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moisespedro 03-06-2014 09:46 AM

I was reading about some distro
 
And. I want to know what you, slackers, think about this
http://www.gobolinux.org/index.php?page=at_a_glance
It seems interesting

szboardstretcher 03-06-2014 09:58 AM

I personally think its time to rename the directories to something more readable. But FHS shows no willingness to do so. Which I dont mind at all, that's their thing. Whatever.

I think /etc/ should be named /config/

And a root /logging/ directory should exist.

Mnt? really? Can't be bothered to spell out 'Mount'?

We are really past the days where our space is limited, and filenames can be more than 8 characters. so why not utilize 'words' instead of 'abbreviations and abstractions.'

I like it.

guanx 03-06-2014 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by szboardstretcher (Post 5129977)
... FHS shows no willingness to do so. Which I dont mind at all, that's their thing. ...

I guess as soon as these are renamed accordingly, people must move from the keyboard to the mouse. Whether this is more harmful to the carpal tunnel cannot be decided by the FHS -- maybe WHO instead.

szboardstretcher 03-06-2014 10:13 AM

\t is your friend when it comes to long file names/directory names.

guanx 03-06-2014 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by szboardstretcher (Post 5129987)
\t is your friend when it comes to long file names/directory names.

"ls -l /<Shift>p\trograms/<Shift>\tBash/\t\t3.0/b\tin/b\tash" is more keystrokes than "ls -l /bin/bash". Or did I count it wrong?

55020 03-06-2014 10:29 AM

Lack of knowledge of The Elements Of Style: UNIX As Literature considered harmful

Unix is not just a functional implementation of POSIX. More important than that, it is a culture and a language and a heritage. It has humanity. It has continuity. If you reject the vocabulary, then you also reject the culture, and the people that participate in the culture, and their accumulated experience. If you're going to do that successfully, well, you need to be as powerful as Apple. GoboLinux is not as powerful as Apple.

I see GoboLinux supports "English | Português | Deutsch | Русском | Magyar | Français | Español | Svenska | Italiano | 日本語 | Türkçe | Norsk". Maybe they should support a project with similar aims, by throwing all those out and replacing them with Volapük.

szboardstretcher 03-06-2014 10:48 AM

Thats fine and dandy.

But when a car company comes up with a new system, called say "Battery based Blinker fluid injector system" they don't shoe horn it into a previous term just because there is a culture surrounding previous car terms.

If everyone continued doing everything for culture/historic/nostalgia related reasons, we would still be in the stone ages.

But im done here. Im not going to have an opinion argument over 'directory names' when I just now realized that I really and truly don't care one way or another.

At the end of the day, I will make symlinks to the old directory names for easier reading anyway.

Code:

cd /
ln -s /etc/ this_is_a_directory_that_contains_configuration_files
ln -s /bin/ this_is_a_directory_that_contains_user_binaries
ln -s /tmp/ i_think_this_directory_is_tamp_which_means_to_pound_down_a_pole_into_the_ground_im_not_sure
ln -s /usr/ where_all_the_heroin_is_stored
ln -s /var/ y_vary_interesting_files_go_here

and so on

enorbet 03-06-2014 10:56 AM

Greetz
Several years ago I met a software developer from Brazil who told me that due to quirks in language, specifically for him, Portuguese, that many Brazilians used English as if it was part of an icon because it was just shorter and simpler. I don't know how much he was qualified to speak for large groups but I think the basic concept is sound and complies with KISS. Why spell out "mount" when everyone knows what "mnt" means? As was pointed out, even if you are a wiz with the tab key, there is still great advantage to keeping terms short.

Much more importantly, as soon as you change directory structure and/or naming conventions you immediately break everything that has gone before and to what advantage? This is my major complaint about distros with auto-dependency resolving. They are forced to restructure to do what they've added on while avoiding conflicts and this breaks compatibility and fragments Linux. Add to this, some restructure exactly in order to break compatibility to isolate themselves in hopes of becoming some de facto standard, the precursor to proprietary. I find this incredibly selfish and short-sighted.

One of the greatest strengths of *Nix is compliance with standards that insures not only the ability to accumulate skills (instead of reinventing the wheel and tossing all your hard work in the trash bin) but also The Community. The more that distros create arbitrary change the more fragmented Linux becomes and the size of communities that "speak the same language and dialect" dwindles.

IMHO that is not a worthwhile tradeoff.

