[SOLVED] [Poll] Should future versions of Slackware include Linux-PAM?
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View Poll Results: Should future versions of Slackware include PAM?
Yes, future versions of Slackware should include PAM.
As far as I can judge from here, it would mean a huge amount of work for a third-party maintainer, but only a relatively small amount of alterations made by the BDFL himself. Hence my initial suggestion and this poll.
You may be right about it being easier for him to integrate it. Could you elaborate on your reasoning?
This point included, there are still unknowns about stability and scope of changes in configurations and maintanence. Seeing as how these are major selling points for Slackware, I figure that stuff would be best answered ahead of time. You know, scout ahead and see what it looks like.
While I may not be part of it (I have no time beyond work work), I think this is a wonderful oporotunity to create some type of group on github or something to figure this out. Even a basic project would allow people who are interested in helping or using to get involved. I think this would absolutely push your goals in the direction you want.
I have absolutely no knowlege of anyone's abilities towards these ends, but I hereby volunteer to help get the ball rolling on organizing this on github or something along those lines (if I am able).
Last edited by LysergicFacet; 02-09-2015 at 03:09 AM.
If someone provided a third-party PAM-ified repository, I'd be happily using it. It would be very interesting to have Pat's view on that. As far as I can judge from here, it would mean a huge amount of work for a third-party maintainer, but only a relatively small amount of alterations made by the BDFL himself. Hence my initial suggestion and this poll.
I think you are getting it wrong: alterations needed for a full integration of PAM in the distribution are a lot, you can see most of them in ivandi's repository that, BTW, includes also kerberos (that you will most probably need in your use case) or in vbatts' one; and then there's the testing.
and I don't even want to think at all the needed modifications that we will have to do on SBo's SlackBuilds whenever this will get in Slackware.
if you say you need something integrated in Slackware for your jobs, the best way to achieve it, IMHO, should be to maintain it outside of Slackware, with code (SlackBuilds) and package repositories: this way you can use it in your production environment (with the added value of having the highest level of control on the implementation) and so getting job done (the primary objective, I think), make easy to other to test it, have bug reports but, most important for the eventual future integration, you can show that it works flawlessly.
this is essentially what Eric does with his ktown or his multilib, what the people at GSB do, what willysr and chess do with MSB, what I (think I/am trying to) do (in a smaller scale) with LXDE, or what pretty much everybody that need something integrated beside what's in the standard Slackware do: sometimes proposals get accepted, sometimes not, but in the meantime people still can choose to use this stuff, if they would like to.
if this step lacks (external wide testing) that, IMHO, means Pat should have to do all this work alone and it will certainly be harder for him if he doesn't have a real-world domain where to test PAM stuff...
pushing continuosly on this forum to integrate this stuff without real-life feedback testing, IMHO, has only the result of annoying a lot of forum users (like I think it does the systemd querelle).
no of the mentioned repos replace that many system components,
no of them influence so many other packages that would also pick up PAM
and of course multilib should also be part of Slackware.
Although a few years ago I was an anti-PAM-ite, I've become mostly ambivalent toward inclusion of PAM so long as she does not bring any pain or other unpleasantness. So I have not yet participated in this thread.
But...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanpcmcquen
YOU have plenty of options for a Linux distro with PAM. The COMMUNITY has few options for a Linux distro without PAM. Just like there are few options for a distro without systemd, pulseaudio and dependency resolution.
...
That being said, if Pat decides to adopt PAM, I will continue to use and endorse Slackware.
... that is still just enough of a good reason to keep me off the fence. Since the purpose of the poll was to see what users think about the idea, I will tick the no box and let everyone know why.
So while I will not argue against PAM, I am still biased toward the uniqueness of a PAM-Free Slackware... yea, I am...
so which one to use? and which effects all packages that profit from PAM (none).
and is the not a wast of resources, resources that could be better used?
(example be focused on the upcoming problematic that will make it harder and harder to run actual software on Slackware, I do not mention the word because we should not get this topic in this thread :-)
Pam (or Pamela, she prefers her full name) has asked me to tell you she's quite "happy with her iPad, and wants nothing to do with Slackware...whatever that is."
Is there a reason this will not satisfy the want for PAM in Slackware?
Several.
It's a private experiment Vincent Batts started on Slackware-current.
It's not meant for stable releases.
For now it's x86_64 only.
There's no meta-information for packages, so you can't access the repo with slackpkg.
No guarantee of maintenance or anything similar.
As far as I can tell, ivandi's project has a similar scope. Both projects are highly interesting, but unfortunately they're not usable on production machines (and were never meant to).
Although a few years ago I was an anti-PAM-ite, I've become mostly ambivalent toward inclusion of PAM so long as she does not bring any pain or other unpleasantness. So I have not yet participated in this thread.
But...
... that is still just enough of a good reason to keep me off the fence. Since the purpose of the poll was to see what users think about the idea, I will tick the no box and let everyone know why.
So while I will not argue against PAM, I am still biased toward the uniqueness of a PAM-Free Slackware... yea, I am...
... that is still just enough of a good reason to keep me off the fence. Since the purpose of the poll was to see what users think about the idea, I will tick the no box and let everyone know why.
So while I will not argue against PAM, I am still biased toward the uniqueness of a PAM-Free Slackware... yea, I am...
And it's a valid argument. Thank you for contributing in a constructive manner, astrogeek.
if you're asking a personal opinion, as it's there since a lot of time, it's done by one member of the Slackware core team and follows Slackware's packaging rules in the SlackBuilds, I would say vbatts' one.
his funny and interesting talks about Slackware and other matters that you can find also on youtube also has a weight here on this opinion
Quote:
and which effects all packages that profit from PAM (none).
and is the not a wast of resources, resources that could be better used?
(example be focused on the upcoming problematic that will make it harder and harder to run actual software on Slackware, I do not mention the word because we should not get this topic in this thread :-)
sorry, probably because my english is bad I don't get this part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikinovak
As far as I can tell, ivandi's project has a similar scope. Both projects are highly interesting, but unfortunately they're not usable on production machines (and were never meant to).
I think their scope is exactly to be usable on production machines, but maybe I got it wrong...
as I stated, it's obvious that any of these projects to be useful needs continuous testing and feedback, so if anyone don't use them it will be very hard for them to go far...
Last edited by ponce; 02-09-2015 at 12:11 PM.
Reason: added the bit about Slackware-comformant SlackBuilds
I think their scope is exactly to be usable on production machines, but maybe I got it wrong...
They're both targeting -current, but my servers are either running 14.1 or 14.1 (and some 13.37 that I haven't updated yet).
I'm also a fan of Vincent Batts' talks on Youtube, I must have watched them all. This is the kind of Linux user I really like: serious about his work, but never forgetting to have fun.
Some time ago, I wrote him to suggest he provides his PAM-ified repository for stable releases and both 32-bit and 64-bit architecture, but got no response so far.
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