If not slack, then what?

~sHyLoCk~ · 09-22-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w1k0

That's right! I'm trying FreeBSD out of curiosity. With Slackware everything is all right.

Please share your experience of freeBSD

w1k0 · 09-22-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~sHyLoCk~

Please share your experience of freeBSD

As I mentioned above I have a lot of annoying problems. Yesterday I registered as a member of http://forums.freebsd.org/. I'm still waiting for e-mail with my registration's confirmation. Now I seek forums for some helpful tips.

dwr1 · 09-22-2009, 03:04 PM

From what I've read and heard, freebsd userland is much nicer than the general userland in linux; it's better engineered and thought through. But stuff like fuse, udev, newer hardware support seems to come to linux (kernel) first. And linux (kernel) often gets more experimental stuff before freebsd, which is good or bad depending on your standpoint, but good from my standpoint. I'll still give freebsd a shot oneday, mind you.

w1k0 · 09-22-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~sHyLoCk~

Please share your experience of freeBSD

Problems

I don't complain about the lacking of the sophisticated functions or the weak support of the newest hardware. I'm unable to run basic functions on three years old machine.

xterm issue

I can't run the command:

$ xterm +sb -fg white -bg black geometry 99x49+64+0 -fn 9x15

because xterm replies:

Code:

Warning: Cannot convert string "nil2" to type FontStruct

and runs in small window.

It displays the same message when I run it with the command xterm alone.

I tried to add font path /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/misc/ using the command:

$ xset fp+ /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/misc/

but xset replied:

Code:

xset:  bad font path element (#23), possible causes are:
    Directory does not exist or has wrong permissions
    Directory missing fonts.dir
    Incorrect font server address or syntax

so it was impossible too.

The 23-rd element in fonts.alias file is nil2. Directory /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/misc/ exists and fonts.dir file exists too.

So I have to use small xterm window with tiny font.

Midnight Commander issue

I can't change Midnight Commander configuration. When I try to write changes the program displays the message:

Code:

Setup saved to ~/.mc/ini

but doesn't create ~/.mc/ini file and when I exit it and run for the next time the program runs in the default configuration.

Default Midnight Commander settings are very uncomfortable from my point of view.

su issue

I can't use the command such as:

$ su -c "ppp -ddial provider_name"

despite I'm the member of the group wheel because su replays:

Code:

Password:
su: only root may use -c

So I have to open root's session to execute root's commands.

It isn't comfortable when I want to run just one command.

mount issue

I can mount my pendrive in the system using the command:

# mount -t msdosfs /dev/da0s1 /pendrive

I added that line:

Code:

/dev/da0s1 /pendrive msdosfs rw,noauto 0 0

to /etc/fstab file but when I try the command:

# mount pendrive

program mount replies:

Code:

mount: pendrive: unknown special file or file system

It's strange because I still can mount pendrive manually using the above command.

Manual mounting of devices isn't comfortable.

mouse and keyboard issues

I described that kind of issues generally in the post #56. I spent a lot of time reading and testing different tips found on http://forums.freebsd.org/, http://www.thinkwiki.org/ and on the other sites. None of these tips worked for me.

freebsd-update issue

Today I stated that the system update may resolve some of these issues. So I ran the commands:

# freebsd-update fetch

and:

# freebsd-update install

After reboot I observed unpleasant messages:

Code:

KLD pflog.ko: depends on pf - not available
kldload: Can't load pflog: No such file or directory
/etc/rc: WARNING: Unable to load kernel module pflog
link_elf: symbol altq_disable undefined
kldload: Can't load pf: No such file or directory
/etc/rc: WARNING: Unable to load kernel module pf

Because I didn't see any positive results of that update I canceled it using the command:

# freebsd-update rollback

Now pf and pflog work well again as they did before the update.

http://forums.freebsd.org/ issue

It's 24 hours when I registered in http://forums.freebsd.org/. I'm still waiting for e-mail with the confirmation. Without it I can't post to that forum.

***

Midnight Commander issue (cont.)

