LinuxQuestions.org

LinuxQuestions.org (/questions/)
-   Slackware (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/)
-   -   Improving Slackware (based) distros all to one new Slackware based distro (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/improving-slackware-based-distros-all-to-one-new-slackware-based-distro-620009/)

Secu-Slack 02-09-2008 09:17 PM

Improving Slackware to a new Slackware based distro.
 
Dear Slackware and other Linux/GNU veterans,

I'm collecting information for a new Linux project and I need your help with this.

As a starter, I'm placing a shutdown/reboot (rc.6) script here and I would like to hear from you what you're missing / added / changed in this script in your own distro and / or what you like to see in this script.

Thank you for your help.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update 11-feb-08:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Code: Filled with new idea's.
- People can cut and paste something useful from here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Code:

#! /bin/sh
#
# rc.6                This file is executed by init when it goes into runlevel
#                0 (halt) or runlevel 6 (reboot). It kills all processes,
#                unmounts file systems and then either halts or reboots.
#
# Version:        0.1
#



echo -e '\E[36m'"\033[1mRunning shutdown script $0:\033[0m"

# Load global settings:
. /etc/rc.d/secu-slack.config &

# Set the path:
PATH=/sbin:/etc:/bin:/usr/bin &

# Set linefeed mode to avoid staircase effect:
stty onlcr

# Run SystemV init scripts for this runlevel:
if [ "$SYSINIT" = "1" ]; then
 . /etc/rc.d/rc.sysvinit
fi

# Find out what the user wants:
case "$0" in
        *0)
                command="halt"
                ;;
        *6)
                command="reboot"
                ;;
        *)
                echo -e '\E[31m'"\033[1m$0: call me as \"rc.0\" or \"rc.6\" please!\033[0m"
                exit 1
                ;;
esac


## Saving / updating data part:

# Save the system time to the hardware clock and check for a broken motherboard
# RTC clock (where ioports for rtc are unknown) to prevent hwclock causing a hang:
 if ! grep -q -w rtc /proc/ioports ; then
  CLOCK_OPT="--directisa"
 fi
  if grep -q "^UTC" /etc/hardwareclock 2> /dev/null ; then
  echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mSaving system time to the hardware clock (UTC).\033[0m"
  hwclock $CLOCK_OPT --utc --systohc &
  else
  echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mSaving system time to the hardware clock (localtime).\033[0m"
  hwclock $CLOCK_OPT --localtime --systohc &
  fi

# Save the sound settings:
if [ -x /usr/sbin/alsactl ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mSaving sound settings.\033[0m"
 /usr/sbin/alsactl store &
fi

# Update the shared library links:
if [ -x /sbin/ldconfig ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mUpdating shared library links.\033[0m"
 /sbin/ldconfig &
fi

# Update the X font indexes:
if [ -x /usr/bin/fc-cache ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mUpdating X font indexes:  /usr/bin/fc-cache.\033[0m"
 /usr/bin/fc-cache  2>&1 1>/dev/null &
fi


## Stopping services part:

# Run local shutdown scripts:
if [ "$RCLOCALSHUT" = "1" ]; then
 . /etc/rc.d/rc.local_shutdown
fi

# Stop the Apache2 (httpd) web server:
if [ "$APACHE" = "1" ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mStopping the Apache web server.\033[0m"
 . /etc/rc.d/rc.httpd stop &
fi

# Stop the MySQL database:
if [ "$MYSQL" = "1" ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mStopping the MySQL database.\033[0m"
 . /etc/rc.d/rc.mysqld stop &
fi

# Stop the Samba server:
if [ "$SAMBA" = "1" ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mStopping the Samba server.\033[0m"
 . /etc/rc.d/rc.samba stop &
fi

# Stop the NFS server:
if [ "$NFS" = "1" ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mStopping the NFS server.\033[0m"
 . /etc/rc.d/rc.nfsd stop &
fi

# Stop the SSH server:
if [ "$SSH" = "1" ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mStopping the SSH server.\033[0m"
 . /etc/rc.d/rc.sshd stop &
fi

# Stop the SASL authentication daemon:
if [ "$SASL" = "1" ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mStopping the SASL auth. deamon.\033[0m"
 . /etc/rc.d/rc.saslauthd stop &
fi

# Stop the OpenLDAP services:
if [ "$OPENLDAP" = "1" ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mStopping the OpenLDAP services.\033[0m"
 . /etc/rc.d/rc.openldap stop &
fi

# Stop the message D-Bus:
if [ "$DBUS" = "1" ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mStopping the message D-bus.\033[0m"
 . /etc/rc.d/rc.messagebus stop &
fi


## Unmount, stop processes and sync part:

# Unmount any NFS, SMB, or CIFS filesystems:
echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mUnmounting any remote NFS, SMB and CIFS filesystems:\033[0m"
umount -vart nfs,smbfs,cifs
 
# Try to stop pppd:
PS="$(ps ax)"
if echo "$PS" | /bin/grep -q -w pppd ; then
 if [ -x /usr/sbin/ppp-off ]; then
  ppp-off &
 fi
fi

