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Old 03-31-2016, 05:22 PM   #16
ReaperX7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archfan View Post
We all know that Debian is overengineered FOSS crap designed to cause you as much grey hair as possible. Glad they didn't merge.
Overengineered? No and yes. Debian's actually suffering from Too Big Syndrome as well as trying to push Stallmanism out upon it's users. Too big to fail, and when they fail, the problems of which are even bigger.
 
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Old 03-31-2016, 05:47 PM   #17
ChuangTzu
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I think things like this are disturbing them as well:

http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/...n-windows.html
 
Old 03-31-2016, 06:32 PM   #18
archfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
I think things like this are disturbing them as well:

http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/...n-windows.html
I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up buying Canonical (and Red Hat) altogether. It's not like they can't afford it.
 
Old 03-31-2016, 07:12 PM   #19
orbea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
as well as trying to push Stallmanism out upon it's users.
Nope, the fsf does not even endorse debian and claiming debian is trying to push RMS's views is bullshit.

Quote:
Debian's Social Contract states the goal of making Debian entirely free software, and Debian conscientiously keeps nonfree software out of the official Debian system. However, Debian also provides a repository of nonfree software. According to the project, this software is “not part of the Debian system,” but the repository is hosted on many of the project's main servers, and people can readily find these nonfree packages by browsing Debian's online package database and its wiki.

There is also a “contrib” repository; its packages are free, but some of them exist to load separately distributed proprietary programs. This too is not thoroughly separated from the main Debian distribution.

Previous releases of Debian included nonfree blobs with Linux, the kernel. With the release of Debian 6.0 (“squeeze”) in February 2011, these blobs have been moved out of the main distribution to separate packages in the nonfree repository. However, the problem partly remains: the installer in some cases recommends these nonfree firmware files for the peripherals on the machine.
https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.en.html
 
Old 04-01-2016, 12:41 AM   #20
ReaperX7
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I'm going to have to disagree orbea. Debian has pushed non-free software into it's own repository, but equally they have excluded it by default from the main branch repository. But look at how many projects have been Debianized for their own distribution. IceWeasel for one, is a prime example of this. Firefox is offered, but again it's excluded in it's own way.
 
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:58 AM   #21
kikinovak
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Red Hat is mainly driven by market share, Debian by bureaucracy, and Slackware by common sense.
 
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Old 04-01-2016, 02:25 AM   #22
Didier Spaier
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It thought that Slackware was driven by Patrick Volkerding? Maybe both then.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 04-01-2016 at 02:28 AM.
 
Old 04-01-2016, 02:35 AM   #23
Skaendo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
But look at how many projects have been Debianized for their own distribution. IceWeasel for one, is a prime example of this. Firefox is offered, but again it's excluded in it's own way.
I have heard that Deabian is ditching Iceweasel and going to start shipping just Firefox.

I am a ex-long time user of Debian, (from 2.2 until 7.5) and nothing from that camp surprises me. It is over-engineered and a gigantic project that has outdated itself. I mean seriously, look at the number of packages that that camp needs to maintain, and they are far behind on a lot of it.

Once touted as "The Universal Distro", has become nothing more than just another RedHat distro.

I was feeling nostalgic about a year ago and downloaded 8.x and installed it on my test rig, here is what I came up with:

https://i.imgur.com/A7uOJcB.png
https://i.imgur.com/6CD2acb.png

That was on an Intel/Intel Dell. Not to mention that only 1 in 10 times I ever seen a login screen, most of the time it was just a black screen so I just entered my password and with a little luck it worked.

Makes me wish that I had switched to Slackware a long time ago.
 
Old 04-01-2016, 02:39 AM   #24
ReaperX7
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Sane leaders make sane decisions when they aren't marred by bureaucracy and profit margins based on greed.

My grandfather told me once when I started working, "When you do what you love doing, money matters little, and if you keep doing what you love, the money will come anyway."

I see why Slackware has been sustained so well for so long.
 
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:02 AM   #25
schmatzler
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I wish I could drop Debian and use Slackware everywhere. But I can't

The switch to Jessie made my life so much worse. I maintain a virtual server with Debian since 2009, whenever I upgraded to the latest release I only had to run rcconf, set up the services I wanted for the machine and I was done. Good old sysvinit doing its job.

Starting with Jessie they included systemd and it's just an unintuitive pain to manage services. systemctl and journalctl are not userfriendly to handle, on one occasion the binary log of systemd just broke of no reason. That caused a chain reaction and made fail2ban shut down, which is a nightmare to happen, since that's supposed to protect the machine.

