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Old 03-13-2013, 10:36 PM   #16
waddles
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A HUGE thanks to All of U. My apologies to Erik for getting lost a bit in his initial explanation which is becoming clearer.
I have never had to nor knew about changing boot order via F-key and that has been since I started way back with Coherent and Unix. So Thanks.
I made the change suggested and yes it has been my intention to put the boot-loader on the MBR of my hdd then boot Ubuntu which is installed on the flash drive. Unfortunately, lilo -t -v comes back with:
...everything fine then...
Boot image: /media/boot/vmlinuz
Fatal: open /media/boot/vmlinuz: No such file or directory
From the file manager (gonna start using it more now) I see that each of the flash drives has a part of it set asside (3GB Ubunto and 8GB Mint) and set to /media/disk-1 and /media/disk as a separate drive where and initrd.img and vmlinuz reside respectively. Since I had not installed these others b4 and just followed the instructions blindly, this seems to be the cause of the failure. Is this where an install on these distros normally puts vmlinuz or have I royally screwed up??
Just modified and tested lilo.conf with image = /media/disk-1/vmlinuz which gave:
...
Boot image: /boot/vmlinuz -> vmlinuz-huge-smp-2.6.37.6-smp
Added Slackware *

Boot image: /media/disk-1/vmlinuz -> boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-29-generic-pae
Fatal: Setup length exceeds 31 maximum; kernel setup will overwrite boot loader
I am presuming that these subdivisions of the flash drive are the installed files of the respective distros.
I'm confused by the naming of the devices containing the files.

Last edited by waddles; 03-13-2013 at 10:40 PM.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 05:29 AM   #17
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waddles View Post
Fatal: Setup length exceeds 31 maximum; kernel setup will overwrite boot loader
This is a problem with the lilo version shipped in Slackware 13.37 (that you are using, I assume, from your kernel version). Try reusing the stuff here:
http://mirrors.slackware.com/slackwa...source/a/lilo/
to rebuild a more recent lilo and install it with upgradepkg.

You could do this that way:
Code:
lftp -c "open http://mirrors.slackware.com/slackware/slackware-14.0/source/a; mirror lilo"
cd lilo
su
chmod +x lilo.SlackBuild
./lilo.SlackBuild
upgradepkg /tmp/lilo*txz
After that, lilo should work.

Oh, and FYI: the /media/disk/ and /media/disk-1/ mount points are set by the auto-mounter of your desktop.

Anyway you are correct in that you should indicate after 'image =' the path to the kernel you want to boot, whatever it be at this time.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 03-14-2013 at 05:35 AM. Reason: instuctions rewritten
 
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:39 PM   #18
waddles
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I can accept that but when I covered the Ubuntu with # and removed them for Mint I get:
...
Boot image: /boot/vmlinuz -> vmlinuz-huge-smp-2.6.37.6-smp
Added Slackware *

Boot image: /media/disk/vmlinuz
Fatal: open /media/disk/vmlinuz: No such file or directory
So something is still not correct.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 01:18 PM   #19
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waddles View Post
Fatal: open /media/disk/vmlinuz: No such file or directory
So something is still not correct.
Yes. You should check that the paths you give in lilo.conf are accurate at time of running lilo.

Would you have checked with:
Code:
ls -l /media/disk/vmlinuz
you would have get the same answer:
Code:
No such file or directory
Still, you do need to upgrade lilo.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 03-14-2013 at 03:22 PM. Reason: "You would have get" or "You would have got"? oh, well...
 
Old 03-14-2013, 03:52 PM   #20
Erik_FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waddles View Post
From the file manager (gonna start using it more now) I see that each of the flash drives has a part of it set asside (3GB Ubunto and 8GB Mint) and set to /media/disk-1 and /media/disk as a separate drive where and initrd.img and vmlinuz reside respectively. Since I had not installed these others b4 and just followed the instructions blindly, this seems to be the cause of the failure. Is this where an install on these distros normally puts vmlinuz or have I royally screwed up??
Those are separate partitions on the flash drive. Each partition is a separate file-system, so each one is mounted separately. They appear as different "drives" in the graphical desktop, which is a bit misleading, since they are really all just parts of the same flash disk.