# Bring down the networking system, but first make sure that this
# isn't a diskless client with the / partition mounted via NFS:
if ! /bin/mount | /bin/grep -q 'on / type nfs' ; then
 if [ "$RCINET1" = "1" ]; then
  echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mStopping the networking system.\033[0m"
  . /etc/rc.d/rc.inet1 stop &
 fi
fi

# In case dhcpcd might have been manually started on the command line,
# look for the .pid file, and stop dhcpcd if it's found:
if /bin/ls /etc/dhcpc/*.pid 1> /dev/null 2> /dev/null ; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mStopping the DHCP client deamon.\033[0m"
 dhcpcd -k 1> /dev/null 2> /dev/null &
fi

# Stop the PCMCIA devices:
if [ "$PCMCIA" = "1" ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mStopping the PCMCIA devices.\033[0m"
 . /etc/rc.d/rc.pcmcia stop &
fi

# Turn off process accounting:
if [ "$PACCT" = "1" ]; then
 if [ -x /sbin/accton -ar /var/log/pacct ]; then
  echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mTurning off process accounting.\033[0m"
  accton &
 fi
fi

# Kill all processes.
# INIT is supposed to handle this entirely now, but this didn't always
# work correctly without this second pass at killing off the processes.
# Since INIT already notified the user that processes were being killed,
# we'll avoid echoing this info this time around:
if [ ! "$1" = "fast" ]; then # shutdown did not already kill all processes.
 killall5 -15
 sleep 2
 killall5 -9
fi

# Try to turn off quota:
if [ "$QUOTA" = "1" ]; then
 if /bin/grep -q quota /etc/fstab ; then
  if [ -x /sbin/quotaoff ]; then
  echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mTurning off filesystem quotas.\033[0m"
  quotaoff -a &
  fi
 fi
fi

# Carry a random seed between reboots:
echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mSaving random seed from /dev/urandom in /etc/random-seed.\033[0m"
# Use the pool size from /proc, or 512 bytes:
if [ -r /proc/sys/kernel/random/poolsize ]; then
 dd if=/dev/urandom of=/etc/random-seed count=1 bs=$(cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/poolsize) 2> /dev/null &
  else
  dd if=/dev/urandom of=/etc/random-seed count=1 bs=512 2> /dev/null &
  fi
  chmod 600 /etc/random-seed &

# Before unmounting file systems write a reboot or halt record to wtmp:
$command -w &

# Clear /var/lock/subsys:
if [ -d /var/lock/subsys ]; then
 rm -f /var/lock/subsys/* &
fi

# Clean /tmp of old and stale files:
echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mCleaning temporary files in /tmp.\033[0m"
find /tmp -type f -mtime +5 -exec rm -f {} \; &
find /var/tmp -type f -mtime +30 -exec rm -f {} \; &

# Turn off swap:
echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mTurning off swap.\033[0m"
swapoff -a &

# Umount any LVM volumes:
if [ "$LVM" = "1" ]; then
 if /bin/mount | /bin/grep -q '^/dev/mapper/' ; then
  echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mUnmounting LVM volumes:\033[0m"
  umount -v $(/bin/mount | /bin/grep '^/dev/mapper/' | /bin/cut -d ' ' -f 3 | /bin/tac)
 fi
fi

echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mUnmounting local filesystems:\033[0m"
umount -vart nonfs,noproc,nosysfs

# Close any volumes opened by cryptsetup:
if [ "$CRYPT" = "1" ]; then
 if [ -f /etc/crypttab -a -x /sbin/cryptsetup.static ]; then
  cat /etc/crypttab | grep -v "^#" | grep -v "^$" | while read line; do
  # NOTE: we only support LUKS formatted volumes (except for swap)!
  LUKS=$(echo $line | tr '\t' ' ' | tr -s ' ' | cut -f1 -d' ')
  DEV=$(echo $line | tr '\t' ' ' | tr -s ' ' | cut -f2 -d' ')
  OPTS=$(echo $line | tr '\t' ' ' | tr -s ' ' | cut -f4 -d' ')
  if /sbin/cryptsetup.static isLuks $DEV 2>/dev/null ; then
  echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mLocking LUKS crypt volume '${LUKS}':\033[0m"
  cryptsetup.static luksClose ${LUKS} &
  elif echo $OPTS | grep -wq swap ; then
    # If any of the volumes was used as encrypted swap,
    # then run mkswap on the underlying device -
    # in case other Linux installations on this computer should use it:
    echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mErasing encrypted swap '${LUKS}' and restoring normal swap on ${DEV}:\033[0m"
    cryptsetup.static remove ${LUKS} &
    mkswap $DEV &
  fi
  done
 fi
fi

# Deactivate LVM volume groups:
if [ "$LVM" = "1" ]; then
 if [ -r /etc/lvmtab -od /etc/lvm/backup ]; then
  echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mDeactivating LVM volume groups.\033[0m"
  vgchange -an --ignorelockingfailure &
 fi
fi

