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Old 12-19-2009, 12:21 PM   #76
Old_Fogie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rworkman View Post
If you're lucky, you'll see glib2 and gtk+2 at their latest stable releases (2.22.x and 2.18.x) in -current relatively soonish. :-)
Awesome !!! That should knock out about 2 hours of compiling for me then for things I rebuild for slackware-13++ at the moment. Good news!
 
Old 12-19-2009, 11:43 PM   #77
chaz_bro1972
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Exclamation I pulled KDE 3.5.10 from Slack 12.2...

Well I did it - really did it - I pulled KDE 3 from my Slackware 12.2 so that I could see what it is like running Slackware "KDE-less". BTW, I went ahead of schedule and got Xfce 4.6.1 installed (wowser! was that a nightmare). Let me tell you, without KDE on Slackware there is hardly any apps installed at all. Just about makes me want to rethink this whole notion. It's a virtual ghost town.

Took a long, hard look at Zenwalk (Slackware-based Linux distro which defaults to Xfce4). It's looking more and more like what I want. I really don't want to leave Slackware, but looking at the long list of packages that I can get is really starting to convince me. It typically comes with Xfce4, yet it does not come "app light". It also looks to have Slackware's Package Management, or something close to it.

I probably will NOT jump head first into it. I want to research this a bit more. Make sure it's what I really want to do.

Anyway, wanted to say thanks for all your help. I am still going through the list installing more and more. Who knows, I may just stick with Slackware.
 
Old 12-20-2009, 10:38 AM   #78
tommcd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz_bro1972 View Post
Well I did it - really did it - I pulled KDE 3 from my Slackware 12.2 so that I could see what it is like running Slackware "KDE-less". BTW, I went ahead of schedule and got Xfce 4.6.1 installed (wowser! was that a nightmare). Let me tell you, without KDE on Slackware there is hardly any apps installed at all. Just about makes me want to rethink this whole notion. It's a virtual ghost town.
I just went KDE-less also in Slackware 13 64bit. Slack is pretty sparse without KDE. You will need to spend a lot more time at sackbuilds.org without KDE. There are gtk apps at skackbuilds.org to replace pretty much everything that comes with KDE though. It just takes a bit more effort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz_bro1972 View Post
Took a long, hard look at Zenwalk (Slackware-based Linux distro which defaults to Xfce4). It's looking more and more like what I want. I really don't want to leave Slackware, but looking at the long list of packages that I can get is really starting to convince me. It typically comes with Xfce4, yet it does not come "app light". It also looks to have Slackware's Package Management, or something close to it.

I probably will NOT jump head first into it. I want to research this a bit more. Make sure it's what I really want to do.
I agree. Zenwalk is excellent. I have used every version of Zenwalk since 4.0. It is still light and fast and up to date as ever. And there are a lot more packages in the Zenwalk repos also.
Zenwalk uses their own package manager called netpkg. It has a GUI xnetpkg; and it resolves dependencies. It works well in my experience.

Zenwalk got me interested in Slackware, so I moved to Slack. I still follow and appreciate Zenwalk though. I would recommend it to anyone looking for a light, fast, up to date, and easy to use distro.

Last edited by tommcd; 12-20-2009 at 10:41 AM.
 
Old 12-20-2009, 08:26 PM   #79
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KDE remnants ,QT questions, Zenwalk researched

Still seeing KDE remnants lying around. Like other apps which need KDE that I picked up from Slackbuilds.org. I'm wondering if there are any that I can salvage. Or should I just kick them all to the curb?

Are there any files which need QT, but do not need KDE? Should I keep QT? Should I treat QT like GTK+?

This Zenwalk seems okay on the surface, but upon closer look (I've been reading some reviews about Zenwalk) it seems that netpkg (and the GUI version, too) is a problematic package manager. I looked and I see slapt-get/gslapt in the /extra packages. I can also download the .txz file(s) and use good ol' installpkg, upgradepkg, removepkg, etc. I am coming from Slackware, so dependency issues are not a big problem for me.

Which leads me to the one thing that I am concerned about jumping ship from Slackware: The Challenge. If I leave Slackware for Zenwalk, I am also walking away from The Challenge that IS Slackware. I may grow lazy and comfortable in Zenwalk, and not learn as much as I have been while using Slackware. Slackware pushes me to be creative and innovative in my Linux abilities. Slackware dares me to learn things I never knew before. Truth is I GREW with Slackware. Will I still grow with Zenwalk? Truly something worth thinking about.
 
