Bootable USB Device with USB-ZIP BIOS
 

Hi,

Previously I asked about the actual creations of boot disk with USB which I intend to write what obstacles I encountered during the creation of bootable execution image and copying of the image onto the USB key [using USB Installer for Slackware script provided by Hameleers] -- I've already overcome these steps by the way. unfortunately, it turns out that I have a bigger problem to overcome first and that is to get the USB device (OCZ Diesel 4GB) to be recognized by the BIOS.

I used Mr. Hameleers' script to create a bootable image along with Slackware CD which were copied onto the USB device accordingly (there is nothing wrong with the scripts by the way). His USB bootable installer creates two partitions, one on partition "1" execution bootable files (i.e. /dev/sda1) and the other on partition "2" (i.e. /dev/sda2), the regular Slackware DVD/CD data. However, what I found out was that my motherboard's BIOS (ASUS P4S333, BIOS AWARD) only has support for "USB-ZIP" but not "USB-HDD" -- ARGH!

Then a gentleman (danielldaniell) pointed out to me that a document, /usr/doc/syslinux-3.52/README.usbkey, offers some explanation of my situation. So I read about the geometry of ZIP drives for USB-ZIP option and how they are viewed in such BIOS'. The description states that the partition must have 64 head and 32 sector in addition to having the linux bootable files on a single partition "4." So I made an endeavor to just do that (fdisk -C2048 -H64 -S32 /dev/sda) and created the "bootable" partition on 4 (i.e. /dev/sda4) and data on 2 (i.e. /dev/sda2) -- the data partition doesn't matter where it sits, partition 1, 2, or 3. The partition 4, /dev/sda4, was formatted with mkdosfs -F16 (vfat) and /dev/sda2 with mke2fs (ext2). Let me just add that Hamelee's USB installer script by default creates the bootable partition on "1" (i.e. /dev/sda1) and data on "2" (/dev/sda2). By the way, allow me to extend my gratitude to Mr. Hameleers for his hard work on this matter (and also recent Slackware 64-bit port).

I have installed the bootable system images, once on partition 1 (script's default) and also on 4 (my modified version for address USB-ZIP concern) but with neither of the settings I was able to boot from the USB key. I even forgo of Slackware data partition and simply made a single bootable partition with system image on partition 4 (i.e. /dev/sda4) with 64(header)/32(sector) geometry -- no result. Then I changed the cylinder numbers on the bootable partition from 2048 to 1024 (fdisk -C1024 -H64 -S32...) assuming that was the culprit; still a blank page when I boot with USB.

I just don't know what else I am left to do. My question is, for USB-ZIP, what geometry size I need to set my bootable partition on to have it boot from USB?

Sincerely,

You might try to format the stick as a "superfloppy" without any partitions. This has worked for me with a similar BIOS which doesn't support booting from USB-HD.

Something like this, assuming /dev/sdc is the stick:

mkdosfs -IF32 /dev/sdc

mount /dev/sdc /mnt/tmp

mkdir /mnt/tmp/syslinux

cp /boot/initrd.gz /mnt/tmp/syslinux
cp /boot/vmlinuz /mnt/tmp/syslinux

kedit /mnt/tmp/syslinux/syslinux.cfg

Add:
default vmlinuz initrd=initrd.gz

umount /mnt/tmp

syslinux /dev/sdc

Read more at:
http://linuxconfig.dyndns.org/lazy/L.../Boot/Syslinux

Good luck!

Hello,

Your 4th partition isn't going to help you if your bios doesn't know what to do with the 1st.

There are two ways around that that I can think of.
The sure bet would be to get the Super Grub CD, if you can burn and boot from CD.
The other that I'm 90% sure about would be to write a fragment of your 4th partition to your 1st with:

I've never tried that on usb, so you might want to research it and wait for a guru to come along and confirm it. I'm very tired right now and may have missed a detail in your post, but I think this could give you a direction to look in.