# Remount read only anything that's left mounted:
echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mRemounting remaining filesystems as read-only:\033[0m"
mount | awk '/dev/ { print $3 }' | while read line; do
mount -vno ro,remount $line
done

# Turn off raid devices:
if [ -x /sbin/raidstop -a -f /etc/raidtab -a /proc/mdstat ]; then
 # We can not use raidstop -a here because this will only stop
 # devices listed in the default config file which is not always
 # the case. So we look only for the active raid devices:
 if [ -f /proc/mdstat ] ; then
  mddevs=$(grep ^md /proc/mdstat | awk '{ print $1 }')
  root=$(mount | grep "md.* \/ " | awk '{ print $1 }' | sed -e 's/\/dev\///')
  for mddev in $mddevs; do
  if [ $mddev != $root ]; then
    echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mTurning off RAID for $mddev.\033[0m"
    raidstop /dev/$mddev
  fi
    done
    unset mddev mddevs
 fi
fi

# This is to ensure all processes have completed:
sync
wait
sleep 1

if [ "$UPS" = "1" ]; then
 echo -e '\E[32m'"\033[1mChecking UPS.\033[0m"
 # See if this is a powerfail situation:
 if /bin/egrep -q "FAIL|SCRAM" /etc/upsstatus 2> /dev/null ; then
  # Signal UPS to shut off the inverter:
  genpowerd -k
  if [ ! $? = 0 ]; then
    echo
 echo -e '\E[31m'"\033[1mThere was an error signaling the UPS.\033[0m"
 echo -e '\E[31m'"\033[1mPerhaps you need to edit /etc/genpowerd.conf to configure\033[0m"
 echo -e '\E[31m'"\033[1mthe serial line and UPS type.\033[0m"
    # Wasting 30 seconds of precious power:
    sleep 30
  fi
 fi
fi

# Now halt (poweroff with APM or ACPI enabled kernels) or reboot:
if [ "$command" = "reboot" ]; then
 echo -e '\E[31m'"\033[1mRebooting.\033[0m"
 reboot
 else
 echo -e '\E[31m'"\033[1mPoweroff.\033[0m"
 poweroff
fi


erklaerbaer 02-10-2008 10:06 AM

quite frankly, you are wasting your time. this kind of stuff has been done a thousand times before. naturally you are free to do whatever you fancy, but i;d propose that you divert your efforts to something more worthwile and submitting it upstream.

archtoad6 02-10-2008 11:02 AM

Welcome to LQ. :)

Wouldn't a pastebin is a much more appropriate place to post such a long script; & if you must post it here, please at least use "Code:" blocks.

hitest 02-10-2008 11:21 AM

Welcome to the LQ Forums:-) Good luck with your project:-)

vdemuth 02-10-2008 01:46 PM

# clean tmp of old and stale files
echo "Cleaning temporary files"
find /tmp -type f -mtime +5 -exec rm -f {} \;
find /var/tmp -type f -mtime +30 -exec rm -f {} \;



The above included in the shutdown script tends to keep your system cleaner

Good luck with your idea

Secu-Slack 02-10-2008 06:39 PM

Thank you for your help. I've placed it into the script where I think it should belong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdemuth (Post 3052615)
# clean tmp of old and stale files
echo "Cleaning temporary files"
find /tmp -type f -mtime +5 -exec rm -f {} \;
find /var/tmp -type f -mtime +30 -exec rm -f {} \;



The above included in the shutdown script tends to keep your system cleaner

Good luck with your idea


Secu-Slack 02-10-2008 06:51 PM

I would like to collect everything here.. at one place. Not some good script lines scattered over the internet and spitted out lines by distro maintainers they don't want. Put the ideas together and do something with it. Remove the old. improve the new. quoted now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by erklaerbaer (Post 3052435)
quite frankly, you are wasting your time. this kind of stuff has been done a thousand times before. naturally you are free to do whatever you fancy, but i;d propose that you divert your efforts to something more worthwile and submitting it upstream.


Secu-Slack 02-10-2008 07:02 PM

Thank you.. I think I need it:

Some will try to flame me. But I will not burn...

Luckily there are always some people that do understand and they will reach out a hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitest (Post 3052484)
Welcome to the LQ Forums:-) Good luck with your project:-)


SqdnGuns 11-11-2008 06:51 PM

Project died?

Move thread to graveyard?

khronosschoty 11-11-2008 07:32 PM

For some reason the whole thing from the first post, (this is my first time reading it), seems so violent. Almost like he is, (and I believe), unintentionally,(or I may be wrong), inviting a flame war.

rworkman 11-11-2008 09:20 PM

Another attempt to ride on the coattails of Slackware - that's all.
If most of these "forks" were so damn good, they wouldn't have to throw around the "based on Slackware" stuff.

I'll leave open the possibility that there's a rare exception to this, but as I see it, the "fork" distributions aren't truly even forks. They "re-branch" with every stable Slackware release, and one even issues point releases at various spots based on the -current development tree. Essentially, they add/remove/modify a few things, rebrand it, and pull mindshare/marketshare/users/whatever from Slackware. A parasite that is too effective kills its host, and then they both die.

