrote. The most favorable course of action, upon noticing my post, would have been for you to edit your post. I have done so for you. If you do not understand the reason you are invited to email me.

Thanks for keeping this thread on topic.
 
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Old 04-09-2014, 06:51 PM   #143
ReaperX7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
That's what it sounds like from this quote by LP:

A complete makeover/takeover of Linux. A Borg-style assimilation.
Lennart first trashed *BSD for how stale they've become by having an integrated OS and Kernel, but he then wants to make systemd into nothing more than an integrated userland like BSD on top of a Linux kernel...

Might I say it loud and proud... HYPOCRITE!
 
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Old 04-09-2014, 06:56 PM   #144
enorbet
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Greetings
I see a few posts here wherein people express the view that they will be unaffected no matter what systemd does to Linux as we know it. I wish that were true and although I have and have expressed my confidence in Patrick and the Team, Linux is a community and if nothing else can be gleaned by how the Majors all fell into line it is that none of them are "an island", completely self-sufficient. I do entertain some doubts we are that exceptional.

The word "superior" contains a value judgment and under that surface is only "different". Whether that is actually superior is an individual estimation. Some people think auto-dependency resolving is superior, and systemd already employs a kind of auto-dependency resolving in the init system and wishes to spread into the entire OpSys via containers. If CoreOS is any indication, they would like the file system for root to be largely read-only and wholesale updates through containers like Docker on steroids, is what I gather. This is a huge change in my estimation and one I view with considerable skepticism, at the very least in SOHO land.

Finally, if you think that it is not possible for what you love and what you have invested so much time and effort into, to just dry up and blow away, just because you see it as being of higher quality..... well all I can say is that History shows otherwise, and I have experienced some of that so maybe I'm guilty of being "once bitten, twice shy", but it still seems prudent to have confidence and stay calm but not take ones eyes "off the bulwarks". Up where there's millions of dollars at stake, these boys "play hardball and slide in spikes high".
 
Old 04-09-2014, 07:00 PM   #145
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
That is the point, why it is off topic here in this subforum or even on LQ completely. They're building an OS, let's call it SystemDOS. It doesn't belong here. Or should I start a thread about Windows 8.1 reintroducing the start menu?
I don't understand. Are you implying Windows forked out of Linux or in some way can affect Slackware? You chose to call it by another name but they choose to call it Linux and it could affect us directly, especially with nudges over time to the kernel. So how does this thread not belong at the very least in Linux, and since there are so few distros left that haven't succumbed to systemd, how is it not germane to Slackware?
 
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Old 04-09-2014, 08:52 PM   #146
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
but it still seems prudent to have confidence and stay calm but not take ones eyes "off the bulwarks". Up where there's millions of dollars at stake, these boys "play hardball and slide in spikes high".
Which is why I believe trusting Linus is capable of controlling, which is his job afterall, the kernel and what goes into it is the only thing the average Linux user needs to worry about. If Linus doesn't allow systemd in, which seems possible now considering he has refused to take anything else from K & L, the distros that have chosen systemd really need to rethink their position.
 
Old 04-09-2014, 09:49 PM   #147
ReaperX7
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A lot of distros are probably blind to what is going on and only want a cheap and easy solution to an alternative to sysvinit, nothing more. The problem is most are too blindsided by this to realize what is at stake in the long term, the rest are completely clueless.

By the time they realize it's too late to go back, they won't be able to. In the end, I dare say it, Gentoo, LFS, and Slackware might be the only true GNU/Linux based operating systems left, as the rest could very well fizzle out and be absorbed by Red Hat and merely become cheap clones of one another.

All systemd devs has to do is develop their own libc standard, incorporate some more subsystems, and fairly soon, they'll have a complete OS core they want dubbed LinuxOS. All they have to do is replace the kmod toolkit and the glibc libraries to be done honestly at this rate.

Last edited by ReaperX7; 04-09-2014 at 11:31 PM.
 
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Old 04-09-2014, 11:46 PM   #148
gezley
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Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
In the end, I dare say it, Gentoo, LFS, and Slackware might be the only true GNU/Linux based operating systems left, as the rest could very well fizzle out and be absorbed by Red Hat and merely become cheap clones of one another.
A bit unfair to Crux, that.
 
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:39 AM   #149
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There will always be others granted, but those will probably be the big names left in the aftermath, if and when it comes.
 
Old 04-10-2014, 03:54 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
If an issue affects only Slackware, it belongs here in the Slackware forum. If it affects all distros, it belongs in the linux-general forum.
I cant disagree with you more. But that is my opinion. I reserve that right. I think that is how Kay should have handled it and Linus. Slackware is just a tool of the many.
 
  


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