Finally I removed Midnight Commander and installed Midnight Commander Light. It allows to store configuration settings in ~/.mc/ini but has ugly colors theme. I sought for default color theme in Internet but as yet I didn't found any.

Anyway I'd like to ask on FreeBSD forum why regular Midnight Commander's port doesn't work well.

http://forums.freebsd.org/ issue (cont.)

Today I got e-mail with my registration's confirmation. Unfortunately I still can't complete the registration because of some problems with FreeBSD forums. The site is temporarily dead.

Before it displayed a really cool message:

Quote:

Error 503 Service Unavailable
Service Unavailable
Guru Meditation:
XID: 875147789
Varnish

Now it displays something more conventional:

Quote:

Database error
The database has encountered a problem.
Please try the following:

* Load the page again by clicking the Refresh button in your web browser.
* Open the forums.freebsd.org home page, then try to open another page.
* Click the Back button to try another link.

The forums.freebsd.org forum technical staff have been notified of the error, though you may contact them if the problem persists.

We apologise for any inconvenience.

So I have to wait a little.

***

http://forums.freebsd.org/ issue (cont.)

Bingo! FreeBSD forums work again and I was able to complete my registration.

Solutions

Before asking questions on FreeBSD forums I installed the entire system once again from the scratch. I wanted to get rid of the mess I made trying different tips.

xterm issue -- solved

I caused that issue myself. I put into fonts.alias file aliases for Latin 2 encoded fonts such as:

Code:

9x15pl         -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--15-140-75-75-c-90-iso8859-2

Among them I put two commented lines such as:

Code:

# 7x13euro     -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--13-120-75-75-c-70-iso8859-15

Today during the configuration of the newly installed system I discovered that it's enough to remove these two comments to avoid the problems with xterm.

Midnight Commander issue -- partially solved

I invented the method of storing configuration settings when using regular Midnight Commander. It's enough to create ~/.mc directory. The program is unable to create it from ``Options | Save setup'' menu. When the directory exists the program stores there its settings and allows to write to cooledit.clip file from menu ``File | Copy to file''.

I reported that bug to the maintainer of misc/mc port.

Unfortunately I encountered some new bug. After the reboot of the system Midnight Commander runs properly but a few minutes later it starts to run in about 30 seconds.

Midnight Commander issue -- completely solved

It seems I finally resolved the last problem. When I installed FreeBSD yesterday I configured local network in a proper way. When I installed it today I forgot to customize /etc/hosts file. It caused some error messages during start and stop of X Window as well as slow startup of Midnight Commander.

su issue -- solved

I inspected man su in FreeBSD. In Linux -c switch allows to put the specific command. In FreeBSD:

Quote:

-c class
Use the settings of the specified login class. Only allowed for the super-user.

mount issue -- solved

It was issue caused by tiny differences between Linux and FreeBSD.

Assuming I have in Linux's /etc/fstab an entry:

Code:

/dev/sdb1 /pendrive vfat user,noauto,umask=000 0 0

and in FreeBSD's /etc/fstab an entry:

Code:

/dev/da0s1 /pendrive msdosfs rw,noauto 0 0

I can mount pendrive in Linux using the commands:

# cd /
# mount pendrive

but I cannot mount pendrive in FreeBSD with these commands -- I have to use the commands:

# cd /
# mount /pendrive

In the other words: when I use mount command in FreeBSD I have to use the full path regardless of the current directory.

Midnight Commander issue from post #56 -- partially solved

I wrote in post #56: ``Midnight Commander displays strange characters (including Polish diacritics) instead of the frames''. That problem concerns console mode -- in X Window Midnight Commander displays frames properly.

I wrote two scripts resolving that problem by replacing diacritics in console mode by sticky characters:

Code:

#!/bin/sh
if [ "$TERM" = "xterm" ] ; then mc ; else mc -a ; fi

Code:

#!/bin/csh
if ( "$term" == "xterm" ) then
mc
else
mc -a
endif

I called both these scripts ``cm''. First is for regular users and second for root. I put them in the appropriate ~/bin directories.

In the first case instead of the script is possible to use an alias assuming that regular users use /bin/sh as a shell.