MS3FGX 11-11-2008 10:02 PM

Quote:

Some will try to flame me. But I will not burn...
It is a shame this project never got off the ground, that could have been the motto! Could put it on shirts and mugs.

mRgOBLIN 11-11-2008 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secu-Slack (Post 3052913)
Some will try to flame me. But I will not burn...

Asbestos undies FTW!
(Govt Health Warning! Not recommended for panty sniffers)

sahko 11-12-2008 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rworkman (Post 3338964)
I'll leave open the possibility that there's a rare exception to this, but as I see it, the "fork" distributions aren't truly even forks. They "re-branch" with every stable Slackware release, and one even issues point releases at various spots based on the -current development tree. Essentially, they add/remove/modify a few things, rebrand it, and pull mindshare/marketshare/users/whatever from Slackware. A parasite that is too effective kills its host, and then they both die.

Thats the reason these parasitic (i agree 100% with the term) distributions are not successful. Neither of them. And neither of them ever will. They could just be addons to Slackware like gware and all other gnome providers for slackware and help upstream. Instead they take advantage of everything thats been committed upstream, code, packages, bugfixes, everything and give absolutely nothing back.
Most of them, as far as i have seen, just use other people's scripts (slacky.eu etc) to build the additional packages. I call that childish. Sure Pat V. says to have fun while doing it, learn, experiment. But is there really a point in releasing all those distros to public? There are around 20 Slackware clones that try to deal the same "gap". Package management (most of them using slapt-get) and having xfce instead of kde as their main desktop environment. When only 1 would suffice.
Oh well...

H_TeXMeX_H 11-12-2008 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rworkman (Post 3338964)
Another attempt to ride on the coattails of Slackware - that's all.
If most of these "forks" were so damn good, they wouldn't have to throw around the "based on Slackware" stuff.

I'll leave open the possibility that there's a rare exception to this, but as I see it, the "fork" distributions aren't truly even forks. They "re-branch" with every stable Slackware release, and one even issues point releases at various spots based on the -current development tree. Essentially, they add/remove/modify a few things, rebrand it, and pull mindshare/marketshare/users/whatever from Slackware. A parasite that is too effective kills its host, and then they both die.

Under the GPL there is no such notion as parasite. The code is there free for all to use, the only restriction is to release it free as well.

In "worst case scenario" (for the entity of Slackware), say someone forked Slackware and the fork was so good that everyone switched away from Slackware. That would simply mean that Slackware is obsolete, and the fork is better. What you are assuming is that the fork = parasite and somehow it will die because of this. Nonsense I say. So far no fork has ever gained much popularity, and if it has then it's because it offers something Slackware does not, in many cases it is a port such as slamd64, slackintosh, etc. The notion of parasite is more in line with M$ / EULA / software patents mentality. You obviously do not have the right to fork Window$ ...

khronosschoty 11-12-2008 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H

The notion of parasite is more in line with M$ / EULA / software patents mentality. You obviously do not have the right to fork Window$ ...

I am not saying I agree with the posters whose posts you are referring to, because I thought they sounded to extreme, however I am also not saying I am agreeing with you because your post also seems extreme. In a certain, (non extreme), ----> light <----- I can agree with both, (you and the other posters in question).

Now what I think the poster, whose posts, you are referring to meant was that they contribute little and, while they can because they have the right to, they do more harm then good. To be more clear, the impression that I got was that since they actually do very little and are for the most part 99% dependent on Slackware that a best case scenario for those types of distros are very bad for both them and Slackware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahko
They could just be addons to Slackware like gware and all other gnome providers for slackware and help upstream. Instead they take advantage of everything thats been committed upstream, code, packages, bugfixes, everything and give absolutely nothing back.

So what I am hearing is that, the claim is those other "so called forks", (that is how I think they are substantiating their claim), can not survive with out Slackware because they are not true forks and, in fact, perhaps (or maybe in truth in their case) are not capable of maintaining a real fork.

O well, lol, my post is going no ware. Ignore my ramblings, that is all this is. I my self do not know what I am talking about.

Really I was going off but I lost my thoughts. I do not think its something to worry about to say the least.

I agree with this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H

In "worst case scenario" (for the entity of Slackware), say someone forked Slackware and the fork was so good that everyone switched away from Slackware. That would simply mean that Slackware is obsolete, and the fork is better.


-----> Yet I do not see that happening any time soon. Especial if the "so called forks" are not them selves capable of being real forks and are, in fact, not a real fork, what ever all that means.


Other thoughts: I must be real bored to have wrote all this none-sense ;p

no.guru 11-12-2008 06:46 AM

*cough* SLS *cough*

brianL 11-12-2008 07:43 AM

I don't think any of these forks pose a threat to "real" Slackware. Has Debian suffered to any extent since the birth of Ubuntu?

keefaz 11-12-2008 07:51 AM

It's like improve pizza recipe, you can always add more stuff in a pizza, but be carefull or you will end with a non-well shaped, too thin crust :)

H_TeXMeX_H 11-12-2008 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianL (Post 3339426)
I don't think any of these forks pose a threat to "real" Slackware. Has Debian suffered to any extent since the birth of Ubuntu?

