OK. Let's talk turkey. IMHO, KDE4 just plain sucks, and I mean it sucks like Vista. So, I will NOT be installing it when I upgrade to Slackware 13.0. Instead I will be installing XFCE. I will probably be using window managers as well, such as Fluxbox and IceWM, but I digress...

Who here has actually switched 100% from KDE4 to XFCE (ie. removed KDE from their computer, and didn't replace KDE with Gnome)? To me XFCE always feels unfinished (of course this could be due to my lack of experience with XFCE). I HATE KDE4 with a passion - reminds me too much of Vista , but important apps like kdesu, and big apps like KOffice keeps me needing KDE installed, even though I set xwmconfig to some other window manager/desktop environment. What other important/big apps, is XFCE missing? Do I really need either KDE or Gnome installed just to have a complete FULL-ON graphical desktop environment? What can I use instead of the KDE/Gnome Apps.

I DO have several older computers, and it doesn't look like my hardware is going to be replaced/upgraded anytime soon, so this is SO need-to-know information. I would like to start a list of app replacements that XFCE does NOT have natively, yet can be replaced by some other app - WITHOUT needing to install either KDE or Gnome (ie. none of the XFCE Apps found on it's Projects page). So far, here's my list:

1. KOffice/GnomeOffice - OpenOffice.org
2. kdesu/gksu(do) - gtksu (does this require glade/gnome?)
3. Ktorrent - Transmission

Feel free to change this list, if you know a replacement, or if you know something that is missing from XFCE that I forgot to mention - whether it has a know replacement or not. Thanks a bunch.

Chaz

I have been fully content of my usage of KDE 4. So far, I didn't see or read any concrete facts about why KDE 4 sucks. Moreover, many options in KDE 4 can simply be turned off by the user if needed. And the CLI is still there ...

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Here are some basic XFCE/GTK+ replacements from KDE/qt environment (some already packaged with Slackware, some not):

K3b > Xcdroast, xfburn
amarok > xmms, audacious
Ktorrent > Deluge (transmission sucks)
Kget > Uget
Koffice > OpenOffice
Kedit > Mousepad
Kopete > Pidgin
Kmixer > Mixer
ark > xarchiver
dolphin > thunar
kima > gkrellm
Konsole > Terminal
Kmail > Thunderbird
Konqueror > Firefox

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You might find the following list helpful:

Slackware Xfce Improvements

Between slackbuilds.org and slacky.eu you should be able to find most of the packages.

Some of the packages come with the stock Slackware.

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Amiga32's list is good, but I would say that gnumeric and abiword are better than OpenOffice (or Go-OO for me) on older machines with XFCE. I actually find Slackware 13 XFCE it's best one yet, works for me with almost no tweaking.

I've toyed with using Gnome Slack Build and then using XFCE. GSB would get me all the GTK apps I need (for a consistent feel) and XFCE will get me the lightweight environment I like. Has anyone considered this approach?

I actually don't have an opinion on KDE4, I've always just liked the look of GTK environments better.

rworkman recommends ktsuss instead

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KDE4's much faster than Vista
It reminds me of Win7 rather than Vista, though. And it's a whole lot slower than XFCE.

I would not say that I hate kde4, but I do not plan to use it as my desktop, for various reasons.

I have found gtk / pure qt apps for everything I need with one exception

konqueror

I use konqueror for reading man and info pages
reading webpages, adfilter and no plugins + script, mostly help pages
and sometimes ftp
mounting other local partitions
Filemanagment (I like the integration of ark and k3b)
so it is my number 1 (mostly used) kde tool

it is not easy to find a replacement
any idea?

KDE4 doesn't remind me of Vista. In fact, I think the look of Vista is pretty good.(But the system management and the whole design is totally crap...) And kde4 is better than Vista in all respect(look, design, process of development and so on).

You just say you HATE kde4 but didn't say WHY you hate kde4. I consider this thread as FUD thread...

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KDE4 isn't customizable the way I would like. KDE3 IMO is waaay better in this point. KDE4 in my machine (amd 3000+ 1GB) is sluggish (delaying to make appear the system tray icons, remember the windows time! lol) and takes all the ram! And I found some little bugs too... However, this is what I'm using now... lol

I miss KDE3.