You normally do want each Linux distro in a separate partition. You will usually see a "boot" directory in each distro's partition that contains the kernel and initrd files. When accessing the partitions from Slackware, each partition is mounted at a different location, so each partition will have a different path in front of "boot". For example "/media/firstname/boot/vmlinuz" and "/media/secondname/boot/vmlinuz". The names created under "/media" are based on each partition's label (textual name) or UUID (uinique serial number). As long as you don't re-format the file-systems on the flash disk those names should always be the same. The UUID is sometimes called a "block ID" and it is the most accurate way to refer to a particular partition. Two different partitions could have the same label, but they won't have the same UUID. Typing UUIDs is difficult. I usually copy and paste them with the mouse. Entering the "blikid" command using a shell prompt will give you a list of the UUIDs for the partitions that are detected.

So, nothing is royally screwed up. You do need to update LILO to boot one of the operating systems (probably Ubuntu). Try not to get too discouraged and work through the errors one at a time.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 11:36 PM   #21
waddles
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Lilo booting to flash drive

@Didier, I believe the names used were correct when I used /media/disk/vmlinuz for accessing filesystem for Mint FD and likewise for the changes when accessing Ubunto FD. Thus I am perplexed why the shorter name 28 characters (<31) should have failed with "no such" not the length error received on Ubuntu.
@Erik, I know my writing is not up to my thinking and appreciate UR covering all the bases which will be helpful to others. I was abit knocked off my thinking when I saw the smaller partitions containing the filesystems and since they are vfat not ext# and the names given were "#G Removable volume" I had initially thought that something was wrong as I had expected the fs in the larger partition and the empty one to have been empty not containing manufacturers files.

I must do a user/superuser backup as it is way overdue b4 downloading anything but need to build a structure for it with either rsync/cp as k3b has disconcerting probs for me as U may have noted. Will be back after testing new lilo.

Last edited by waddles; 03-14-2013 at 11:39 PM.
 
Old 03-15-2013, 02:47 AM   #22
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waddles View Post
I believe the names used were correct when I used /media/disk/vmlinuz for accessing filesystem for Mint FD and likewise for the changes when accessing Ubunto FD
Well, if next time you run lilo you get the same "No such file or directory" message, check with the 'ls' command that you can access these files with the same path you use in lilo.conf. No offense intended but the word "believe" is inappropriate in computerland
 
Old 03-15-2013, 03:47 AM   #23
waddles
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Sorry Didier, substitute think for believe.
Yes, I did do an ls /media/disk and /media/disk-1. I ran
df -h:
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
...
/dev/sdd5 7.6G 2.2G 5.1G 30% /media/disk
/dev/sdc5 2.8G 2.1G 630M 77% /media/disk-1
I didn't know if this would change anything but modified root = /dev/sdd5 in lieu of the UUID=and ran lilo -t -v.
Only got a warning for not including LBA32. This suggests that use of UUID might have been wrong but blkid:
/dev/sdc1: LABEL="KINGSTON" UUID="6E98-297F" TYPE="vfat"
/dev/sdd1: LABEL="USB20FD" UUID="C0D2-2F59" TYPE="vfat" <--Mint
proved it correct.
Will now try a full boot to Mint.
THAT IS embarrising-- forgot to run lilo before booting. No go. Got no suched again after doing so.

Last edited by waddles; 03-15-2013 at 04:04 AM.
 