I agree, and that is a good question. One possibly good place to look is distrowatch:
http://distrowatch.com/index.php?dataspan=52

It shows hits per day and fluctuations in this.

XavierP 11-12-2008 09:22 AM

I can see the difference between a "parasite" and a "fork": a fork will take the original distro and do something different with it - look at the Red Hat/Mandriva/Novell distros, there are many similarities and many differences between them. you could even look to Ubuntu and Debian and see why it would not be feasible to try to feed Ubuntu type changes into the main Debian tree (mainly because you'd get a situation where the forks became pitchforks!).

A parasite is purely one that cannot live on it's own - if, tomorrow, Debian shut up shop, Ubuntu would be able to continue along. With the example that Robby made (post #11) you have a distro that cannot survive without Slackware - it doesn't do anything new apart from add in a package manager that may or may not break your system and it only updates whenever Slackware does. They probably find all the updated programs and change "slackware" to their own name whenever it is in the programs and add there own exetension. If Pat, Robby, Eric and the rest all stopped providing updates and programs the parasite would die.

I think, personally, that there is enough choice out there that the forks can stop - unless you are doing something very different and can show that it can't be fed back into the real project, there's really not much point to doing a whole distro. In the case of the OP, why not just make your shutdown script public, explain what it does and let people decide for themselves whether to use it?

H_TeXMeX_H 11-12-2008 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XavierP (Post 3339529)
A parasite is purely one that cannot live on it's own - if, tomorrow, Debian shut up shop, Ubuntu would be able to continue along. With the example that Robby made (post #11) you have a distro that cannot survive without Slackware - it doesn't do anything new apart from add in a package manager that may or may not break your system and it only updates whenever Slackware does. They probably find all the updated programs and change "slackware" to their own name whenever it is in the programs and add there own exetension. If Pat, Robby, Eric and the rest all stopped providing updates and programs the parasite would die.

I think, personally, that there is enough choice out there that the forks can stop - unless you are doing something very different and can show that it can't be fed back into the real project, there's really not much point to doing a whole distro. In the case of the OP, why not just make your shutdown script public, explain what it does and let people decide for themselves whether to use it?

Well, I agree with all that, and I think whatever "parasite" there might be will die off quickly before it can do any damage. No-one will pay any attention to the new "distro" and it will simply disappear like the hundreds of other distros that have started and disappeared because of low quality and lack of interest. What bothers me is not this sense of the word "paraisite". What bothers me is when this is used to characterize almost any fork of Slackware, then my (rather caustic) argument above applies.

jong357 11-12-2008 09:53 AM

Not sure why such an old thread was resurrected...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SqdnGuns
Project died?

Move thread to graveyard?

It was in the graveyard until he posted....

If anyone cranks out a distro of their own, regardless if it's a clone or not, they "give back". I report bugs upstream to their respective project developers all the time but yet I "ride the coattails" of DIY, Slackware, LFS and even Fedora.

I've referenced GSB SVN on quite a few occasions for my Slackware Gnome 2.24.0 build. Reality check. This is how it works folks. 10:1, GSB has done the same. I've figured things out on my DIY build that I've later seen replicated verbatum in LFS.... What the real problem is, is when you have 2 very similar projects going on, there is ALOT of duplicated effort. 2 people arriving at the same conclusions and solutions on separate projects when they probably should just pool resources and work on one project. That is the only crux of a clone project.

Some people need to get off their high horse and realize that this is GNU land and we all feed off each others work in one shape or another. PAT does it all time. So does Robby and so does Eric. I've seen lot's of "Fedora" esque' commands on Slackbuilds so the implied pretension isn't warranted here.

If anyone has half a brain, and you find yourself in a jam, you'll be hitting Rawhide (or some other reputable source) pretty damn quick.

brianL 11-12-2008 10:07 AM

Yes, there's nothing new under the sun. Everything's derived from something else.
Which distros are regarded as "forks" and which "parasites" of Slackware?

rworkman 11-12-2008 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jong357 (Post 3339563)
Some people need to get off their high horse and realize that this is GNU land and we all feed off each others work in one shape or another. PAT does it all time. So does Robby and so does Eric. I've seen lot's of "Fedora" esque' commands on Slackbuilds so the implied pretension isn't warranted here.

I've never said nor implied that looking at how another distribution does something (for inspiration or otherwise) is wrong. It's one thing to look at how Fedora does something and (try to) duplicate it; it's a whole 'nother breed of cat to take Fedora in its entirety, rebrand it to call it something else, add/remove a few things, and then release it as one's own work. Whether the GPL permits this or not is largely irrelevant; just because something isn't "illegal wrong" doesn't make it right.