I think you may need to use the tool called 'makebootfat' -it can create a bootable drive for any (or all) of the formats: USB-HD, USB-ZIP and USB-FD

I tried the suggested link but I get "Boot error" which is an improvement from a blank page before. Thank you for your suggestion though.

I am trying to play around with the suggested tool, makebootfat, which supposedly should address my needs. However, I'm stuck in feeding all the options it requires. First, what sort of MBR is it asking (mbr.bin)? Is it the USB stick's or the hard drive? Second, how can I produce ldlinux.bss? When `syslinux' is run on the USB drive (i.e. /dev/sda), it only outputs syslinux.cfg, ldlinux.sys. The `initrd.img' is the same as initrd.gz created by the `mkinitrd', right? Do I need to look out for any flag when I run mkinitrd? This is getting a bit complicated...

Sincerely,

I forgot to mention that you also need a bootloader in the MBR, IIRC..

cat /usr/lib/syslinux/mbr.bin > /dev/sdc

or

http://www.slackware.com/~alien/slackbuilds/ms-sys/pkg/

installpkg ms-sys-2.1.2-i486-1.tgz

ms-sys --mbr95b /dev/sdc

Still not having a bootable USB. Let me go through the steps one by one:

1) Apparently after following the tutorial you offered, the partition table would look something like the following:

So just to be sure, I wipe everything clean to start from the scratch (deleting all four partitions).


2) Then run `mkdosfs' (-I creates a "superfloppy" on the USB):

`fdisk' reports the following:


3) Continuing with the procedure:

* I am creating my initrd with the following options (my /lib/module is 2.6.27.7-custom by the way) :

I have "JFS" on all my filesystems including the root parition. Do I need to apply any other flag (-f or -r) with `mkinitrd'? Continuing with the procedure:


4) Working with `makebootfat' recommended by gnashley, I realized that the `syslinux' bootloader package installed on ALL slackwares (12.0 - current (32/64)), version "3.52" is utilized which is at least a few year-old package. So I grabbed the newest version of Syslinux (3.82) from kernel.org website.

As a side Note: Interestingly, the old document that I had read before (/usr/doc/syslinux-3.52/README.usbkey) mentioned of use of `mkdiskimage' which wasn't working properly but apparently the newer version does comply to its contracted obligation (i.e. actually creating the table on partition 4). The newer version (syslinux-3.82) also provides several other images, i.e. syslinux-3.82/core/ldlinux.bss | ldlinux.sys and syslinux-3.82/mbr/mbr.bin). But I digress.

Using the 3.82 rather than 3.52. Also using ms-sys 2.1.3 (available on 12.1/2) rather than 2.1.2 (available for 12.0):

* There are other MBR flags, mbr, mbrdos, mbrsyslinux...

And the `fdisk':


Upon the reboot, once USB-ZIP is selected in BIOS, I receive the following message:

And trust me when I say, it keeps its promise -- it does reboot :)

Of course, there is no way I can mount the USB now because I don't know what filesystem should I mounted with (looking at the fdisk -l doesn't help). Any idea why this is not working?

P.S. I'm going to write about `makebootfat' steps later on.

ms-sys is douing much the same as using syslinux -that is, it is creating an MBR which makes the drive appear as a hard drive. If you use mkdosfs, then it makes the drive appear as a floppy drive. This is why you may need makebootfat -it can write the MBR so that it appears to be a bootable zip drive. To be honest, I do not know exactly what the difference is -I mean I don't know what the ZIP drive 'presents' to make the BIOS understand that it is a zip drive. As an aside, most bootable cdrom's also appear as a 'super-floppy' -that means there is no partition table at all -the first data on the disk is boot code and the data is located in the following sectors.

Edit:
I was just reading the syslinux document you linked to. It looks to me like you need to create *only* partition 4. If you create 1,2 or 3 then it will not appear as a zip drive. This means that all your data and system would need to go in the that single partition.

Edit:
I just found a great resource for understanding disk structures, starting here:
http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/index.html

Actually, the "-I" switch makes it appear as a superfloppy but yes, you are right in that context. I wonder if I should try USB-FDD in the BIOS setting then? Alright, I just did and "PRESS A KEY TO REBOOT" message came up again.