Old 03-18-2013, 12:44 AM   #24
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OK, I just changed lilo.conf because when I ran fdisk and printed the listing for each flash drive I realized that boot had to be in sd#5 not sd#1. lilo ran perfectly but when I booted Ubuntu I could see something wasn't right before the splash screen came upt requesting user's password. Entering the password caused nothing to happen. Did a power shutdown as nothing else would work. Brought it up trying for Mint. I think I got a glimmer of the splash screen then my display went effectively black tho with a greenish haze, like a residue from the Mint splash/login screen. Again a force power shutdown. A reboot brought it up with the "pre BIOS available" display which hung. Did a complete power down and it came up with the Slackware lilo screen.
Here is the linux stanzas used:
Code:
# Slackware bootable partition config begins
image = /boot/vmlinuz
  root = /dev/sda1
  label = Slackware
  read-only
# Slackware bootable partition config ends
#
# Ubuntu bootable partition config begins
image = /boot/vmlinuz       # /media/disk-1/vmlinuz
#  initrd = /boot/initrd.img
  root = /dev/sdc5          # "UUID=6E98-297F"
  append="rootdelay=20"
  label = Ubuntu
  read-only
# Ubuntu bootable partition config ends
#
# Mint bootable partition config begins
image = /boot/vmlinuz       # /media/disk/vmlinuz
#  initrd = /boot/initrd.img
  root = /dev/sdd5          #"UUID=C0D2-2F59"
  append="rootdelay=30"
  label = Mint
  read-only
# Mint bootable partition config ends
This is the furthest I have gotten and seems to show that this lilo (ver. 22.8) might be OK to use.
Any thoughts on where to go from here other than to download a newer lilo for the moment?
 
Old 03-18-2013, 06:00 AM   #25
waddles
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I spent more time re-reading what Erik had said. I may be mis-reading so I will explain my interpretation. When he said "install lilo" I think he was saying "run lilo". I saw the /mnt and /media and thought that somehow what was being referenced was to be mounted via a mount command like when mounting a cd/dvd.
So what I did next was to set image=/media/boot/vmlinuz for both Ubuntu and Mint which are loaded on flash drives with the boot at sdx5 then ran lilo. That got me this error:
Fatal: open /media/boot/vmlinuz: No such file or directory
Which brings me to a couple of questions:
I put the above identical image= in both stanza for the flash drive OSs. Is lilo smart enough to sort the the commands in each stanza and know that the vmlinuz is different for the 2 OS drives? Is that why I got the error?

And/Or do I need to create a /etc/fstab line for each OS to mount the appropriate sdd5/sdc5 to /media?

When I created the BIOS booting sequence this last time I was surprised that it did not offer both flash drives as alternate bootable devices. Just the PNY. On the previous occasion I used the cdrom, hard drive and just one flash drive. Following that the device manager, Thunar, had /media/disk/... and /media/disk-1/... pointing to the flash drives now it just shows /media/<fdname> for both and it points at sdx1 for both.
I point this out because of the different ways this last booting of the OSs behaved on the display. I haven't checked but my reading brings me to think the initrd.img does not have to be stipulated. Is this wrong for not using them?
THANKS for any help as I am looking at anything which moves to be a problem now LOL.

Last edited by waddles; 03-18-2013 at 06:02 AM.
 
Old 03-18-2013, 07:30 AM   #26
Didier Spaier
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Must read:
man lilo
man lilo.conf

Further recommended readings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LILO_%28boot_loader%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booting
http://duartes.org/gustavo/blog/post...puters-boot-up
http://lateral.netmanagers.com.ar/stories/23.html

Good luck
 
Old 03-18-2013, 10:24 PM   #27
Erik_FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waddles View Post
I spent more time re-reading what Erik had said. I may be mis-reading so I will explain my interpretation. When he said "install lilo" I think he was saying "run lilo".
The "lilo" program that you can run from a Linux operating system is only the "installer" for LILO. The "lilo" installer, configures LILO based on "lilo.conf" and installs the boot software. Almost everything in "lilo.conf" is based on how/where things are at the time that you run the "lilo" command (to install LILO).