Unfortunately it's impossible to change the second script to an alias assuming that root uses /bin/csh as a shell.

So to avoid the exceptions I used in all cases scripts.

Of course you can use sh script for root and csh one for other users. The script doesn't have to use the same shell as the user. I wrote csh script as an exercise and I suppose it's my last csh script.

Polish keyboard issue from post #56 -- partially solved

I wrote in post #56: ``Polish keyboard doesn't work in CLI nor in X Window despite I installed it during set up procedures''. In fact I thought about that problem in a Linux way.

I assumed: if in /etc/rc.conf there are keyboard map and font definitions:

Code:

keymap="pl_PL.ISO8859-2"
font8x14="iso02-8x14"
font8x16="iso02-8x16"
font8x8="iso02-8x8"

my keyboard should work in console mode.

I supposed also I need two keyboard definitions for X Window: one for UTF-8 and one for ISO8859-2.

I was wrong.

In FreeBSD to use national keyboards each user needs ~/.login_conf file with the definition of the character set and the language:

Code:

me: :charset=iso-8859-2: :lang=pl_PL.ISO8859-2:

Both these definitions are necessary to valid work of the keyboard in the console mode, terminal emulator and GUI applications.

Unfortunately lang variable changes also the language of the system and the programs. So either you have Polish keyboard or you have English-language system and applications. It's very disappointing.

So I have new problem: how to get Polish keyboard and don't lose English-language system.

charset/lang issue -- solved

I removed ``me:'' definitions from ~/.login_conf files.

Instead of it I put in user's ~/.profile files these two lines:

Code:

MM_CHARSET=ISO-8859-2; export MM_CHARSET
LC_CTYPE=pl_PL.ISO8859-2; export LC_CTYPE

and in root's .cshrc file these two lines:

Code:

setenv  MM_CHARSET      ISO-8859-2
setenv  LC_CTYPE        pl_PL.ISO8859-2

In result I can type and write in Polish language using console, xterm and GUI applications and the system language is still English.

auto-complete issue from post #56 -- solved

I wrote in post #56: ``Auto-complete function doesn't work for regular users -- it works for root''. Now I think it's a feature of the shell. In FreeBSD root uses by default csh and regular users use sh. The first shell offers completion and the second doesn't. So either change shell or don't complain.

third mouse button's paste function issue from post #56 -- solved

I solved these problems:

* Third mouse button doesn't work at all.
* Third mouse button's emulation works in X Window and doesn't work in the console mode independently of HAL.

Third mouse button's paste function started to work after I put in /boot/loader.conf file that line:

Code:

hw.psm.synaptics_support="1"

It should affect Synaptics' TouchPad but in my case instead of it it affected automagically TrackPoint.

freebsd-update issue -- solved

If you use custom kernel after the update affecting generic kernel modules you have to rebuild your own kernel. Thanks for the tip to anomie from http://forums.freebsd.org.

TouchPad scrolling issue -- partially solved

I have installed in my system port /usr/ports/x11-drivers/xf86-input-synaptics.

I added two options to /boot/loader.conf:

Code:

hw.psm.synaptics_support="1"
debug.psm.loglevel="4"

I updated my /etc/X11/xorg.conf:

Code:

Section "ServerLayout"
        Identifier     "X.org Configured"
        Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
        #InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
        InputDevice    "Touchpad0" "CorePointer"
        InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

Section "ServerFlags"
        Option          "AllowEmptyInput"
EndSection

.
.
.

Section "Module"
        Load  "dbe"
        Load  "dri"
        Load  "dri2"
        Load  "extmod"
        Load  "glx"
        Load  "record"
        Load  "synaptics"
EndSection

.
.
.