`makebootfat' should supposedly accomplish this task but the man page is vague regarding the flags. Not vague per se, more of being non-descriptive for an uninformed user like me. As I describe in the next reply, when I feed the tool with "-Z" flag, which incidentally should create a proper bootable USB disk for USB-ZIP devices, that is, according to the man page, "If possible force the ZIP-Disk compatibility. It sets a geometry of 32 sectors and 64 heads. It also uses the 4'th partition entry in the partition table. It's required to boot also in USB-ZIP mode," it does not just do that -- no partition "4" and no proper header and sector configuration.

Indeed, that's the same document I was offered to by some other user on this forum which led me to try `mkdiskimage' but unfortunately, the version supplied with Slackware was old enough that didn't really comply with the command line flags instructed in the document.

After downloading the latest release of Syslinux (3.82), I ran the script (`mkdiskimage' is actually a Perl script) with the following flags (I deleted all the previously created partitions before starting these steps):

(I tried to place the command lines in "code" blocks but the Firefox displays them with horizontal scroller bar. That's why I'm using a "quote" block)

Which is an equivalent of the following command:

You could also assign "0" instead of "1024" to determine the size of the cylinder but let's go with the recommended 1024 for now.

What do you know, it really did create a boot-set flag, FAT16 on partition 4. Now, I do not know whether I should have created FAT32 with "-F" flag but oh well. Running the previously suggested steps to have a `syslinux' bootloader:

Checking to see everything's there (notice /sda4):


After another boot from USB, once again I get "PRESS A KEY TO REBOOT". Next, I'll write about `makebootfat' (I'm down with a flu and pills have made me extremely lethargic and soporific, so I might as well inscribe it tomorrow but not for now). Meanwhile, if anyone sees a discrepancy or has a suggestion, please let me know.

P.S. Loved the line by line Lilo assembly code examination of the linked tutorial on MBR and boot records you shared. Thank you. I got to start mass-bookmarking these links before I lose them. Perhaps, it is one of my motivations to post everything here just for my own future reference if I manage to get something working out of all this.

As promised, I'm going to share step by step the process I undertook to invoke `makebootfat' program to create a bootable USB device.

Before running `makebootfat', I wipe the partitions off of the USB device:

I dump the description of those makebootfat flags I'll be using to invoke the tool below:



And finally run makebootfat 1.4 but since it depends on `syslinux' and I didn't have a good run with Slackware's syslinux package, I installed the the newest version, 3.82.

Oh, look, not only it didn't create it on the partition 4, neither the head and sector match the advertised obligation mentioned in "-Z" flag description.

Time to reboot and... "PRESS A KEY TO REBOOT" message once again. Examining the content of the USB key:

So let me change that to "sda1" and reboot... "PRESS A KEY TO REBOOT" message pops once again. *sigh*

Can any of you gurus tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Sincerely,

Have a look here:
http://advancemame.sourceforge.net/doc-makebootfat.html

Excerpt:
7 Multi Standard USB Booting
The BIOS USB boot support is generally differentiated in three categories: USB-HDD, USB-FDD and USB-ZIP.

The USB-HDD (Hard Disk Drive) standard is the preferred choice and it requires the presence of a partition table in the first sector of the disk. You can create this type of disk using the -m option.

The USB-FDD (Floppy Disk Drive) standard requires the presence of a filesystem starting from the first sector of the disk without a partition table. You can create this type of disk without using the -m option.

The USB-ZIP (ZIP Drive) standard requires the presence of a device with a very specific geometry. Specifically, it requires a geometry with 32 sectors and 64 heads. It also requires the presence of a partition table with only a bootable partition in the fourth entry. You can create this type of disk using the -m and -Z option.

Generally these standards are incompatible, but using the -m, -F and -Z options you can create a disk compatible with all of them.