LILO has "boot" software that only runs during booting and displays a menu. The file "/boot/map" is part of the boot software, along with the boot sector (usually written to MBR). The boot software does not use or care about file names, file paths or device names. At boot time everything is located based on BIOS disk IDs and sector numbers on disks.

After LILO boot software has loaded the kernel, the "root=" option that was provided in "lilo.conf" is passed to the kernel. LILO doesn't use "root=" and doesn't care if it is correct. The kernel you are booting does care about "root=" since that is how the kernel locates the root file-system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waddles View Post
I saw the /mnt and /media and thought that somehow what was being referenced was to be mounted via a mount command like when mounting a cd/dvd.
Any files that you refer to in "lilo.conf" must be on devices that are mounted at the time that you use the "lilo" command to install LILO. That also means if you have more than one "/boot/vmlinuz" in "lilo.conf" they must be mounted in different locations. For example, "/mnt/ubuntu/boot/vmlinuz", "/mnt/mint/boot/vmlinuz".

You can make sure that you know where the file-systems are mounted by mounting them yourself.

Code:
mkdir /mnt/ubuntu
mkdir /mnt/mint
mount /dev/sdc5 /mnt/ubuntu
mount /dev/sdd5 /mnt/mint
lilo
umount /mnt/mint
umount /mnt/ubuntu
rmdir /mnt/mint
rmdir /mnt/ubuntu
You would need the "lilo.conf" file to refer to the correct file paths.

image = /mnt/ubuntu/boot/vmlinuz
image = /mnt/mint/boot/vmlinuz

The device names that I used in the example, "/dev/sdc5" and "/dev/sdd5", are based on your "lilo.conf" file. I don't know if those are the correct device names. You will need to use the "blkid" command in Slackware to find out the correct device names for mounting the disks in Slackware. Those device names for mounting on Slackware MAY be different than the device names that you need for "root=" in the "lilo.conf" file.

If you let Slackware automatically mount the disks for Ubuntu and Mint then make sure that they are mounted before you use the "lilo" command. Make sure that you know where the disks are mounted. The path that you need for "image =" in "lilo.conf" will depend on where you have mounted the operating system disks. The "image =" option for different operating systems should not be the same.

Settings in "lilo.conf" for everything EXCEPT "root=" should be based on how Slackware sees things at the time that you use the "lilo" command. File paths are used only when installing LILO (at the time you use the "lilo" command).

The only file name used at boot time is "root=". Figuring out what to use for "root=" may be difficult. You need to know what device Ubuntu WILL use for the Ubuntu disk when Ubuntu is booted. One way to find that out is to boot from a live Ubuntu CD and then look at the devices assigned to the flash. Likewise you need to know what device Mint WILL use for the Mint disk when Mint is booted. For example, if you know that Mint will refer to its disk as "/dev/sda1" then you would use "root=/dev/sda1" even if Slackware assigns some other name, such as "/dev/sdd1". I don't think that you can use spaces when specifying the "root=" parameter. It is safer to not use any spaces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waddles View Post
So what I did next was to set image=/media/boot/vmlinuz for both Ubuntu and Mint which are loaded on flash drives with the boot at sdx5 then ran lilo. That got me this error:
Fatal: open /media/boot/vmlinuz: No such file or directory
Which brings me to a couple of questions:
I put the above identical image= in both stanza for the flash drive OSs. Is lilo smart enough to sort the the commands in each stanza and know that the vmlinuz is different for the 2 OS drives? Is that why I got the error?
No, LILO only knows that two files are different because there is a different path in front of the file name. So, for different operating systems, the path in front of "vmlinuz" must be different. You must mount each operating system's disk at a different mount point and ALL the disks for the operating systems must be mounted at the time you use the "lilo" command to install LILO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waddles View Post
And/Or do I need to create a /etc/fstab line for each OS to mount the appropriate sdd5/sdc5 to /media?
No, the "/etc/fstab" for each operating system is only used when you actually boot that particular operating system.