Old 12-21-2009, 03:24 AM   #80
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Quote:
OK. Let's talk turkey. IMHO, KDE4 just plain sucks
This was your reason for starting this thread. If your machine is not mission critical, you could consider upgrading to current and try out KDE 4.3.4, which IMHO doesn't.

samac
 
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Old 12-21-2009, 05:51 AM   #81
tommcd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz_bro1972 View Post
Still seeing KDE remnants lying around. Like other apps which need KDE that I picked up from Slackbuilds.org. I'm wondering if there are any that I can salvage. Or should I just kick them all to the curb?
Are there any files which need QT, but do not need KDE? Should I keep QT? Should I treat QT like GTK+?
If you want to compile and use KDE apps you don't need the entire KDE desktop. You do need at a minimum: Qt, kdebase, kdelibs, and possibly some others depending on what app you want to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz_bro1972 View Post
This Zenwalk seems okay on the surface, but upon closer look (I've been reading some reviews about Zenwalk) it seems that netpkg (and the GUI version, too) is a problematic package manager. I looked and I see slapt-get/gslapt in the /extra packages. I can also download the .txz file(s) and use good ol' installpkg, upgradepkg, removepkg, etc.
I have never really had a problem with netpkg. It seems to be more conservative with it's dependency management than APT. You can disable dependency management in /etc/netpkg.conf if you want to. Or you can just use the manual method with installpkg, removepkg, etc. I have never used slapt-get or gslapt in Zenwalk. I never felt that I needed them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz_bro1972 View Post
Which leads me to the one thing that I am concerned about jumping ship from Slackware: The Challenge. If I leave Slackware for Zenwalk, I am also walking away from The Challenge that IS Slackware. ... Will I still grow with Zenwalk?
This is also why I moved away from Ubuntu, and eventually settled down with Slackware. Slackware, and this forum, have taught me most of what I know about linux. Slackware is also the only distro I have used that really lets me do only what I want to do, and stays totally out of my way. Sure, it is more effort, but it pays off. You can still learn with Zenwalk I think; but perhaps not quite as much as with Slackware.

Last edited by tommcd; 12-21-2009 at 05:54 AM.
 
Old 12-21-2009, 03:37 PM   #82
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Quote:
Well I did it - really did it - I pulled KDE 3 from my Slackware 12.2 so that I could see what it is like running Slackware "KDE-less".
My two primary production systems are dual core machines and I run Slackware12.2/KDE 3.5.10. I also have two older systems. A 400 MHz K6-III+ CPU, 256 MB RAM, and 40 GB hard drive (throttled to ATA2 by the motherboard). The other is a 350 MHz PII CPU, 448 MB RAM, and 40 GB hard drive (throttled to ATA2 by the motherboard). Often I have considered converting one of those machines into a basic internet box for people who visit me and want to surf the web while here. I run 12.2 and KDE 3.5.10 on both of these older machines. Load times for any app is slow, mostly because of the low-end CPUs and throttled hard drives, but once up and running, the apps run okay. Still, for a basic web surfing system, something like Xfce probably would be saner. Therefore I have been watching this thread for a while although not yet deciding anything.

Quote:
Let me tell you, without KDE on Slackware there is hardly any apps installed at all. Just about makes me want to rethink this whole notion. It's a virtual ghost town.
I agree. I wish Pat would include a dozen or so GTK apps that would fill the void for non-KDE users. Place the packages in the xap or extra tree. Many equivalent apps are available at slackbuilds.org and slacky.eu, but I think a basic collection should be available with the stock Slackware. I have a basic equivalency list at my web site if you are interested.

Quote:
Took a long, hard look at Zenwalk (Slackware-based Linux distro which defaults to Xfce4).
I always have had mixed feelings about Zenwalk. For non-technical users, I like that the Zenwalk folks have provided a GUI control center for certain administrative tasks and have added a GUI package manager. I think those two tools are important for non-technical users. However, I think the Zenwalk folks stray too far from their Slackware roots. They do not claim 100% backwards compatibility with the stock Slackware. There also has been a long-standing debate about the availability of source code.

Several Zenwalk developers departed from the Zenwalk project to form their own distro called Salix. The developers do claim 100% backwards compatibility with the stock Slackware and the version number seems to confirm that claim. I haven't yet tested the system but hope to do so. You might want to consider trying Salix rather than Zenwalk.

Quote:
This Zenwalk seems okay on the surface, but upon closer look (I've been reading some reviews about Zenwalk) it seems that netpkg (and the GUI version, too) is a problematic package manager.
This one reason I want to test Salix. If the developers' claims of 100% backwards compatibility are correct, then their package management system should provide the best of both Slackware and Zenwalk.

