For learning purposes and tinkering: Slackware/Gentoo? (8 m.o newbie)
 

Hi all,


Background: I am a newcomer to computing, and also to linux. My knowledge of computers/computing prior to 8 months ago was, I would say, worse than average. At that point I was introduced to the idea of free software and its implications and downloaded Ubuntu 9.10 and have recently been using 10.04.
In spite of the fact that I have enjoyed Ubuntu greatly, I my interest in learning Linux is for the learning itself, and the Free Software philosophy, not for any particular software/usability.

Situation: At this point, I am ready to try another distro (and yes I am sure down the line I will try more) as the learning curve for Ubuntu has flattened out and I dont feel the need to learn as much as I did at first.

Question: If you were to chose, which distro, between Gentoo and Slackware, would give me the greatest chance to learn, configure, tinker, knock down, build back up, and be a long term learning tool etc? And Why?


Note: My admin skills are not great but I learn quickly. So far, I have mainly messed with Apparmor, configuring firefox, privoxy, conky, wicd-curses, etc. I have no fear of the CLI, but I am not experienced. And I have no background in programming, though I have started to learn C.

Note1: While I have never taken the time to configure Slackware, I have practiced several installs and I have no fear of text based install/partition etc.

Note2: Down the line I would like to experiment with *BSD and so perhaps thought that Gentoo, with its portage, might be helpful.

Edit1(addition): One question, clearly Slackware is very stable as a community and I have heard of "infighting/instability" with Gentoo, how did that play out and how did it impact the distro? Is there good Gentoo Documentation like I have heard about for Slack/Arch etc?

do both
or Slackware

Gentoo has a significant learning curve. I think it would make more sense to get familiar with Slackware first *then* try Gentoo.
Slackware is an excellent choice, it is what I prefer and run. Prior to attempting Slackware ensure that you read all of the support documentation available on the CDs/DVD. Also, read the slackbook, linked in my signature.
Have fun! :)

In my personal experience the Gentoo learning curve was too steep for me to get into. Its something I'd like to have another shot at, but not for a bit. I couldn't get it to install following the guide step by step.

Slackware on the other hand still provided an ample learning curve, but has a beautiful simplicity about it. I got it installed the first night and am still configuring away to no end :)

Have fun

I would say give Slackware a shot and if you feel like you aren't learning anything or if you feel like you reach a plateau, then move on. The good thing about Slackware is that it's complete and ready to go in minutes vs. having to compile the whole system which will takes hours to days depending on your machine. You will learn plenty about compiling using Slackware so that later adventures in building your own system such as Gentoo or LFS will be more easily absorbed. Of course, I'm basically saying what I personally did, so my answer is naturally biased. Most importantly, HAVE F UN!

Also Arch is a good system where you'll learn a lot, it's a lot like Slack from an admin point of view, but it is definitely harder to get going... Probably somewhere between Slack and Gentoo (admittedly I've never used Gentoo).

Agreed. Arch is a good learning experience albeit harder to get going than Slackware. I've run Arch 3-4 times, but, have settled on Slackware as my primary OS. I've tried Gentoo before (crash and burn).
Debian may be a good choice for the OP as Ubuntu is based on Debian. I'm a long time FreeBSD user. The OP may find that interesting. The FreeBSD installer (sysinstall) is very Slack-like. :)

Good advice here above. I wanted to add I like the volume of packages a full install gives you with Slackware. When learning and getting familiar with Linux it is nice to see some of the software solutions out there. I agree with the above statements try a bunch. I am absolutely slanted with Slack but have fun.

Many thanks to all of you.

Hitest, while just getting used to Linux I feel, from a learning-tree standpoint, it might not be best to launch into xBSD (might you agree?). Obviously you are a seasoned user, can I ask what about Gentoo yielded a crash/burn? Was it some admin task that was difficult or was it native to the install etc?

Basically, I plan to keep running Ubuntu as a backup, but I am looking for something on which to learn/tinker, while being usable (no LFS etc project just yet).

my experience with Gentoo and a couple derivatives; Calculate Linux and Sabayon Linux, was very similar to other source-based distro's I've tried including SourceMage and Lunar Linux.

