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Old 10-29-2013, 09:42 AM   #1
spudgunner
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Thumbs up I'm back after a break from Slackware: sharing thoughts and seeing whats new!


(So now that I'm done writing this, here's your warning that there's a wall of text ahead. If you don't care about my thoughts, skip down to the last section and the very least).

So from what I can figure out, it's been about a year since I've used Slackware, or even paid attention to it's development. So... what's going on guys?

First off, what have I been using for the past year if not Slackware?

I've been using Arch Linux during that time on my desktop, though I use my desktop primarily for gaming, so I didn't spend a huge amount of time with Arch. Installing it isn't too difficult, though I do enjoy having fully functional GUI desktop from the get-go (which Arch doesn't provide) and playing around with tons of config files after the install gets old. The dependency tracking is nice and solves the problem of Arch coming with barely anything (I'm more of a "include everything in the install because GB's are cheap" kind of guy), but I quickly became familiar with sudo pacman -Runs to completely remove who-knows-what the installation of a large package group pulled in. I think I used AUR once and it was pretty easy.
Systemd wasn't terribly hard to figure out, and I've just recently written an easy script to get my wifi working automatically on boot. Can't say that I fully understand it though, but I learned enough to stop, start, restart, enable, and disable services.
One interesting note, I did do a reinstall within the past few months to get encryption working, and because I installed Windows using GPT with UEFI. Apparently my motherboard doesn't implement UEFI properly or I'm doing something terribly wrong, because it only boots the last operating system that it booted before. I can switch OS priorities if I enter the boot configuration in the UEFI (but not the basic UEFI boot menu) and boot whatever I want, but then if I want to switch OS's I have to reconfigure boot priorities. I got tired of trying to figure it out and gave up.
I also acquired the BeagleBone Black on release day and installed Arch on that. Arch Linux ARM makes it super easy to install on the Beaglebone Black, and the minimal install really shines here. Although, again, I was making heavy use of sudo pacman -Runs to get rid of packages pulled in during the installation of software that I don't need anymore. I did manage to get a simple setup of OpenVPN running on the BeagleBone Black relatively painlessly with Arch, whereas I could get this operating correctly on OpenWRT for the life of me, and I spent a little while VPN'ing in to my home LAN from all over the place.

So why am I returning to Slackware if I figured my way around Arch?

I am returning to Slackware because I want something that's known for stability. I don't know a whole lot about Linux systems in general compared to most of you, and to be honest, I'm scared of one of those system-breaking updates that Arch is somewhat known for and I don't want to deal with either elaborate setup to avoid it or damage control when it happens. To Arch's benefit, none of those occurred during my time spent with it (but when Arch went systemd only, I opted for a reinstall rather that dealing with it). I also don't need super bleeding-edge software and I find that following Slackware -current tends to satisfy my needs for stability and keeping up-to-date.
I'll miss dependency resolution a little bit, but that's generally not as big an issue with Slackware as it comes with most the stuff you'll need. I'll also miss the extensive software repository that Arch has, but I think everything I use is available from Slackbuilds, so it's not a big issue.

Also, Slackware is a bad*** name.

So, seriously, what's new guys?

Yes, I realize I'm being a little lazy, but please cut me some slack. I did some quick searching, but I figured that people here could quickly point me to what's most relevant.

First thing, I'm aiming to wipe out Arch on my desktop and install Slackware x86_64 (and hope that UEFI works without too much trouble, but I'm not counting on it based on my experience with Arch) when 14.1 is released as stable.

Secondly, I'd like to get Slackware running on the BeagleBone Black. It is not a supported platform currently, I have little experience compiling kernels to begin with (though I have done it successfully a few times) and I have no experience compiling a kernel for an ARM platform on an x86 machine. This is gonna be interesting and probably take me a while, and if the ARM guys could send me in the right direction, I'm sure I could get the hang of it.

Finally, I few questions concerning the state of Slackware (x86_64) currently:

- How's Steam development coming? Last time I checked, some people had it working and some didn't, and lots of different problems where cropping up. Has it settled down at all?

- On a related note, what's the state of AMD drivers? I have a pair of 7970's and I've heard bad things concerning the open source drivers and those cards from Reddit. Are the recent closed source drivers working reasonably on x86_64?

- It looks like the Gnome Slackbuild project has kinda stalled (no release for Slackware 14.0, no idea what version of Gnome they have for 13.37, and their webpage is gone!) but Dropline Gnome looks like is well underway. I'm assuming people like it... just looking for thoughts and opinions for one I guess.