Quote:
Which leads me to the one thing that I am concerned about jumping ship from Slackware: The Challenge. If I leave Slackware for Zenwalk, I am also walking away from The Challenge that IS Slackware. I may grow lazy and comfortable in Zenwalk, and not learn as much as I have been while using Slackware. Slackware pushes me to be creative and innovative in my Linux abilities. Slackware dares me to learn things I never knew before. Truth is I GREW with Slackware. Will I still grow with Zenwalk? Truly something worth thinking about.
I don't think your skill set will dwindle any. Zenwalk is more or less Slackware --- without KDE along with all the missing equivalent GTK apps and some additional tools. The Zenwalk folks do things a tad differently underneath but the overall design remains Slackware. I have toyed with Zenwalk sufficiently that even after installing the stock Zenwalk I always immediately starting tweaking the system to include my many personal customizations I have made through the years with Slackware. By the time I was done tweaking I had a Slackware system with Zenwalk trimmings.

I think the Slackware derivatives such as Zenwalk and Salix offer less fuss and maintenance for non-technical users. If you have family members who do not share you desire to tinker under the hood, then those systems might offer those family members some value. With the Slackware foundations you'll be able to maintain those systems much easier because of your familiarity.

I have at times considered installing Slackware for other people because that is the system I am comfortable with. Yet for non-technical people, I see several challenges with the stock Slackware. 1) no GUI admin tools, 2) no GUI package manager, 3) no official package repository. If I decided to support other people with Slackware based systems, then those three areas must be addressed. Perhaps if sbopkg had QT and GTK front-ends, then that might resolve the latter two issues. Most non-technical people will not bother building packages. Some of the Slackware derivative systems offer that kind of expected convenience.

One thing that has always kept me away from GTK based systems is the file picker dialog boxes. I detest them. I very much enjoy the KDE KDialog file picker dialog boxes. Does anybody know of alternate GTK file picker dialog boxes?
 
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Old 12-22-2009, 06:40 AM   #83
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I really don't want to advertize Salix here, but someone else has already done so anyway and what most people talk about here are already present in its repository and can be used by any Slackware 13.0 user, and more or less matches what a default installation of Salix looks like. There is even a x86_64 repository now next to the i486 one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
One thing that has always kept me away from GTK based systems is the file picker dialog boxes. I detest them. I very much enjoy the KDE KDialog file picker dialog boxes. Does anybody know of alternate GTK file picker dialog boxes?
For use in scripts? Xdialog and zenity come to mind.
 
Old 12-22-2009, 07:52 AM   #84
tommcd
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Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
Several Zenwalk developers departed from the Zenwalk project to form their own distro called Salix. The developers do claim 100% backwards compatibility with the stock Slackware and the version number seems to confirm that claim.
Thanks for posting this. Salix looks interesting. I will have to try it out one of these days.
I did know that several Zenwalk developers left the distro because of unfortunate "technical difficulties"...
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...enwalk-726558/
... but I did not know what they were working on currently. I'm glad to see that they have started a new project.

Last edited by tommcd; 12-22-2009 at 07:56 AM.
 
Old 12-22-2009, 01:03 PM   #85
Woodsman
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Quote:
I really don't want to advertize Salix here, but someone else has already done so anyway and what most people talk about here are already present in its repository and can be used by any Slackware 13.0 user, and more or less matches what a default installation of Salix looks like. There is even a x86_64 repository now next to the i486 one.
Hi Gapan,

For those who are unaware, you are one of the Salix developers. Thanks for stopping by.

Although this is the Slackware forum, discussing derivative works is hardly uncommon here. With that said, I have some questions about Salix.

Salix is a fork from Zenwalk.

1. Does Salix include the ZenPanel (control panel) from Zenwalk? If yes, is the Salix version of the ZenPanel backwards compatible with the stock Slackware?

2. Does Salix include the Xnetpkg utility from Zenwalk? If yes, is the Salix version of Xnetpkg backwards compatible with the stock Slackware?

I ask these questions because I believe these two two tools would add significant value to the stock Slackware for non-technical users.

I intend to test Salix soon and likely will find my answers with that effort, but I figured I'd ask here anyway for the benefit of other users.

Quote:
For use in scripts? Xdialog and zenity come to mind.
I am referring to the standard "File Open" "File Save" dialog boxes.
 
Old 12-22-2009, 01:14 PM   #86
gapan
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Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
1. Does Salix include the ZenPanel (control panel) from Zenwalk? If yes, is the Salix version of the ZenPanel backwards compatible with the stock Slackware?
No, zenpanel is not included in salix. However, there are several systemtools ported from zenwalk, improved and tailored to slackware, like tools for easy user management, setting locale/keymap etc. If you want to give them a try in your slack, you can get a package here: http://download.salixos.org/i486/13....noarch-1gv.txz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
2. Does Salix include the Xnetpkg utility from Zenwalk? If yes, is the Salix version of Xnetpkg backwards compatible with the stock Slackware?
No, xnetpkg is specific to zenwalk. Salix uses slapt-get/gslapt by default, which in my opinion is far superior to xnetpkg and much more easier to use anyway. But as any slackware user, you can do without any automatic package management tool of course.
 