Basically, it takes a long time to initially compile the system, then periodically you gotta rebuild the whole system, and sometimes it gets caught in dependency loop or something similar.

with Slackware and ARCH, you can do both, binary and source packages, especially via sbopkg.
I favor Slackware because it's very simple, has an eternal identity, and making packages in Slackware is very simple compared to others.

source distro's aren't bad or anything, it's a time-consuming hobby though compared to others
and if the system breaks, then a reinstall is that much longer.

but, pre-assembled derivatives like Calculate and Sabayon are great starters for Gentoo

Hello Ubunoob001,

Slackware was my first distro and I've learned much with it. Last year I gave Gentoo a shot and about 2 month ago I tried Arch.
The great advantage of Gentoo and Arch is their excellent documentation. I agree with hitest that reading the documentation is very valuable and necessary as well. But due to my experience it is much easier to quickly find an helpul manual applied to a certain topic when looking at the Arch or Gentoo documentations.
Otherwise, when looking for an explanation of a topic which is not related to a specific distro, all of the mentioned distros provide the appropriate manual.
The slackbook doesn't cover any of the modern concepts in Linux (e.g. udev or hal), one can just as well read the manpages instead of the slackbook.
Slackwares big advantage is that if you perform a full install, in most cases everything will work out of the box.
For learning purposes I'll recommend to dualboot Slackware and one of the other mentioned distros. I found it a great benefit to compare how different distros work.

Markus

That's the point I was trying to make as well. Building from source is definitely something you want to do if knowledge is what you are after, but because compiling an entire system from scratch is so time consuming, and there is just a TON of downtime while a build is going, you do a lot of waiting compared to the amount of time you are doing things which lead to learning. With both Slackware and Arch there will be much building from scratch because that's one of the chief ways of adding software to the base system (more so in Slackware). It's really a cost/benefit ratio in my opinion. Also the bleeding edge nature of Arch might make it hard to tell if the repositories are broken temporarily compared to Slackware, where even -current is going to be reasonably stable MOST ;) of the time. Having said that, something tells me the recent updates in -current make that statement a little less true at the moment.

I just really think Slackware (stable) is a great distro for learning because you are forced to learn a lot of basics just to function, but once you've gotten the hang of those basics then the distro itself stays out of the way and lets you poke and prod to your heart's content with a reasonable amount of confidence that you'll be able to fix what you break, which ultimately is probably the best teacher there is.

From there, Arch and Gentoo will be much more accessible I would think.

no, this is not the case. Once my Gentoo system was up and running all updates (compiling) is running in the background while I can use the system for my normal work. Moreover there are few packages which take more than some minutes to compile (e.g. openoffice about 5 hours on my laptop). I don't have any downtime with Gentoo due to updates.

Markus

Linus/Others, I suppose one question question re: Slackware is that it seems that the Gentoo people make it seem as though there is a very minimal Gentoo install. And that then there are a huge number of options regarding packages etc to install to create a workable system. Whereas on the surface, Slackware [full] seems to create a full system that requires configuration but not "design".
1. It seems like this minimal+your design in Gentoo would be better for learning design whereas the full+configure in Slackware seems to be better for learning maintenance/daily admin. Thoughts?
2. This is probably my own error and something I can learn in Ubuntu, but it seem that by default Ubuntu installs config files/apps/etc in SO many different places with little consistency that it makes it hard to keep things clean. Do you find that either of these Distros are in anyway by-default "cleaner".

How long was it till you got up and running though and what kind of hardware were you dealing with? I was speaking from the time I power on the machine with the intent to install to the time I'm working in a full system. I'm by no means speaking ill of Gentoo. Just that it's a deeper investment in time.

From my personal experience I did not give Gentoo the needed time to fully use the system. I failed. That is not a condemnation of Gentoo, rather a reflection of my own inability. Gentoo is more difficult to use than Slackware. If you want something more difficult than Slackware try Arch or FreeBSD. You are obviously curious and interested in learning more about GNU/Linux. When you are prepared Slackware will show you what a solid OS looks like. Slackware is more difficult to use than Ubuntu, but, it is a good stepping stone for you. If you need help setting up Slackware we will be happy to help you. :)