Keeping up with Firefox

Totoro-kun · 06-28-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telengard

The whole concept of applications updating themselves. I don't recall ever seeing that before Windows (and I've been computing since about 1982).

The Unix model is that regular users (and hence applications they invoke) do not have write access to files which affect the the system globally.

The Linux model of software updating is for root to compile from source, or else for root to invoke the package manager which updates binaries on her behalf.

Do we really want to adopt the Windows way of maintaining our systems?

I don't want to criticize any Linux administrator's methods. Rather I want to understand what other administrators do, and thus learn better methods for my own purposes. As a Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron administrator, I too am faced with the Firefox update problem.

Also, I don't want to drag the thread off topic, especially since it is marked solved. It just seems to me that OP stated his desire for updating was based on security interest. Thus I do believe these questions are relevant to the topic.

Very well said.
I do agree with you. Applications that updates by themselves are indeed evil thing. Imagine elderly people for instance, my friends grandmother almost got heart attack when her Firefox 3.6.18 became Firefox 4! Poor woman, just sits there doing regular uploading of photos, and then bam! Pop up comes up, she just press ok, and then suddenly ff becomes a mess, she can't use it at all, everything is different. She came downstairs screaming. And that is just one person, one story.

I am a computer technician, and i have some regular base of clients, for which i had customized operating systems, and the practice is, i get tons of phone calls from desperate people, who had their software updated aether automatically or by accidentally pressing ok. So when I am reinstalling windows, I now disable all the auto updating "features" I can find. And only update software on next reinstall, because then, I am there in person to show people what is new and how to get along with new features and so on.

I tell you, programs updating themselves is a real nightmare. That is the main reason I like Slackware a lot. Everything here happens only when I need/want to happen. And it is really sad to see how some programs are still want to update themselves even on Linux systems. This has to stop. Really, I have not even started on how much system resources those updates-per-every-application waste!

cfdisk · 07-29-2011, 09:15 PM

Hello,

On July 11 Mozilla released FF 5.0.1 to bring increased compatibility with Mac OS X Lion. They said:

Quote:

Please note: Users on Windows and Linux do not need and will not see the update offer.

Just today I noticed that FF 5.0.1 for Linux and Windows are available.

Yet I can't find any credible information on the Internet what's all about. "Security Advisories for Firefox" and "Mozilla Foundation Security Advisories" pages offering no clue.

Does anyone know for sure what's a new Mozilla milestone we are just passing by?

Thanks in advance.

gazj · 07-30-2011, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totoro-kun

Very well said.
I do agree with you. Applications that updates by themselves are indeed evil thing. Imagine elderly people for instance, my friends grandmother almost got heart attack when her Firefox 3.6.18 became Firefox 4! Poor woman, just sits there doing regular uploading of photos, and then bam! Pop up comes up, she just press ok, and then suddenly ff becomes a mess, she can't use it at all, everything is different. She came downstairs screaming. And that is just one person, one story.

I am a computer technician, and i have some regular base of clients, for which i had customized operating systems, and the practice is, i get tons of phone calls from desperate people, who had their software updated aether automatically or by accidentally pressing ok. So when I am reinstalling windows, I now disable all the auto updating "features" I can find. And only update software on next reinstall, because then, I am there in person to show people what is new and how to get along with new features and so on.

I tell you, programs updating themselves is a real nightmare. That is the main reason I like Slackware a lot. Everything here happens only when I need/want to happen. And it is really sad to see how some programs are still want to update themselves even on Linux systems. This has to stop. Really, I have not even started on how much system resources those updates-per-every-application waste!

It drives me crazy when I use a windows machine, dozens of apps saying there is a newer version available, I will look for updates when I am ready thank you, not when I am trying to get my work done. Grrr. Linux should never ever go this way.

Arcane · 07-30-2011, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zordrak

Take it up with Mozilla. Any user on any system allowed to use the update functionality must by implication have write access to the firefox install directory.

Not true. Firefox creates user-specific profile directories and there store settings & update is made not in install directory itself. Try it out yourself - update from one Windows account then switch to other and other one won't be updated at first launch.

qweasd · 07-30-2011, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Just today I noticed that FF 5.0.1 for Linux and Windows are available.
Yet I can't find any credible information on the Internet what's all about. "Security Advisories for Firefox" and "Mozilla Foundation Security Advisories" pages offering no clue.
Does anyone know for sure what's a new Mozilla milestone we are just passing by?

To find this page, I had to guess its URL.

Quote:

Worked around an issue in Mac OS X 10.7 that could cause Firefox to crash
Worked around an issue caused by Apple's "Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 5" where the Java plugin would not be loaded

cfdisk · 07-30-2011, 01:50 PM

@qweasd

I was wondering that Mozilla didn't say why Linux and Windows users need FF 5.0.1

You just proved that I am right, didn't you?

qweasd · 07-30-2011, 04:46 PM

I am not sure what you are asking, cfdisk. But it seems that this update was intended for Mac OS users only. My local Linux firefox would not self-update to 5.0.1, for example, and the release notes are mysteriously burried. I also use icecat, and I noticed that Giuseppe is ignoring 5.0.1 as well.

Anyhow, it seems that Slackware (along with other non-OS-X) users can safely skip this update.

cfdisk · 07-30-2011, 06:15 PM

Thanks, qweasd.
I was thinking just like you think

Quote:

it seems that Slackware (along with other non-OS-X) users can safely skip this update.

until yesterday when I got Slackware Security Advisories emails about libpng, dhcpcd, and samba.

http://www.slackware.com/security/li...ecurity&y=2011

Guess what? While running upgrade I noticed that firefox 5.0.1 appeared on the list. Naturally, not having any previous news about FF 5.0.1 for Linux and even Windows I got curious about that particular FF release but I am still unable to pull any info.

Keep in mind neither http://www.slackware.com/security/li...ecurity&y=2011 nor http://www.us-cert.gov/current/index.atom got any words about FF 5.0.1 for Linux, not to mention Mozilla pages which you already found.

Do you follow me, don't you?

bnguyen · 07-30-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfdisk

Guess what? While running upgrade I noticed that firefox 5.0.1 appeared on the list. Naturally, not having any previous news about FF 5.0.1 for Linux and even Windows I got curious about that particular FF release but I am still unable to pull any info.

From ChangeLog:
"I guess this is only a fix for Mac OS X, but it's still 0.0.1 better. ;-)"

So this update has no effect on Linux, except version bump.

Eternal_Newbie · 07-31-2011, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcane

Not true. Firefox creates user-specific profile directories and there store settings & update is made not in install directory itself. Try it out yourself - update from one Windows account then switch to other and other one won't be updated at first launch.

You are wrong. Fortunately, Firefox doesn't keep the program binary in the profile directory, only addons and themes. Those are what are being updated when you switch accounts - under any OS.

Since you are talking of Windows, you might be thinking of Chrome as that is how it misbehaves and why I won't install it under Windows. But that is a different subject.