Now I can't trust my own webserver to run 365 days without a problem anymore. Such a mess would never have happened with Slackware.

A switch isn't easy, because of monetary reasons, though. Here in Germany I rely on hosteurope for my VPS. They only offer Ubuntu, CentOS and Debian. Guess what, Debian is the least terrible of all.

That being said, if anyone knows where I can get a linux server with 750GB space, 4 threads and 8-16GB RAM with the ability to run Slackware, please shoot me a message. I'm paying a little over 30 bucks for these specs right now. But Debian is annoying as hell, I'm willing to chip in a bit more just for Slackware.

Last edited by schmatzler; 04-01-2016 at 04:06 AM.
 
Old 04-01-2016, 05:55 AM   #26
Alien Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmatzler View Post
I wish I could drop Debian and use Slackware everywhere. But I can't

The switch to Jessie made my life so much worse. I maintain a virtual server with Debian since 2009, whenever I upgraded to the latest release I only had to run rcconf, set up the services I wanted for the machine and I was done. Good old sysvinit doing its job.

Starting with Jessie they included systemd and it's just an unintuitive pain to manage services. systemctl and journalctl are not userfriendly to handle, on one occasion the binary log of systemd just broke of no reason. That caused a chain reaction and made fail2ban shut down, which is a nightmare to happen, since that's supposed to protect the machine.

Now I can't trust my own webserver to run 365 days without a problem anymore. Such a mess would never have happened with Slackware.

A switch isn't easy, because of monetary reasons, though. Here in Germany I rely on hosteurope for my VPS. They only offer Ubuntu, CentOS and Debian. Guess what, Debian is the least terrible of all.

That being said, if anyone knows where I can get a linux server with 750GB space, 4 threads and 8-16GB RAM with the ability to run Slackware, please shoot me a message. I'm paying a little over 30 bucks for these specs right now. But Debian is annoying as hell, I'm willing to chip in a bit more just for Slackware.
See https://www.online.net/en/dedicated-server/dedibox-xc - currently 1 left to order but more are added almost on a weekly basis:
  • € 19.35 per month
  • 16 GB RAM
  • 1 TB hard drive
  • 1 Gbps bandwidth guaranteed
  • unlimited traffic

Slackware is not on the list of installable OOS-es but these are real hardware servers with a rescue option. I rent a lower-spec version of this server, booted into rscue mode (basically Ubuntu Live), downloaded a Slackware installer and all packages, and installed Slackware on the harddisk. Straight-forward process, I detailed the steps in another thread yesterday.
You can't beat this price.
 
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Old 04-01-2016, 07:15 AM   #27
kikinovak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmatzler View Post
That being said, if anyone knows where I can get a linux server with 750GB space, 4 threads and 8-16GB RAM with the ability to run Slackware, please shoot me a message. I'm paying a little over 30 bucks for these specs right now. But Debian is annoying as hell, I'm willing to chip in a bit more just for Slackware.
I second Eric's suggestion. I have three Dediboxes at Online.fr, all running Slackware. My main box is a "Dedibox Classic" with a Xeon Quad Core processor and 8 GB RAM. It's not a VPS, but a real bare-metal server. Here's how you can install Slackware on this thing:

http://www.microlinux.fr/microlinux/...ibox-HOWTO.txt

Oh, and BTW:

Code:
[root@sd-48975:~] # uptime
 14:14:09 up 590 days,  4:15,  1 user,  load average: 0.10, 0.10, 0.20
Which means I rented this thing 590 days ago.

Cheers,

Niki
 
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:22 AM   #28
schmatzler
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Woah, awesome! Thanks, guys. That beats the specs I wanted and also beats what I'm currently paying.

Still have a few months of my contract left, but after that Debian can bite me.
 
Old 04-01-2016, 08:24 AM   #29
l0rddarkf0rce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
If a man is impatient he will never have witnessed the flower that bloomed once every thousand years right before his own eyes yesterday. Likewise, if a fool fails to heed advice about the trap that lies ahead, his own demise is of no fault but his own.
Well said grasshopper.
 
Old 04-01-2016, 12:40 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaendo View Post
I have heard that Deabian is ditching Iceweasel and going to start shipping just Firefox.
They are doing in Sid and, I think, Testing. I'm currently contemplating whether to ditch Forefox Nightly for Firefox on my desktop (using it on my laptop and it seems OK). I moved to Firefox in some ways literally just because of the user agent string Iceweasel used to display but as somebody who likes to mess about with things I did find the Nightly Firefox let me try new things sooner. I'll be keeping my eye on Experimental repo's though...
 
  


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