I won't call names here, because I'm not intending to single anyone out for good or bad, and perhaps there are some of the "forks" who do occasionally send feedback, but as a whole, they do not. Basically, it's just frustrating to know that we're doing the "heavy lifting," so to speak, with very little (if any) help from the "fork" people. I can think of quite a few things those folks could be doing which would *really* be helpful: find bugs in upstream software which affect us and work on them; find new implementations of various things that we'll have to move to later, and go ahead and try to get them working in Slackware. Actual examples of some of those should be easy to find *if* they're following upstream developments as opposed to just watching the Slackware ChangeLog.

brianL 11-12-2008 10:42 AM

Yes, I agree. Anybody would feel the same frustration. And, as you said, about "illegal wrong", if something is not exactly illegal it may still be unethical.

jong357 11-12-2008 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rworkman (Post 3339585)
find bugs in upstream software which affect us and work on them; find new implementations of various things that we'll have to move to later, and go ahead and try to get them working in Slackware. Actual examples of some of those should be easy to find *if* they're following upstream developments as opposed to just watching the Slackware ChangeLog.

Agreed. That was my point with reporting upstream. When I've found bug's in coreutils, bash and multiple other progs, I don't email Pat. I email the projects mailing list. My findings will affect everyone on the next release of said package.

So.... Just because Slackware doesn't get bug reports from Vector, Slamd or who ever, doesn't mean they aren't helping the Slackware cause. One more distro is just one more group of people making things better for everyone. So, in that regard, I seriously doubt there is any true parasitic distro out there.

On a semi-related note, I've known about a findutils/removepkg bug for atleast a year now but you guys probably haven't seen it because your still at 4.2... I could have reported it eons ago or I could continue to do the same thing I have done and let you guys hit it on your own.... I've taken the same stance on other Slackware issues I've found. Doesn't necessarily mean I, or anyone else, doesn't contribute tho.

Secu-Slack 11-12-2008 01:58 PM

Still alive
 
No, I'm still building on my project, but rewriting codes, scripts, adding new stuff and testing takes a lot of my spare time. If I have any. That's why I need help with this if I want to release it within a year or so. And I don't need people that are crushing my distro to it's death even before it's released. That's not very motivating is it? If they are so smart, come up with something instead of complaining. Complaining is easy, working is not. Keep in mind that I'm doing this also for you... for free. Just like many other Linux developers. Without them, Linux will die.

And if you are shocked by my postings: I don't like people who can only complain and judge without any knowledge of what I'm doing. I'm just straight forward to these guys. Hate me or love me.

The idea behind Linux is that everyone provides a building block. One man could never have all the knowledge or time to build the perfect distro. But on man can build a good distro with all those building blocks provided by experts on every level and his own expertise.

My distro is based on Slackware just as Slackware is based on the Softlanding Linux System. The core of my Distro is totally rebuild for speed and security mostly from scratch. Only the extra programs will come directly from Slackware to save time so I can put all the effort into the core programs and thus making it Slackware comPATable if, but It can live without Pat's Slackware. Want Debian based? Done.. The only choice for Slackware is because it's clean and clear.

This is not a real fork or parasite, this is called progress, development, evolution and merging the best of distro's. Why shall I re-invent the wheel? See my distro as a merge of Slackware, LFS (hardened), Engarde Linux, Hardened Linux, (Free)BSD, Zenwalk, Vector Linux, Fedora and Debian.

It will fulfill the security you need today. Expect insane security where possible. Maybe it's not so user friendly to newbies and it will take some time to even get to the internet from your box. But believe me, it's worth the effort if you give a lot about your privacy and computer security. The only "problem" is, that you've to answer many (complicated) questions during install or configuration.

If I can make profit from it, I'll end my current job and make this project my life. I'm open to new ideas or any reasonable suggestions. It will be a project of us all. Yes, maybe it will die young. But the last couple of years I studied the wishes of people and the state of operating systems from today and I think there is a good market for it.

I even got an security solution for the so called "Cold Boot Attack" on encryption keys and passwords. I've got the solution on paper but not an easy way to implant it into my Distro because I need to rewrite and maintain parts of the kernel myself.


To put this in another way:

People who give a lot about privacy and security will love it. People who don't like to do some effort for it, won't.

And these days my distro's encryption is not allowed anymore in the US and it's save against the UK's law to hand over your encryption key to the...... Even if tell the password, you've lost the key somewhere before and your data wlll be save to prying eyes.

Woodsman 11-12-2008 03:51 PM

The additional spin-off or children distros exist because people find various aspects they do not like about the stock Slackware. There are several threads here at LQ addressing that issue. Various wish lists are an example of a certain level of dissatisfaction. Many people who stick with the stock Slackware modify the core installation in various ways. I have modified several rc.d scripts to my taste. I have added bash shell startup scripts. I have modified the startx script. Etc.

I have forwarded some of the mods to Pat. Whether he decides to incorporate the changes will not stop me from continuing with my modifications. The world is filled with approximately 6.5 billion people, which means 6.5 billion different opinions about how the world could spin. When a significant majority of people accept that simple fact then there will be far less conflict and violence in this world.