You need to temporarily mount the Ubuntu and Mint disks on Slackware before you use the "lilo" command on Slackware to install LILO. Using the "/etc/fstab" for Slackware is one possible way to (permanently) mount the disks. Instead, you can use the "mount" command or mount the disks by double-clicking on the disks from the desktop. The important thing is to know that the disks are mounted, and where they are mounted (what is the file path to the files). My suggestion is to use a small shell script to mount the disks, run the "lilo" command and dismount the disks. You only need the disks mounted temporarily for the brief period of time that the "lilo" command is being used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waddles View Post
When I created the BIOS booting sequence this last time I was surprised that it did not offer both flash drives as alternate bootable devices. Just the PNY. On the previous occasion I used the cdrom, hard drive and just one flash drive. Following that the device manager, Thunar, had /media/disk/... and /media/disk-1/... pointing to the flash drives now it just shows /media/<fdname> for both and it points at sdx1 for both.
What your BIOS displays for boot devices will depend on what it detected at the time you restarted the computer. If you happen to plug in a flash disk a little too late it might not show up in the boot menu. Some BIOS software does not correctly handle multiple boot devices of the same type. For example it may only show you one of the hard disks, one of the USB disks and one of the CD-ROM disks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waddles View Post
I point this out because of the different ways this last booting of the OSs behaved on the display. I haven't checked but my reading brings me to think the initrd.img does not have to be stipulated. Is this wrong for not using them?
If you don't specify "initrd=" for a menu entry in "lilo.conf" then the "initrd" file is not used. LILO doesn't automatically figure out if you need an "initrd".

You will have to check the Ubuntu and Mint documentation to see when it is necessary to use the "initrd" file. That is only required if the kernel does not include a device driver or file-system module needed for accessing the root file-system. The Slackware huge kernel usually has the needed drivers and file-systems, and you don't usually need an "initrd". Using an "initrd" when you don't need one isn't really wrong, but it makes the operating system startup more complicated. If you use an "initrd" then you have to make sure that the "initrd" file is built correctly and up to date.

Every Linux distribution has a different philosophy about what drivers and file-systems should be built into the kernel. When most of the drivers and file-systems are modules separate from the kernel then you are more likely to need the "initrd". Some distributions offer a choice of kernels. The larger kernels usually have more devices and file-systems built into the kernel. Large or huge kernels are less likely to need an "initrd". Some distributions just have one small kernel and require you to always use the "initrd".

Last edited by Erik_FL; 03-18-2013 at 10:38 PM.
 
Old 03-19-2013, 11:29 AM   #28
waddles
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Lilo booting to flash drive

Erik, I am so glad U responded as U did. U clarified my quandary regarding "/mnt". When I had seen that in the many postings I have read (and since I had my Thunar display /media/disk(-1/xxx), my mind jumped the rail and presumed that the mounting was to fstab and as U point out it can be. So FWIW then the /mnt is just anywhere convenient and the name is irrelevant save to uniquely identify the location of vmlinuz.

I need to shutdown for a bit but will play with what U have said later today.

In the meantime, I had removed the descriptions in lilo.conf to which U were refering and substituted the following:
other = /dev/sdd5 # and sdc5
table = /dev/sdd # and sdc
label = Mint # and Ubunto
as I had read this is "chain loading" and would work.
When I ran it in test I got:
Fatal: First sector of /dev/sdc5 doesn't have a valid boot signature
and likewise for sdd5.
I fdisk /dev/sdx to each and found that for both:
scx1 is W95 FAT32 and is marked for bootable
While partition 2 is extended, 5 is linux and 6 is swap.
When I installed these 2 distros via their mechanisms, is the fact that partition 1 is marked bootable and not partition 5, going to screw up the booting via the mounting as U so aptly described?
 