- Seeing as how Debian is debating on whether to use systemd or upstart in the future, what's the word on Slackware with regard this? When I left, people were kind of hostile towards systemd (although, to be fair, when I left I think lots of people in general didn't like it, not just Slackware users) and upstart wasn't really a big thing. I only ask because Debian is like the pinnacle of stability to some people, and if they're changing due to software depending on these new systems more and more, I figure it's something that Slackware folks are probably thinking about. If the answer is still a hard "NO!", I'm cool with that, I'm just curious.

- Any other huge Slackware news that I should be aware of?

Thanks guys!
 
Old 10-29-2013, 10:03 AM   #2
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudgunner View Post
- How's Steam development coming? Last time I checked, some people had it working and some didn't, and lots of different problems where cropping up. Has it settled down at all?
Steam works fine here with the package from AlienBob. Of course you will have to go multilib, but this is exceptionally easy when using the slackpkg+ plugin.
Quote:
- On a related note, what's the state of AMD drivers? I have a pair of 7970's and I've heard bad things concerning the open source drivers and those cards from Reddit. Are the recent closed source drivers working reasonably on x86_64?
The 7970 will not run sufficiently (for gaming) with the open drivers, so you will have to use the closed driver. The latest beta should run with the 3.10 kernel and Xserver 1.14 without problems.
Quote:
- Seeing as how Debian is debating on whether to use systemd or upstart in the future, what's the word on Slackware with regard this? When I left, people were kind of hostile towards systemd (although, to be fair, when I left I think lots of people in general didn't like it, not just Slackware users) and upstart wasn't really a big thing. I only ask because Debian is like the pinnacle of stability to some people, and if they're changing due to software depending on these new systems more and more, I figure it's something that Slackware folks are probably thinking about. If the answer is still a hard "NO!", I'm cool with that, I'm just curious.
Just do a search in the Slackware forum, there was a thread about that not long ago.

Can't comment on the rest, not a Gnome user.

Quote:
- Any other huge Slackware news that I should be aware of?
Slackware 14.1 is RC3 now and should be released soon, as always a nice and stable system.
 
Old 10-29-2013, 12:18 PM   #3
Stuferus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudgunner View Post
- Seeing as how Debian is debating on whether to use systemd or upstart in the future, what's the word on Slackware with regard this? When I left, people were kind of hostile towards systemd (although, to be fair, when I left I think lots of people in general didn't like it, not just Slackware users) and upstart wasn't really a big thing. I only ask because Debian is like the pinnacle of stability to some people, and if they're changing due to software depending on these new systems more and more, I figure it's something that Slackware folks are probably thinking about. If the answer is still a hard "NO!", I'm cool with that, I'm just curious.
well at least i am still hostile with upstart and systemd

i think sysvinit works fine and will allways work fine. i like the unix like start.. the bashscript way of startings things i think is the optimal thing to do.

i think there are two different "linux" out there.. everything useing systemd/upstart (gnu/linux) and slackware (linux)

Last edited by Stuferus; 10-29-2013 at 12:19 PM.
 
Old 10-29-2013, 12:28 PM   #4
chess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudgunner View Post
It looks like the Gnome Slackbuild project has kinda stalled (no release for Slackware 14.0, no idea what version of Gnome they have for 13.37, and their webpage is gone!) but Dropline Gnome looks like is well underway. I'm assuming people like it... just looking for thoughts and opinions for one I guess.
You can check out the MATE SlackBuild project that Willy Sudiarto Raharjo and I are working on. Binary packages are available for 14.0 and will be for 14.1 once it's released. MATE is a fork of the old GNOME 2.x desktop environment started by the Linux Mint folks.

http://mateslackbuilds.github.io/
 
Old 10-29-2013, 12:43 PM   #5
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuferus View Post
i think there are two different "linux" out there.. everything useing systemd/upstart (gnu/linux) and slackware (linux)
I would rather go for three different linux versions: The systemd/CoreOS fraction, Ubuntu and dervatives and the rather conservative distros, like Debian and Slackware.
And you have the frameworks, like Gentoo, that offer you different options.
 
Old 10-29-2013, 02:30 PM   #6
kikinovak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
I would rather go for three different linux versions: The systemd/CoreOS fraction, Ubuntu and dervatives and the rather conservative distros, like Debian and Slackware.
And you have the frameworks, like Gentoo, that offer you different options.
Looks like Debian 8.0 "Jesse" will be a member of the systemd fraction.
 