55020 03-06-2014 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by szboardstretcher (Post 5130008)
But when a car company comes up with a new system, called say "Battery based Blinker fluid injector system" they don't shoe horn it into a previous term just because there is a culture surrounding previous car terms.

Where do you think the word 'car' comes from?

Quote:

Originally Posted by szboardstretcher (Post 5130008)
If everyone continued doing everything for culture/historic/nostalgia related reasons, we would still be in the stone ages.

Amongst other things, I do prehistoric archaeology (Neolithic and Bronze Age). Their culture progressed in incremental changes that were sometimes large and sometimes small. So does Unix.

Quote:

Originally Posted by szboardstretcher (Post 5130008)
ln -s /usr/ where_all_the_heroin_is_stored

I once snapshotted a load of developers' files from /gprs to /goats_piss_really_slowly -- it took them weeks to notice.

szboardstretcher 03-06-2014 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 55020 (Post 5130022)
Amongst other things, I do prehistoric archaeology (Neolithic and Bronze Age). Their culture progressed in incremental changes that were sometimes large and sometimes small.

Where do you do this? Do you get to travel a lot? I think that's an awesome sounding profession. Or is it a hobby?

moisespedro 03-06-2014 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enorbet (Post 5130016)
Greetz
Several years ago I met a software developer from Brazil who told me that due to quirks in language, specifically for him, Portuguese, that many Brazilians used English as if it was part of an icon because it was just shorter and simpler. I don't know how much he was qualified to speak for large groups but I think the basic concept is sound and complies with KISS. Why spell out "mount" when everyone knows what "mnt" means? As was pointed out, even if you are a wiz with the tab key, there is still great advantage to keeping terms short.

Much more importantly, as soon as you change directory structure and/or naming conventions you immediately break everything that has gone before and to what advantage? This is my major complaint about distros with auto-dependency resolving. They are forced to restructure to do what they've added on while avoiding conflicts and this breaks compatibility and fragments Linux. Add to this, some restructure exactly in order to break compatibility to isolate themselves in hopes of becoming some de facto standard, the precursor to proprietary. I find this incredibly selfish and short-sighted.

One of the greatest strengths of *Nix is compliance with standards that insures not only the ability to accumulate skills (instead of reinventing the wheel and tossing all your hard work in the trash bin) but also The Community. The more that distros create arbitrary change the more fragmented Linux becomes and the size of communities that "speak the same language and dialect" dwindles.

IMHO that is not a worthwhile tradeoff.

You only know "mnt" stands for "mount" once you learnt it. Just think about "/usr", for example, it is often misunderstood as "user" but it actually stands for "Unix System Resource". And, Gobo's way (lets call it this way) does not break anything. I am not saying I like it, I am just saying that it doesn't break compatibility.

55020 03-06-2014 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by szboardstretcher (Post 5130024)
Where do you do this? Do you get to travel a lot? I think that's an awesome sounding profession. Or is it a hobby?

Thanks, but we are just amateurs. I get to travel approx five miles ;)
http://csirm.wordpress.com/ and http://www.bingleyhistory.co.uk/cup_and_ring.html
We have circumstantial evidence that Bronze Age people were incorporating neolithic rock art into their burials, maybe a thousand years after the rocks were decorated. Some people think the rock art tradition even continued into the Iron Age. But over the same centuries tool technology and agriculture seems to have changed in sudden bursts. Some modern research indicates that there were hunter-gatherer communities and agricultural communities in the same place at the same time for hundreds of years. These were people who were modern in every way, except culturally. They were weird :scratch:

Sorry for the off-topic :redface:

kikinovak 03-06-2014 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by szboardstretcher (Post 5129977)
Mnt? really? Can't be bothered to spell out 'Mount'?

A short glance at the words of UNIX ("mnt", "umount", "ls", "cp", "mv", "rm", "passwd", "mkfs", "fsck") should suffice to illustrate the fact that UNIX developers around the world are still struggling with the concept of vowels.

:D

gnashley 03-06-2014 12:40 PM

Well, filesystems are already represented in a virtual way and there's nothing to stop you from 'customizing' what is displayed -even without having to change underlying structures. Custom versions of file-managers/ls, etc could be made to show and use something different.

I've looked at gobo and earlier predecessors it was based on. All wind up with longer names and less-informative, less-useful name structures. As an aside, the current buzz around eliminating /bin, /sbin and /lib similarly accomplishes a less-useful, less-informative structure.

genss 03-06-2014 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by szboardstretcher (Post 5129977)
Mnt? really? Can't be bothered to spell out 'Mount'?

mnt is when you do a quick mount :)


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