Old 03-19-2013, 09:54 PM   #29
Erik_FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waddles View Post
Erik, I am so glad U responded as U did. U clarified my quandary regarding "/mnt". When I had seen that in the many postings I have read (and since I had my Thunar display /media/disk(-1/xxx), my mind jumped the rail and presumed that the mounting was to fstab and as U point out it can be. So FWIW then the /mnt is just anywhere convenient and the name is irrelevant save to uniquely identify the location of vmlinuz.

I need to shutdown for a bit but will play with what U have said later today.

In the meantime, I had removed the descriptions in lilo.conf to which U were refering and substituted the following:
other = /dev/sdd5 # and sdc5
table = /dev/sdd # and sdc
label = Mint # and Ubunto
as I had read this is "chain loading" and would work.
When I ran it in test I got:
Fatal: First sector of /dev/sdc5 doesn't have a valid boot signature
and likewise for sdd5.
I fdisk /dev/sdx to each and found that for both:
scx1 is W95 FAT32 and is marked for bootable
While partition 2 is extended, 5 is linux and 6 is swap.
When I installed these 2 distros via their mechanisms, is the fact that partition 1 is marked bootable and not partition 5, going to screw up the booting via the mounting as U so aptly described?
Chain loading requires more than just the "other =" option in "lilo.conf". Chain loading assumes that there is another boot loader on the other disk with a boot sector on the other disk. You have to install that other boot loader. For example, have a second copy of the LILO boot software with a second "lilo.conf" and a second "boot/map" file on the other disk. You use the "lilo" command twice, once for each disk that will contain the LILO boot software.

The "boot" flag for a partition is ignored by LILO. That "boot" flag is only used when you have the default software in the MBR (LILO is not installed to the MBR). The default MBR software is installed by Windows, or when you first partition an empty hard disk in Linux. The default MBR software looks for the first primary partition with the "boot" flag set, and then loads the partition's boot sector. In essence it chains to the boot loader installed in the "boot" partition. For example, you might have a primary partition with the Windows boot loader, and a different primary partition with LILO. Depending on which "boot" flag you set using "fdisk", either the Windows boot loader or the LILO boot loader would be started by the BIOS. The default MBR software can't start a boot loader located in an extended partition.

Installing a boot loader such as LILO to the MBR bypasses (replaces) that default boot software. It is less confusing because you don't have to worry about setting a "boot" flag for a partition. The disadvantage of installing a boot loader to the MBR is that you can't easily change which boot loader starts up first. Whatever you installed to the MBR will start up first.

LILO works the same way whether you install the LILO boot sector to the MBR or a primary partition's boot sector. In all cases, LILO uses the menu stored in "/boot/map" to determine what is booted and ignores the "boot" flags in the partition table.
 
Old 03-20-2013, 03:53 PM   #30
waddles
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I think I have made progress. I ran df -h and discovered for the 1st time:
/dev/sdd5 7.6G 2.2G 5.1G 30% /media/disk
/dev/sdc5 2.8G 2.1G 629M 77% /media/disk-1
Examined /boot beneath each and found vmlinuz is different
Ubuntu it is vmlinuz-3.2.0-29-generic-pae
Changed the Ubuntu stanza to:
image = /media/disk-1/boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-29-generic=pae
# initrd = /media/disk-1/boot/initrd.img # Unneccesary for kernel
root = /dev/sdc5 # "UUID=6E98-297F"
append="rootdelay=20"
label = Ubuntu
read-only
Note that the system has set these pathnames for me and that Mint is vmlinuz=2.6.38-8-generic which I did not include in the test which with only Slackware and Ubuntu got:
Syntax error at or above line 74 in file '/etc/lilo.conf' and line 74 is the image line image= line. Same error without spaces on either side of =.
When this stanza is commented out there are NO errors.
Did not see any lines for either in /etc/fstab.
Now where am I cuz I think I have done what Erik said. If not is it that sdd5 is not flagged as bootable? Or what else where did our boy go wrong?? Could it be that Ubuntu is using grub instead of lilo?

Last edited by waddles; 03-20-2013 at 04:17 PM.
 
  


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