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Old 07-31-2009, 06:15 PM   #1
Shingoshi
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I'm looking for the brave who could manhandle a SlackHammer!


There has been a suggestion made for the inclusion of the Hammer Filesystem in Slackware. But as I've already pointed out in another post, that isn't so likely to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shingoshi View Post
I have been especially interested in their dedication to the delivery of a native clustering kernel. If Hammer can be delivered to Linux without dependency on the Dragonfly kernel it runs on, Hammer would indeed be a fantastic asset. But I see problems with the porting of Hammer to Linux.
1.) Linux is not yet native cluster capable.
2.) There is too much conflict between different sources as to what clustering should be on Linux.
3.) Much of that conflict is due to the economic considerations of "corporate distributions: Redhat, Suse, Mandriva. And while Debian is not corporate by definition, they have their own set of aspirations which are not conducive to negotiation.

And then, there's one more issue that can't be dismissed regarding Slackware. There would likely be resistance from the majority of Slackware users (being seen as unnecessary), since most of them only run desktops and not servers for enterprise installations. Trying to convince them that Hammer should be included would take more effort than it's worth. Look instead to third parties like the "Access Grid" project to deliver the necessary tools for things not currently included in Slackware as standard features. That project is well defined, and already devoted to such services as would benefit from Hammer. So in the future, we might well see Hammer delivered by Access Grid.

I guess I (we) could chat with Christoph Willing about this.
EDIT: I just emailed him about this. I'll let you know what he has to say about it.

Shingoshi
My suggestion to continue this discussion, is first to attempt building the Hammer Filesystem on Dragonfly using Slackware build and packaging tools. That shouldn't be too difficult if it's simply not impossible. The best way to go about it would be to:
1.) Install the Slackware pkgtools and Gilbert Ashley's src2pkg on Dragonfly.
2.) Build any and all necessary components required by the Hammer Filesystem using our Slackware tools.

The installation of pkgtools on Dragonfly is simple and straightforward. Simply untar pkgtools in the root directory of the Dragonfly system. You can now install the src2pkg package using pkgtools. In fact, you can even reinstall pkgtools using the copy you installed by untarring it. That way, pkgtools will be fully recognized as installed, preventing any possible problems in the future. You might also check to make sure that our version of pkg-config doesn't conflict with Dragonfly's. Although, it really isn't required to install any of the new Slackware packages on Dragonfly. I would even think you wouldn't want to do that, for fear of corrupting the existing host. So simply build the packages on Dragonfly, and then install and test them on Slackware.

The result is that we should then have what's required to run Hammer on Slackware. We would then have what we can all refer to as,
SLACKHAMMER!!

That name just sounds awesome!
Shingoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shingoshi View Post
It would be helpful if some of you thanked me!
I'm not talking here about tooting my own horn for the sake of making my ego bigger. No, I'm talking about showing by the tally of votes garnered, just how many people believe the suggestion made is something they would like to see happen. Since I already advocate for the introduction of many technologies, it would help those responsible for the development of those technologies to see what level of support they could expect to see from this (Slackware) group in particular.

So if you as I do believe that Slackware is an excellent foundation for Enterprise Linux solutions, show it by voting with thumbs-up on this suggestion.

Thank you!
Shingoshi

Last edited by Shingoshi; 07-31-2009 at 08:21 PM.
 
Old 07-31-2009, 06:33 PM   #2
gankoji
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Wow.

Well first let me say that that name is fscking awesome! SLACKHAMMER... sweet.
So I'll need to install Dragonfly then to pull this off? I only run slackware64-current ATM, but I don't think it would take long to get up and running with Dragonfly. Have you already attempted building these packages and using them on slack? If you have any thing close to a success let me know and I'll jump right in.
 
Old 07-31-2009, 06:51 PM   #3
Shingoshi
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I was initially concerned about installing Dragonfly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gankoji View Post
Wow.

Well first let me say that that name is fscking awesome! SLACKHAMMER... sweet.
So I'll need to install Dragonfly then to pull this off? I only run slackware64-current ATM, but I don't think it would take long to get up and running with Dragonfly. Have you already attempted building these packages and using them on slack? If you have any thing close to a success let me know and I'll jump right in.
The thing is, I think most of the BSD's have filesystems which are incompatible with Linux. At least that used to be the case. If it's not anymore, that would be excellent. But I wasn't wanting to attempt installing Dragonfly on a system already configured for Slackware. I guess if I took the time, I really could figure out how to go about a dual-boot of Slackware and Dragonfly.

Once I have that done, I could lend all the help needed.

Shingoshi
 
Old 07-31-2009, 06:53 PM   #4
gankoji
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hmmmm. well since you run dragonfly and I've got slackware, why don't you try building the packages and I'll test them? It seems from what you said in your original post that the plan is to build the FS in slackware compatible form on the dragonfly machine, and then test them on a slackware rig. I've got the slackware rig, so we can do that if that's what you want to do.
 
Old 07-31-2009, 07:07 PM   #5
Shingoshi
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What I think is logistically required...