That several spin-off distros exist is a good thing. Permutations and variety is how humans invent and innovate. Pat is free to incorporate those ideas and he is free not to. I have written a hundred or so shell scripts to fine-tune Slackware. I share many of them at my web site and here at LQ too. So have many others here at LQ. Yet I do not expect or demand Pat or anybody else to use those tweaks.

I could convert those many tweaks into full-fledged packages, which users could install to their pleasure. In that respect, my effort is little different from the various children distros. I simply do not relabel my mods as a new distro.

There was an allegation posted in this thread that the developers of the children distros do not contribute upstream. I would like to see actual evidence rather than allegations. First, because free software is open to everybody to study, Pat is free to adopt any idea used in the children distros. Second, I suspect the various developers of the spin-off distros occasionally discuss issues with Pat without publicizing those discussions. Third, as mentioned by jong357, often bugs are not Slackware specific but upstream in the core software. Slackware spin-off developers are not required to report those bugs to Pat.

I raise my eyebrow whenever anybody uses the term parasite with respect to free software. As H_TeXMeX_H already shared, there is no such thing. If you want examples of human parasites, then look elsewhere outside of free software. The entire philosophy of statism is parasitical in nature and violent to the point of destroying this planet. Patents (software or otherwise) are examples of how statists promote this violence and destruction. The primary goal of patents and other statist supported monopolies is to stifle growth, individuality, independence, and to create indentured slaves of a majority of people.

Healthy human parents encourage children to venture on their own, to explore, and to learn to think independently. Healthy parents are pleased and proud to watch children grow and develop as unique individuals. Free software encourages this same healthy approach.

That the inner core Slackware developers and outer core Slackware users perform the "heavy lifting" is non-sequitur. Why should Slackers be emotionally upset if others benefit? Slackers get what they wanted. Users of spin-off distros get what they wanted. This argument is similar to how statists provoke emotional responses to justify various forms of theft under the color of law. This type of emotional response is based upon the free rider fallacy. There is always a spillover effect in every human interaction. Avoiding that effect is impossible. In any environment of free association and voluntary exchange, nobody receives less than they bargained. The spillover effect means some people get more, but nobody gets less than they bargained.

The healthiest relationships are those that are reciprocating and mutually beneficial. Yes, if downstream beneficiaries offered their modifications upstream that would be more emotionally satisfying, but those downstream modifications are not required to be offered or accepted. One argument asks child distro developers to help more with the core Slackware, but a counter argument can be offered that Pat should incorporate more of the modifications created downstream.

Isaac Newton often is cited for his statement Pigmaei gigantum humeris impositi plusquam ipsi gigantes vident: If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants. This statement describes the essence and philosophical core of free software. The term parasite does not apply well to free software.

SqdnGuns 11-12-2008 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jong357 (Post 3339563)
Not sure why such an old thread was resurrected...

It was in the graveyard until he posted....

Guess I got my answer here..........

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...9/#post3339774

keefaz 11-12-2008 04:21 PM

Regarding the posted rc.6 script, I don't think it is an improvement to put commands in background while the system shuts down but YMMV of course

lawquest 11-13-2008 12:58 AM

I have used Vector Linux for years now. I don't know if its a "fork" or not, but it is only through it that I learned of slackware. Dependent on gui programs, I look upon slackware with something akin to reverence. I suspect there are many who first learned of slackware through Vector Linux. Seems to me that they support each other. If not, as I have no intention of switching from VL, I suggest that the slackware folks propose something that I could do to help slackware. I really don't want to be a parasite. That "help" should probably not be by way of asking me to contribute to some slackware forum I don't know enough to be of much help.

mcnalu 11-13-2008 01:51 AM

Wow, this has turned into a fascinating thread, especially for psychologists and anthropologists :)

I think the term parasite is too strong. Are people who install and use slackware without subscribing, donating or contributing to it parasites too?

I think the legal position of the GPL is closely aligned with its ethical position. When you release GPL'd software you can say you are the original author of it, but you are releasing it - letting go of it - and giving it a life of its own. Woodsman's child analogy seems very apt. Of course, the original author can voice disapproval of future usage and changes, but using the term parasite seems to miss the point of free software.

I listened to the tllts interview with Pat the other day and he name checked Slax and I didn't detect any negativity towards it.

The OP edited his 11-feb-08 edit in the original post yesterday to remove some rather impolite comments.

BTW That "standing on the shoulders of giants" quote from Newton is now viewed as being meant as sarcastic- he had a pretty big ego!

lawquest 11-13-2008 02:15 AM

The reasons I restrict my input to this fine group to one reply every couple of years or so should, from the forgoing, be rather obvious.

khronosschoty 11-13-2008 02:20 AM

Yeah I think there is a lot of misunderstanding. Any way maybe this might help

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/global-anti-user-day

Yesterday, Microsoft announced something they called "Global Anti-Piracy Day".

Software companies like Microsoft often refer to copying they don't approve of as "piracy." They suggest that such copying is ethically equivalent to murder and robbery. Even these far-fetched analogies are not enough for Microsoft, who in their press release yesterday updated the comparison to draw a connection between such copying and organized crime: "There is growing evidence that highly organized, transnational criminal organizations and networks are involved in the counterfeiting of software..."