Old 12-22-2009, 01:42 PM   #87
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Gapan, thanks for the information.

Quote:
But as any slackware user, you can do without any automatic package management tool of course.
Yes, I'm at home with command line management of packages. My focus is for non-technical users who prefer point-and-click tools for administrative tasks and package management. I would like to install Slackware for other people but I never do because of the lack of GUI admin tools. Non-technical users simply will not tolerate command line tools except in emergencies. As I would be the person who would provide first-line support for these people, I want the Slackware experience to be pleasant for them and not just me as a support person. I have no illusions that non-technical people will adopt the command line, but I do believe many will use almost any well-equipped preinstalled operating system given to them. Non-technical users focus on the apps, not the engine underneath.

As I mentioned, I hope to test Salix soon. I have the ISO downloaded and just need time to install in a virtual machine.
 
Old 12-22-2009, 03:29 PM   #88
chaz_bro1972
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Thumbs up I'm so happy, I could cry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gapan View Post
If you want to give them a try in your slack, you can get a package here: http://download.salixos.org/i486/13....noarch-1gv.txz
Hallelujah! Gapan, I'm not gay, but if you were right in front of me I would just flat out kiss you! So what you're saying is these packages for Salix is 100% interchangeable with Slackware 13.0! S-W-E-E-T!!!


Quote:
Salix uses slapt-get/gslapt by default, which in my opinion is far superior to xnetpkg and much more easier to use anyway. But as any slackware user, you can do without any automatic package management tool of course.
I use slapt-get/gslapt (& the command-line tools provided by Pat V.) on my Slackware 12.2 right now today. Sometimes I use slackpkg, but not often.

Great job on Salix, BTW. Nice to see that there is a light at the end of this long, dark tunnel. Many Thanks to you and the other developers of Salix:

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You,
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You,
Thank You, Thank You!!!

Edit: You too Woodsman. Thank you for telling me about Salix, and that wonderfully long and informative post. It & your "Human Readable" website is very helpful.

Last edited by chaz_bro1972; 12-22-2009 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Forgot to say Thank You to Woodsman
 
Old 12-22-2009, 04:05 PM   #89
chaz_bro1972
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I am ALMOST to the point where I believe that I can safely label this thread SOLVED, but I haven't thoroughly downloaded & installed Slackware 13.0, nor have I tried to use Salix packages on Slackware 13.0. Once that action takes place, and I don't break Slackware, then I will come back here and tell you all.

Wish me luck, folks. Here goes nothing...

Last edited by chaz_bro1972; 12-22-2009 at 04:13 PM.
 
Old 12-28-2009, 10:20 AM   #90
chaz_bro1972
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Thumbs up HeHeHe... man did I GOOF :P

It's funny looking back, but it was painful when I did it. "It" meaning that I totally botched the upgrade from 12.2 to 13.0, forcing me to wipe the whole drive without making backups, and do a clean install of Slackware 13.0. Well it took me a while to recover, but here I am: KDE-less once again.

Only installed Xfce4 & Fluxbox to start. Then commenced to use Salix repositories via Slapt-Get/GSlapt to "finish" Slackware's Xfce's Desktop Environment. Lo & Behold! It worked! Thumbs up to Gapan and all those great hard working people putting together Salix. I should say that I am probably now 45% Salix & 55% Slackware. Probably got quite a few Gnome libs anyway (wth, it IS just plain easier to get them than to not get them).

Anyway, things are rolling pretty good. Only had one tiny glitch so far, but I do not hold it against Salix. I had a bit of trouble using this KDE3 Compatibility stuff. Tried to install from source some old apps that go with IceWM (Ice Control Center). Had to unpack the RPM instead, then copy over those KDE3 lib files.

Haven't tried to go after alien.pl yet. I used it to convert Debian/Ubuntu apps to tgz, but since Slackware uses .txz now I don't think that's going to work anymore.

Anyway, I'm very sleepy, but somewhat satisfied with my Slackware 13.0. I still miss KDE 3.5.10, oh well things change. It wouldn't be called Life, if nothing ever changed. I'm not going to bother going after KDE 3.5.10, even though Pat V. now has it on the Slackware FTP site. It's time to move on. Anybody out there working on KDE 3.5.11 or Kde 3.6? Hint, Hint.
 
  


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