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Thanks but both Abiword and gnumeric (I believe) are both very GNOME-centric. OP is shooting for a GTK neutral replacement afaik.

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I've always used OOo anyway, as KOffice has always been a steaming pile of crap in my *personal* opinion (i.e. not speaking for Slackware here).
It requires gksu, which requires libgksu, which requires gconf, libgtop, and gnome-keyring, which requires libtasn1 and gconf. In other words, you'll need gconf, libgtop, gnome-keyring, and libgksu for gksu. Instead, I would (and do) use ktsuss: http://slackbuilds.org/repository/13.0/system/ktsuss/

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Wow! So many replies. HEH! Oops! Looks like I started a flame war. Sorry for that.

@amiga32:
First things first -> So many thanks for your additions to the list. It's very helpful.
I just got Xcdroast. Can it burn iso images?
Have XMMS a long time now, but how do I use it with Shoutcast radio. Right now it's just a cd/mp3 player (in which I am very happy with as cd players go).
Actually never heard of Deluge, but I'll go look it over now that you mentioned it (although Transmission is simple enough for me).
I never use Kget, so I probably won't use Uget. Fact is my hard drive is so little, that I have to decide what and when something gets downloaded manually.
Funny thing about OpenOffice, I used to use it, and go through the hassle of using rpm2tgz for all those rpm files, then installing all those tgz files. Then I said, "To hell with this!", and installed KOffice. :P Oh well. [sigh] Here I go again.
Kedit is another I don't use, I prefer Kwrite. Since I have XFE, I also have XFW (X File Write) which is another simple text editor. Though Mousepad seems okay, I guess.
Pidgin is my preferred Instant Messenger app, over Kopete.
Kmixer?? I guess I never knew that even existed. So I likely won't need to replace it (unless thats the same thing as Kmix from KDE3).
XFE has it's own archiver app built-in - works for me.
Thunar I have used on occasion. It's okay, but I prefer XFE overall. I also used PCManFM, which looks a hell of a lot like Thunar, but IMHO actually has a little more utility to it. For instance, in a directory I can start xterm (XFE does this too).
Heh! I didn't know it, but in Slackware 12.2 I have gkrellm. But I've been using Conky instead.
Terminal, yeah I'm just starting to use it. It's not Konsole, but I guess I'll have to get used to it. Probably use it & xterm. Of course, there is always Control+Alt+F1 - F6.
Kmail - Heh! - I have never used it. I actually use SeaMonkey's or Opera's Mail function for this, that is IF & When I want to download my email. Normally I just use Gmail's Webmail.
I will miss Konqueror as a File Manager, not as a web browser. I can view screenshots of movies, pics, and text files in Konqueror (I'm still using Slackware 12.2 & KDE3).

@grissiom:
Reasons why I "Hate" KDE4, & refuse to install it:
(1) I strongly dislike how heavy on my computer resources KDE4 is.
(2) I strongly dislike how the KDE development team trashed the old KDE3's Kmenu.
(3) I strongly dislike how the icons appear in a box on top of the desktop, instead of just being on the desktop.
(4) I rather liked Kpdf, and wonder why the KDE Dev team couldn't just keep improving that application (and/or Xpdf). If I wanted a fancy-ass Adobe look-a-like I would just get Adobe PDF reader.
(5) I, too, miss Konqueror, but lately I've been using XFE (uses the Fox toolkit).

Chaz_bro1972,

I feel you may be disillusioned due to some of the changes in KDE4, but they are easily corrected.

1) KDE4 actually uses LESS resources then kde3, (at least for me) just by switching of the fancy compositing
2) The old style KDE menu is available as a widget. Simply left click anywhere on the desktop, choose add widget and select the kde traditional app launcher menu
3) In appearance settings, choose dektop view, and KDE4 then looks like KDE3
4) Okular is a much better PDF reader anyway (imo at least) and is part of KDE4
5) Konqueror is still included in KDE4. While I do agree, it is not as good as previous versions, it still gets the job done, and will no doubt improve over time.

Change is a difficult thing to deal with, especially when it puts us outside our comfort zone and the things we have been used to. Give it a chance and you could be pleasantly surprised at just how good KDE4 is.

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