I think the quote above fits about right. I disagree with that stance on things. I think that is why some people dislike the term "parasite". Yet I think it would be foolish to think, that because that extreme exists, that there are no "parasites". Inasmuch as there are "parasites" in this world there are folks like Microsoft. If taken far to extreme there is little or no difference between the two camps.

Edit: Just to be clear I agree with the Free Software foundations stance. I am a huge GNU fan.

mcnalu 11-13-2008 06:50 AM

Although I'm disagreeing with Robby here and also with Eric when he mentioned "parasite" on another thread a while ago, I do hugely appreciate and benefit from their contribution to slackware and slackbuilds.org. I might well feel differently if I'd put in the work that they have.

hitest 11-13-2008 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawquest (Post 3340237)
I have used Vector Linux for years now. I don't know if its a "fork" or not, but it is only through it that I learned of slackware. Dependent on gui programs, I look upon slackware with something akin to reverence. I suspect there are many who first learned of slackware through Vector Linux.

Hi lawquest,

I tried Vector once and found it to be very stable. If you ever want to try Slackware we will be happy to help you. Slackware can be a bit daunting for people more comfortable with a GUI than a shell prompt.
The support documentation for Slackware is excellent.

rworkman 11-16-2008 11:40 PM

As an aside, you might note the fascinating rebuttals over at http://forum.vectorlinux.com/index.php?topic=7740.0 - assuming the childishness isn't edited away by now.

SqdnGuns 11-17-2008 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rworkman (Post 3344450)
As an aside, you might note the fascinating rebuttals over at http://forum.vectorlinux.com/index.php?topic=7740.0 - assuming the childishness isn't edited away by now.

Did you at least get a laugh out of the picture posted?

rworkman 11-17-2008 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SqdnGuns (Post 3344455)
Did you at least get a laugh out of the picture posted?

Yep; nice pic of the guy's mirror. ;-)

bgeddy 11-17-2008 08:11 AM

Quote:

As an aside, you might note the fascinating rebuttals over at http://forum.vectorlinux.com/index.php?topic=7740.0 - assuming the childishness isn't edited away by now.
I think you've upset them Robby. Interesting that our friend Caitlyn Martin is a member and seeing her comments about Puppy Linux reviews.

Oh well - distro wars again.. ;) - Never a dull moment and all that..

Oh - and BTW this post is not supposed to be taken seriously..in case it's not obvious..

H_TeXMeX_H 11-17-2008 08:50 AM

wow, that pic of rworkman is quite funny, although mean in a way.

Anyway, I'm sick of this thread.

My last word: 'parasite' is a term incompatible with the GPL

signing off...

dugan 11-17-2008 09:04 AM

After considering carefully, I decided that deleting this post was more constructive than keeping it. If you PM me, I'll send it to you in private.

orasis 02-14-2009 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahko (Post 3339036)
Thats the reason these parasitic (i agree 100% with the term) distributions are not successful. Neither of them. And neither of them ever will. They could just be addons to Slackware like gware and all other gnome providers for slackware and help upstream. Instead they take advantage of everything thats been committed upstream, code, packages, bugfixes, everything and give absolutely nothing back.
Most of them, as far as i have seen, just use other people's scripts (slacky.eu etc) to build the additional packages. I call that childish. Sure Pat V. says to have fun while doing it, learn, experiment. But is there really a point in releasing all those distros to public? There are around 20 Slackware clones that try to deal the same "gap". Package management (most of them using slapt-get) and having xfce instead of kde as their main desktop environment. When only 1 would suffice.
Oh well...

I know that this topic is hella old --but dude...

The worst thing for any brand name is to have it taken away from the public eye. - Distros 'based' on Slackware is free advertising for a man who cannot afford to buy ads everywhere on teh nets and generally when someone uses a 'based on' distro they become curious as to how they real thing operates and usually stick with the original. So, that's a +++.

Another benefit to Slackware is that these based on distros continue to show that Slackware is relevant against the onslaught of the 'best 1995 has to offer' slogan.

As for calling someone who makes a rebranding etc of Slackware childish because most of the programs they use are from elsewhere --Have you ever looked at Slackware sources? P did not code everything in Slackware by hand - most of it's programs were written by other people which P then incorporates into the distro, so I guess by your meter Slackware itself is childish, sheesh!

P.S No one can help upstream if they do not have a clue how Slackware works in the first place and a good way to learn is to have fun with your own distro --that way you can break things and move on. If, for instance, every Slackware noob was contributing software to the upstream not only would it clog and waste time but it would also result in a crappy Slackware! - Is that what you want?


No offense but dude.. I mean lighten up.

orasis 02-14-2009 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no.guru (Post 3339381)
*cough* SLS *cough*


No no! Slackware was written from scratch and all of it's userland and the Linux kernel itself was written by one man *rolls eyes*

alMubarmij 02-15-2009 10:42 PM

Thank you.
but what exactly your script do ?


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:50 AM.