To use the -F option, the MBR image specified must follow the constrains:
It must start with a standard FAT 3 bytes jump instruction.
It must have the bytes from address 3 to 89 (included) unused.

And example of such image is in the `mbrfat.bin' file.

For example to create a syslinux image:
makebootfat -o usb \
-Y \
-Z \
-b ldlinux.bss -m mbrfat.bin -F \
-c ldlinux.sys -c syslinux.cfg \
-c linux -c initrd.img \
image

# End of excerpt

The way I read it, to create a USB-ZIP-only device, you'd leave out the -m option and use the -Z option alone. But the multi-standard device may give the best chance of being usable. mbr.bin is a hard-disk MBR. mbrfat.bin appears to be a super-floppy MBR. A regular floppy device would not use the -m option at all.

The fact that the sectors and heads are not being correctly created is probably due to the 4GB size of your device (1GB drive seems to work most reliably). You may have to manually create the device using the normal tools in order to set the needed geometry. Or, use the above method and then use fdisk or sfdisk to adjust the geometry to the correct values.

Also see here:
http://puppylinux.com/news/news400a5-400a7.htm
Excerpt:
'ComboFormat' added to Universal Installer
March 3rd, 2008

I have a PC that is extremely fussy about what USB stick will boot on it. The BIOS setup has USB-FLOPPY, USB-HDD and USB-ZIP settings but I can only get the last one to work, and even that is very fussy. I can't get 1GB and larger sticks to boot, so I experimented with a combination of small FAT16 partition and a ext2 partition to fill the rest of the drive. This works, with the USB-ZIP setting.

I couldn't think of any better name, so I named this dual-partition setup "ComboFormat" and have added this to the Universal Installer.

Note that this is very much under development. JustGreg is doing a lot of work getting USB drives to boot. The "ComboFormat" solution that I have devised so far is not a universal solution, as it won't boot on my Classmate laptop (another extremely fussy PC for USB booting).

I appreciate you following up by posting what you are trying.

Booting from the USB constructed by the flags above:


Well, that's a new one. I tried to boot with either USB-FDD and USB-ZIP options selected in the BIOS, same result. Interestingly, as I was checking the POST message, I realized that the BIOS is reporting the following:

"Diesel" is my OCZ 4GB USB drive so it's being recognized in the BIOS boot phase.


But that's exactly what the man page suggest, that is, to include both -Z and -m (highlighted above in the excerpt). But allow me to run `makebootfat' without -m option:

Of course, I can't mount it now but booting from this particular USB result in:

Not so encouraging.


I might just do that. I'll try different settings and keep updating this reply. Ok reverting back to -m -F, and -Z option, then adjusting the geometry of the USB partitions accordingly. Alright, I can change the geometry of the device using fdisk but how can I change the partition table? Wasn't `makebootfat' responsible for all that? *sigh*

"how can I change the partition table?" Use the advanced features of fdisk to reset the geometry, then delete the existing partitions. Create a new partition giving "4" as the number to use. Let is span the whole device. Set the bootable flag for the new partition.
Again, the 4GB size is probably a problem. To work around it, you could create a smaller file (504MB may be the ideal size). Then use losetup to partition it and do the other operations. Then use dd or cat to write the whole thing to the raw device. This will ensure the smaller size.

I'm sure you are having lots of fun with all this -even if losing a bit of hair!

Creating a USB boot disk with "-m -Z, and -F" options:

Writing the USB image onto the hard drive (the BLOCK count didn't do 1GB for some reason and it takes an hour to read and 2 hours to write, so I was a bit lazy to correct the mistake so rather read 4GB, oh well. I'm sure I'll regret it later on). And I entirely forgotten about creating and mounting partition on a loop device -- maybe next try:

Changing the USB device geometry (I wanted to set "-C1024" but I had read 4GB from the USB already, argh!):


Writing the image back from the hard drive onto the USB:


Yup, 4 hrs 10 mins on USB 1.1 and the results...


Actually I've given up all hopes a while back, so my lowered expectation has kept my sanity so far.