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Touchpad0"
        Driver      "synaptics"
        Option      "Protocol"              "psm"
        Option      "Device"                "/dev/psm0"

        Option      "LeftEdge"              "1700"
        Option      "RightEdge"             "5300"
        Option      "TopEdge"               "1700"
        Option      "BottomEdge"            "4200"

        Option      "FingerLow"             "25"
        Option      "FingerHigh"            "30"

        Option      "MaxTapTime"            "180"
        Option      "MaxTapMov"             "220"

        Option      "VertScrollDelta"       "100"
        Option      "HorizScrollDelta"      "100"

        Option      "MinSpeed"              "0.06"
        Option      "MaxSpeed"              "0.06"
        Option      "AccelFactor"           "0.0010"

        Option      "ScrollButtonRepeat"    "100"
        Option      "UpDownScrolling"       "on"
        Option      "UpDownRepeat"          "on"
        Option      "LeftRightScrolling"    "on"
        Option      "LeftRightRepeat"       "on"
EndSection

Because moused used psm0 device:

# ps ax | grep psm0

Code:

   40  ??  WL     0:00.43 [irq12: psm0]
  512  ??  Is     0:00.18 /usr/sbin/moused -p /dev/psm0 -t auto
  699  ??  I      0:00.01 hald-addon-mouse-sysmouse: /dev/psm0 (hald-addon-mouse-sy)
 1217  p1  S+     0:00.00 grep psm0

I disabled it in /etc/rc.conf:

Code:

#moused_enable="YES"
#moused_type="auto"

moused_enable="NO"
#moused_nodefault_enable="NO"

After reboot TrackPoint and TouchPad don't work in console mode because moused is disabled.

TrackPoint works in X Window as before -- without scrolling. TouchPad works with vertical scrolling but without horizontal one.

As for scrolling with TouchPad it's progress but the price is high: mouse stopped to work in the console mode. TrackPoint scrolling issue is still unsolved.

Thanks for these tips to LateNiteTV and guro from http://forums.freebsd.org.

TrackPoint and TouchPad issues -- solved

I compared the output of the command:

# lshal | grep info.product

in FreeBSD 7.2 and Slackware 13.0.

Slackware's output is much longer than FreeBSD's one.

Among devices lacking in FreeBSD and appearing in Slackware there are:

Code:

  info.product = 'SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad'  (string)
  info.product = 'TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint'  (string)

So it seems it's impossible to configure IBM TrackPoint and Synaptics TouchPad with FreeBSD 7.2 and HAL.

Conclusions

Switching from Slackware Linux to FreeBSD can cause some problems:

1. Caused by user's inattention (see: xterm).
2. Caused by errors in programs (see: Midnight Commander).
3. Caused by differences between commands in GNU/Linux and *BSD (see: su and mount).
4. Caused by different fonts (see: Midnight Commander).
5. Caused by different methods of keyboard configuration (see: Polish keyboard and charset/lang).
6. Caused by different shells (see: auto-complete).
7. Caused by strange dependencies (see: third mouse button's paste function).
8. Caused by system's specific properties (see: freebsd-update).
9. Caused by relations between system-wide and X Window configuration (see: TouchPad scrolling).
10. Caused by poor HAL (see: TrackPoint and TouchPad).

Some of these problems can be solved but some can't -- some solutions are simply statements that the problem cannot be solved.

***

FreeBSD is different than Slackware Linux. On three FreeBSD installation CDs there aren't: GIMP, XMMS, Audacious, Xine, MPlayer, GQview or Thunderbird though there's Firefox. It seems that FreeBSD is first of all designed as server or firewall system -- Slackware Linux is better as desktop system.

If you'd like to know how FreeBSD community sees GNU/Linux look here: Linux vs. BSD = No real difference?.

If you'd like to have a try FreeBSD you'll find after the installation of the system the valuable hints in ``FreeBSD Handbook'':

# less /usr/share/doc/handbook/book.txt

foodown · 09-24-2009, 10:40 PM

FreeBSD.

I like Freebie a lot in that it is a no-nonsense, non-overcomplicated *nix, just like Slackware is. It offers just about everything functionality wise that slack does, but it's not set up as much the way I like out-of-the-box as slack is, and it lacks that intangible personality that slack has.

markush · 09-25-2009, 11:01 AM

Hello together,

this thread inspired me to give Gentoo a second shot.

It is very nice but without my experiences with Slackware it would be very difficult to configure Gentoo on my laptop.

Some years ago I tried Gentoo but never got it really working, now it seems that I will be able to install it as a useable System.

