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Old 11-02-2002, 11:16 AM   #1
NSKL
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Is anyone bothered by many apps?


Is anyone using slackware, or Linux in general, botherd by the fact that installation installs a big number of apps, that are perhaps never used.
For example i have GNOME, KDE programs although i never use GNOME, or KDE but i need to install the GNOME and KDE packages so all their libraries install, because if i dont i will have to go hunting for missing libraries when trying to compile some programs i downloaded that uses KDE/GNOME libraries.

I i'm seriously considering building a LFS system and switching completely to it, but i'm always discouraged by the fact that i will have to hunt for hundreads of libraries and programs in order to get a all my hardware and programs i use to work. For example, just evolution needs a load of libraries to run, and in tht scenario it just looks much, much better to install a "pre-packaged" distro such as slack, and in addition slack is the least bloated distro, i can immagine in what confusion people who have full install of SuSE (over 2000 programs!) must be.

I dont really have a question, I'm just curious on other people's thought regarding this issue, and is it possible just deleting all programs i dont use, but keeping the libraries, or is it better to leave it how it is, and forget about all the programs sitting around the system, after all they might be useful one day...

Opinions? Flames?

-NSKL
 
Old 11-02-2002, 11:31 AM   #2
Mara
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LFS won't make you free from KDE or GNOME. For example, Nautilus requires full GNOME install, in fact. The truth is that really many programs require one of them or both...
 
Old 11-02-2002, 03:42 PM   #3
nautilus_1987
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I can see you have switched to Slack8.1
NSKL I had such opinion when my Linux part was only 3GB, not it is 8GBso it doesn't bothers me about all apps...

In past it was a problem.
When I was installing Slack I selected 'menu' method and didn't installed GNOME packages absolutely ( as I can remember I even didn't select it when I was prompted what WM's I want to use )...
When I began rapidly download tools from NET I realised that 70% of programs need GNOME libraries - it was a trouble for me. About 15 days ago my system crashed. I was reinstalling Slack and offcourse selected all needed GNOME packages
I am reapiting once again - it became not a big trouble now as I have a lot space free
that's my opinion
 
Old 11-02-2002, 09:34 PM   #4
Excalibur
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The apps and the general approach to the system is what distinquishes one distro to another. All distros are really based on software developed by others. So how much free stuff can you afford to put in? That is what I like about Slack, doesn't try to keep up with the rest of the crowd. Slack has kept the focus and remained consistent between the versions while providing a stable base system to operate from.

I have at least four basic systems, all based on Slack, but all are designed different. I have that flexibility because of Slack. The recent version 8.1 of Slack demonstrates that it is not the distro that is really becoming bloated, but the desktops and the apps that go in it. I do not think Slack 8.1 really has anything that wasn't there in 8.0. But it doesn't all fit on a single CD anymore. Why? The X desktop environment has really grown. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they were all put in a different directory tree on a 2nd CD just for window managers.

In reference to the shared library issue, sure I have the same problem. But in a way it is also nice problem. I could elliminate the problem. But what limitations would I be imposing on myself? I enjoy the ability to use the app that I like, regardless of the window manager I use. If I am running KDE and want to use galeon, then I can. If I am running GNome and want to use KMail or KNode then I can. Some other distros have the added problem of using special builds for their libraries. This may force a system to have two copies of the same basic library installed, one for the system and the other for regular apps. I have been able to work around by just creating a link and forcing the other library to work. In many ways it is getting as bad as MicroSoft. Just another plus here for the base libs provided with Slack.

Recently, I have been forced to work with SuSE and I have not been very satisfied with it. Sure, I can get it to work and do what I need (at least so far), but the first time user? Installation is easy enough, even for the first time user, but that is just the first stage. I found the installation more difficult than Slack. Just because it is a GUI and uses a mouse to point and click doesn't mean it is easy. It took me four installs to get the system where I wanted it.

I considered LFS as well. But when I considered all the hows and whys, the likes and dislikes that I had seen in the several distros I had worked with, I concluded I would only reinvent Slack! However, even with Slack there are a lots of things I know I don't need or use, but they are basic type of tools and it is good to know the tools are there if a need does arise.

If disk space is a problem then I am sure that some choices will need to be made. A 500 MByte hard disk will require a lot of decisions! A base install uses only a small fraction of the disk space for a reasonably current system. It hardly doesn't seem to be worth the effort to attempt to reduce it. I just recently purchased a new notebook with a 30 GByte hard disk. I installed four operating systems and still have plenty of hard disk space available for each. Of course 15 years ago I was excited about getting a 20 MByte hard disk and 4 MByte RAM.

This has probably been a little on and off the subject but thought it would be at least worth reading.
 
Old 11-03-2002, 03:41 AM   #5
NSKL
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It was worth reading, it helped me get my ideas clear! As you said to start LFS we would only reinvent Slack (after a couple of years of work of course!) Well thanks for giving your opinion, it really helped!
-NSKL
 
Old 11-03-2002, 04:43 AM   #6
moses
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I would be much more worried if there were a large number of apps that
used a lot of disk space each. As it is, there are only really three that
I can name off the top of my head, and those are Gnome, KDE, and
XFree86. Almost everything else is pretty small, and most of what is
left is pretty cool to have around. Sure, there are quite a few apps that
you probably don't need or even know are on your system, but with Slack,
you have a chance to be pretty involved with what goes on your system
when you install, I like that. I also like having a bunch of small apps that
do just what they need to and not much more. I don't like having large
(bloated) apps that try to do many things and accomplish only some of
them, and rather poorly at that.
 
Old 11-04-2002, 12:55 PM   #7
moorcito
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I had been feeling the same way as you NSKL, especially in the area of the GNOME/KDE issue. Since I use Window Maker, I didn't really want all of the Gnome/Kde junkt that I wasn't ever going to use, plus those WM use up a lot of my system resources, unlike Window Maker.

Anyway, after accdentially hoseing my past setup, I decided to do a base install with gcc, and some other developing stuff, and make my own "LFS". They only really hard part was the XFree86 4.2.0 compile, it took about 4 tries to get it right, but after that everything else was pretty easy.

In retrospect, even downloading all of the libraries, and apps wasn't that bad. Plus, I now have Slack set up the way that I want, and all of the programs were compiled using my hardware setup instead of someone elses. So, there are definitaly more pros to compiling your own software, than there are cons.
 
Old 11-06-2002, 09:40 AM   #8
Mara
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The good thing is that when you're compiling an app you can choose what you want (for example in KDE you can decide what programs to compile).
 
  


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