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Old 10-31-2012, 10:38 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by gnashley View Post
hotplug, HAL and udev are not part of the kernel and never were. So, mouthing off about Linus and what he should do will get you nowhere. It always amazes me that the most ignorant people are the first and most eager to make their threatening suggestions...

If you really want to be helpful, first know what you are talking about, then work your way towards contributing some code which will accomplish what you think should be done. But, remember that the open source community has not been just stumbling along, waiting for *you* to come along with your bright ideas.
Discussion about topics does not need to invite negative comments as such towards myself or anyone else, please reconsider your words when talking to others about things and be polite. Calling anyone ignorant and pointing fingers isn't getting "you" anywhere either, so remember your words and choose them carefully.

I meant to say udev and the original implementations of hal, hotplug, and devfs were supported by the kernel for hardware device management, not exactly part of the kernel.

Ah! Yes, GazL I meant devfs. I forgot devfs had been phased out and replaced with udev's implementation of devtmpfs.

I wonder if Linus has looked into the non-systemd udev fork yet?
Old 11-01-2012, 01:23 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
Got Linus's email?
It s displayed in posts which are a response to him in the lkml mailing list.
Old 11-15-2012, 12:01 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by gnashley View Post
... So, mouthing off about linus and what he should do will get you nowhere.
Absolutely agree.
Linus may call Kay a "two-faced lying weasel", but submitted a patch that essentially implements Kay's suggestion. Those high caliber developers know each other for many years and will settle issues without our advices.
Dog barks, caravan is moving.

Originally Posted by gnashley View Post
... It always amazes me that the most ignorant people are the first and most eager to make their threatening suggestions...
... who in most cases never written a single line of code themselves but always first to discuss "proper design paradigms", "unix phylosophy" and similar bs.
Old 11-16-2012, 06:11 PM   #19
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Interesting development. Hope this gets off the ground:
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:00 PM   #20
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GazL, you beat me to it--I was going to start another thread, but you dug up this one.

Anyway, I wonder if Pat and the gang (along with the rest of us?) should throw our hat behind the Gentoo effort and actually do real support/coding behind it? The more distros get behind it, the better it should work, and maybe some of the nagging problems with udev can even be fixed!
Old 11-17-2012, 03:01 AM   #21
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I hope the fork does go forward and gets adopted by others besides gentoo. However, Kay Sievers seems to have commit privileges which may not be good -since he's the one turned udev over to Lennart Poettering. Also, the new fork seems to follow the upstream changes pretty closely -I wonder what they will do when changes come in which cause new breakages. I'm quite sure that the upstream will, at some point, seriously break compatibility with older versions -which is one of the main problems which has plagued udev all along.

For me, Kay Sievers has joined the shortlist of our greatest villains, behind Ulrich Drepper, Jörg Schilling and Greg Kroah-Hartmann (who created udev and it's traditional lack of both foresight and hindsight). Lennart Poettering is new to the list but is rising fast in the ranks...
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:09 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by GazL View Post
Interesting development. Hope this gets off the ground:
they should just bring back devfs
Old 11-17-2012, 08:36 AM   #23
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Gentoo developers are also unhappy with udev:

Sorry, Martinus2u posted the link first

Last edited by mlpa; 11-17-2012 at 08:37 AM. Reason: Martinus2u post the link first
Old 11-17-2012, 09:59 AM   #24
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Something _is_ going to happen, that we can be certain of, but what? If things continue there will be all sorts of trouble in in big parts of the free software community not related to Linux, but probably also in more specialized cases of Linux far from desktop use.

Somehow, i do not know why yet, i have some ugly feel that this systemd mess can be related to some draconian implementation of secure boot, but that is just some crazy feeling i have.
Old 11-17-2012, 01:41 PM   #25
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It seems, that forcing stuff on users is the new FreeDesktop development culture. They forget, that users can leave the GNOME/Pulseaudio/Systemd ecosystem and go for commercial vendors. And without users the remaining hardware vendors will drop support. At the end of the day, the developers sit on their "works perfect for me" implementation, which runs only on a virtual machine. Go figure!
Old 12-17-2012, 01:07 PM   #26
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Gentoo Announces Eudev Project -- Its Udev Fork

Old 12-17-2012, 02:01 PM   #27
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udev seems to work reasonably well for me. Aside from that restart I do after boot and logging in to get it back down to one entry in the ps tree. And that, I have less common hardware thing. As I configure this device manually with less of a clue than the developer. Is it me or was MAKEDEV and mknod simpler to understand back in the day? At least it's being looked at and possible solutions are being explored.
Old 12-17-2012, 03:12 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Pixxt View Post
Great news! I was a little bit sceptical how eudev turns out, as many forks struggle to stay alive after a while, but it looks like it's doing fine and developers are heading the right direction. Definitely yay!

Udev in Slackware works fine for me now, although it's mainly because of Pat careful choice of udev release. If anything goes wrong with udev in future, we'll see. I would be surprised if anyone revived HAL and other "deprecated" (but still working) tools, nevertheless eudev seems to be good choice for near future.
Old 12-17-2012, 03:16 PM   #29
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Interesting - I subscribed to the mailing list just to watch and follow along.
Old 12-17-2012, 11:11 PM   #30
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Currently I'm testing a rollback of Slackware 14.0 to udev 165 from 13.37. This has the advantage, that /run can go away too.


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