Markus

manwithaplan · 09-25-2009, 12:47 PM

I have to say ... I tried Slackware once and I really didnt like it, lacked solid package manager and dependency check ... So, I tried an LFS build and quickly migrated to Gentoo for portage. Haven't looked back since, other then to try out Funtoo; which in my opinion is Gentoo enhanced. I like Arch, but there are certain issue's I have with it that would prevent a switch. And my other OS of choice is CrunchBang#!. Not a fan of Ubuntu or any other deriviate, but #! has the appeal of a slim, fast and sleek OS, so its an exception.

Jeebizz · 09-25-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manwithaplan

lacked solid package manager and dependency check

So then what does pkgtool do then?

In what way is it not solid? There are also alternatives, like sbopkg Also, no dependency checking means what exactly? As far as the latter, why should Slackware need such a 'feature?' I don't worry about any dependencies, and nothing is really stopped me from installing packages.

Jeebizz · 09-25-2009, 01:06 PM

I got one. If not Slackware, then an abacus!

sahko · 09-25-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeebizz

So then what does pkgtool do then?

In what way is it not solid? There are also alternatives, like sbopkg

Id like to quote this cause what you wrote makes it sound, at least to me, that sbopkg is an alternative to pkgtool. Which is not. Sbopkg is just a collection of scripts which build packages from slackbuilds.org, a SlackBuild script resource which supplements the packages of the official Slackware tree with unsupported applications. You cant use sbopkg to deal with official Slackware packages.

manwithaplan · 09-25-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeebizz

So then what does pkgtool do then?

In what way is it not solid? There are also alternatives, like sbopkg Also, no dependency checking means what exactly? As far as the latter, why should Slackware need such a 'feature?' I don't worry about any dependencies, and nothing is really stopped me from installing packages.

Too be honest I didn't give it enough of a chance. Its been awhile, and I noticed that there has been 64bit release. I wasn't trying to start a debate, it was my first impression sometime ago.

Jeebizz · 09-25-2009, 01:25 PM

@sahko: My mistake. I haven't used sbopkg at all, since I have no need for it. I only saw a few screens and misjudged it as an 'alternate' pkg manager. Sorry...

~sHyLoCk~ · 09-25-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manwithaplan

Too be honest I didn't give it enough of a chance. Its been awhile, and I noticed that there has been 64bit release. I wasn't trying to start a debate, it was my first impression sometime ago.

Being a regular slackware and gentoo user I understand both sides of arguments. Gentoo has features which slackware doesn't and slack does which gentoo can not. I have always looked at Slackware as an operating system, providing you with the "almost all necessary applications" that you will need for daily use. That is a plus point. For extra apps you can get it through slackbuilds or various websites hosting pre-built packages. If you still don't find what you are looking for , you can get the source and compile things on your own. Dependency resolution can be a problem in this case if the stuff you are trying to install doesn't clearly state what it's requirements are.
For gentoo, it's great, just too time consuming and definitely not for everyone. Getting the system the way I want to takes me days. Even simple applications like firefox and java takes hours to compile. Not to mention if there is a gcc upgrade then emerge -ev system + world. :P I like both, but i do more "serious work" with slack. I feel comfortable using it.In the end that's what matters, your comfort and requirements. I still go back to windows for "serious gaming".

Anyway the point is that every distro has it's pros and cons, just by discussing about it doesn't mean a flamewar has to start [hopefully!].

linuxpokernut · 09-25-2009, 01:57 PM

Cant possibly answer with one vote.

Gentoo wont install on this box no matter how hard I try. I would give it a shot if for gaming.

NetBSD would probably be what I would choose for any sort of self hosted web server.

Ubuntu is what I would put on my wife and I's laptop.

vigi · 09-25-2009, 05:04 PM

I would also give bsd another spin, I tried so many before slackware that my desk of CDs looked like the plasma screen. I became disillusioned with distros not following a standard. slackware has this in common with bsd but for me is far easier to use (Slackware should be The LSB). Puppy linux customized for a desktop system would be my other choice.

If slackware were no more then I would assume, so too would be the remixers (distros?).