It would be better if a dual-boot scenario can be used. As that would simplify the development and testing of all the software created. Essentially, we will need to do the following:
1.) Format our disks for three distinct systems.
A.) Dragonfly
B.) Slackware
C.) SlackHammer

We need the third partition to test the SlackHammer filesystem. Our Slackware system can be configured with any filesystem of choice (mine has alway been xfs). But I think since the Linux kernel will be involved here, we may have to build a Linux kernel on Dragonfly, and then install that kernel over on SlackHammer. For those of you not familiar with Webmin, I would suggest installing it. It has all of the tools built-in to manage a project like this. Once we have a Linux kernel that has the SlackHammer filesystem included in it, Webmin can then be used to format the SlackHammer partition for us.

Once the SlackHammer filesystem is installed, we can then set about testing optimizations for it. But it seems we will never to create a SlackHammer kernel driver for Linux.

Shingoshi
 
Old 07-31-2009, 07:18 PM   #6
gankoji
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Okay, this is going to take some time and effort to setup. I can handle the tri-booting on one of my rigs, since I don't use it for much as it is. It's an older laptop, so hopefully hardware issues will be essentially null. I'll get to it this weekend and get back to you once I get going.
 
Old 07-31-2009, 07:36 PM   #7
Shingoshi
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Make sure you install Dragonfly FIRST!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gankoji View Post
Okay, this is going to take some time and effort to setup. I can handle the tri-booting on one of my rigs, since I don't use it for much as it is. It's an older laptop, so hopefully hardware issues will be essentially null. I'll get to it this weekend and get back to you once I get going.
As I think that will eliminate any problems with Dragonfly not knowing what to do with the occupied (incompatible filesystem) space you would have created for Slackware and SlackHammer. The one thing that is most important of all, is that you must format SlackHammer on the third partition using your Slackware system. That's the only way you'll know that SlackHammer is really working on Slackware. I may try this myself on this system, just to see if it can be done without having installed Dragonfly first. If it works, I'll join you in this development. But I really need to figure out how to participate in this anyway.

Thank you for your initiative!
Shingoshi

EDIT: Crap! I just remembered I have no free space on this system. It's already configured with RAID1 for the entire disk (I don't even have a separate /boot partition). So I can't do anything here until I get more disks. This system is my dedicated communications server. That way I know if everything else has "gone to hell in a handbasket", I still have this one always running.
 
Old 07-31-2009, 08:03 PM   #8
linus72
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Alright
I'm in

I got 4 partiions, avg 30gb each that need somestuff

So, I install slack, dragonfly and what?

I'm stiill rweading the posts
 
Old 07-31-2009, 08:44 PM   #9
Shingoshi
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If you have trouble following the steps outlined, please let me know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by linus72 View Post
Alright
I'm in

I got 4 partiions, avg 30gb each that need somestuff

So, I install slack, dragonfly and what?

I'm stiill rweading the posts
Thanks for joining in here!

Sometimes I think I'm clear, when others in fact have trouble understanding or following my stream of logic. So if this applies for anyone reading this thread, please detail how I can make things more clear for everyone else to follow.

Thank you!
Shingoshi
 
Old 07-31-2009, 09:37 PM   #10
gankoji
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Okay linus.

The plan so far is to get a box running partitioned for three separate OSes: Dragonfly, Slackware, and what we're calling SLACKHAMMER. SLACKHAMMER partitions are going to be where we do the tests on running the HAMMERFS with linux kernels. We figured having a dual boot + test bed would be best b/c it would allow for quick switching between platforms in case it's better to build w/ slackware or w/ dragonfly, etc.

@Shingoshi

The thing I'm still figuring out is, what exactly is going to need to be built/incorporated into the SLACKHAMMER system to implement the FS? As far as I can figure, we're pretty much going to have to build ourselves a kernel layer driver right? I'm going to have to do some research tonight I suppose.
 
Old 07-31-2009, 10:01 PM   #11
linus72
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Alright

Digging the dog

My slack DVD's pretty old 12.2
should I get a new slack?

and
Last time I installed dragonfly (I was really a newb then,) I remmeber it chop-sueyed the hd and made like 4 or 5 partitions

I'm assuming I can manually make sure it only goes in / ?

what version of Dfly too?
 
Old 07-31-2009, 10:14 PM   #12
gankoji
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as far as dragonfly goes, you'll have to ask shingoshi 'cuz this'll be my first time with it. 12.2 is the latest stable slack so it ought to be alright. I suppose we'll find out right? LOL.
 
Old 07-31-2009, 10:21 PM   #13
linus72
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alright
gonna start in the morning


simple plain ole 5 partition,swap, ext3 ok?

sda1 ext3
sda2 ext3
sda3 ext3
sda4 extended
sda5 swap

yes?
 
Old 07-31-2009, 10:24 PM   #14
linus72
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ok
I'm downloading the dragonfly dvd now

why do they call it a dvd if it's only 516mb?
 
Old 07-31-2009, 10:28 PM   #15
Shingoshi
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I've just emailed tallship...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gankoji View Post
as far as dragonfly goes, you'll have to ask shingoshi 'cuz this'll be my first time with it. 12.2 is the latest stable slack so it ought to be alright. I suppose we'll find out right? LOL.
I've invited him here to participate in this conversation. I'm guessing that with him already having Dragonfly installed, he's in the best position to guide the rest of us through this process of development. Let's see how long it takes for him to get here.

Anyone else can email him also...
Shingoshi
 
  


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