Old 10-29-2013, 03:12 PM   #7
dugan
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Quote:
- Any other huge Slackware news that I should be aware of?
slackpkg+ is now the recommended way to keep your system up to date.

Slackware 14.1 will use GRUB2 for UEFI boot.

And as for GNOME for Slackware: Dropline GNOME and MateSlackBuilds are both active.

Last edited by dugan; 10-29-2013 at 03:21 PM.
 
Old 10-29-2013, 04:23 PM   #8
mattallmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuferus View Post
i think sysvinit works fine and will allways work fine. i like the unix like start.. the bashscript way of startings things i think is the optimal thing to do.
Just FYI, Slackware uses the BSD-style version of init, not SysV.

Last edited by mattallmill; 10-29-2013 at 04:28 PM.
 
Old 10-29-2013, 05:03 PM   #9
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikinovak View Post
Looks like Debian 8.0 "Jesse" will be a member of the systemd fraction.
That is not sure at all, there has to be a decision from the Tech Committee first if there will be a switch to Upstart or systemd (I hope that they will use Upstart) and even then the switch will be not in Jessie but at the earliest in Jessie+1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattallmill
Just FYI, Slackware uses the BSD-style version of init, not SysV.
Just nitpicking, Slackware uses SystemV init with BSD style scripts.
 
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:48 PM   #10
ReaperX7
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Systemd is just a fad. It'll pass soon enough after people get tired of the endless BS with it, and Linus get's enraged enough to drop udev out of the kernel if they keep up with their trends of terrible coding.

OpenRC works far better and it, Upstart, runit, and sysvinit all use far less resources and aren't rammed down our throats. Patrick has stated he intends to stick to the BSD-stylized SysVInit design.

Truth be told, if Patrick did have no choice but to switch to a different init system from BSD-SysV, I'd vote for OpenRC long before I'd even THINK about systemd.

I'd rather have a init system that is properly documented, works without bloatware and endless dependencies, and hijacks the system for it's own nefarious purposes.

Last edited by ReaperX7; 10-29-2013 at 05:53 PM.
 
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:26 PM   #11
Stuferus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
I would rather go for three different linux versions: The systemd/CoreOS fraction, Ubuntu and dervatives and the rather conservative distros, like Debian and Slackware.
And you have the frameworks, like Gentoo, that offer you different options.
ok gentoo is at the moment "linux" too.. debian is leaving sysv behind so its "gnu/linux" for me now..

i really dont understand why people must change what works.. i learnt "never touch a running system".. oh well.. (manchmal helfen halt keine pillen )
 
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:27 PM   #12
Stuferus
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@ReaperX7

does it work with bashscripts like now? if not i want to stay sysv for ever!
 
Old 10-29-2013, 07:39 PM   #13
azinulbizar
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Originally Posted by Stuferus View Post
ok gentoo is at the moment "linux" too.. debian is leaving sysv behind so its "gnu/linux" for me now..

i really dont understand why people must change what works.. i learnt "never touch a running system".. oh well.. (manchmal helfen halt keine pillen )
stop any pills what? what's manchmal helfen?
 
Old 10-29-2013, 07:45 PM   #14
Richard Cranium
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I think it's "Sometimes help stops no pills"
 
Old 10-29-2013, 07:47 PM   #15
volkerdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
Systemd is just a fad. It'll pass soon enough after people get tired of the endless BS with it, and Linus get's enraged enough to drop udev out of the kernel if they keep up with their trends of terrible coding.
Dream on. If systemd is not here to stay, I'll at least bet that whatever would replace it would be something you would like less.

Quote:
OpenRC works far better and it, Upstart, runit, and sysvinit all use far less resources and aren't rammed down our throats.
Since I can't imagine any future scenario where it's no longer possible to use sysvinit, but OpenRC works, it is doubtful that OpenRC will ever be a solution here.

Quote:
Patrick has stated he intends to stick to the BSD-stylized SysVInit design.
[[citation needed]]

Quote:
Truth be told, if Patrick did have no choice but to switch to a different init system from BSD-SysV, I'd vote for OpenRC long before I'd even THINK about systemd.
If that happens, the choice will be whatever will be likely to cause the least future trouble, such as requiring yet-another init change due to a collapse of support for the current choice. Don't see that ever being OpenRC, sorry.

Quote:
I'd rather have a init system that is properly documented, works without bloatware and endless dependencies, and hijacks the system for it's own nefarious purposes.
Yeah, me too.

Let's not have another one of those threads, OK? Save it for when we switch to systemd.
 
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