ALSA problem (u r my last hope) !!

Hello everyone,
I have recently been trying to switch from OSS to ALSA with no luck.
I have spent really alot of time and effort (googlin & reading manuals)
trying to resolve that problem so ur my only hope

when running alsamixer I get the following error:
alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such device

However alsaconf detects correctly my sound card (ali5451).
I have alsa-base and alsamixer and alsautils installed.
I have discover installed as well. OSS is working very fine but I cant
get fullduplex to work so thats why I am switching to ALSA.

I am running Debian testing with kernel 2.6.7 and KDE 3.2.2 so ALSA
modules are complied with the kernel.

Part of /etc/modules.conf:
----------------------------------
## update-modules: start processing /etc/modutils/alsa
alias char-major-116 snd
alias snd-card-0 snd-ali5451
alias char-major-14 soundcore
alias sound-slot-0 snd-card-0
alias sound-service-0-0 snd-mixer-oss
alias sound-service-0-1 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-0-3 snd-pcm-oss
alias sound-service-0-8 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-0-12 snd-pcm-oss



### update-modules: end processing /etc/modutils/alsa

### update-modules: start processing /etc/modutils/alsa-base
above snd-pcm snd-pcm-oss

#lias char-major-116 snd
#alias char-major-14 soundcore

#options snd snd_major=116 snd_cards_limit=1 \
#snd_device_mode=0660 snd_device_gid=29 snd_device_uid=0

#alias sound-service-0-0 snd-mixer-oss
#alias sound-service-0-1 snd-seq-oss
#alias sound-service-0-3 snd-pcm-oss
#alias sound-service-0-8 snd-seq-oss
#alias sound-service-0-12 snd-pcm-oss

#alias snd-card-0 snd-ali5451
##alias snd-card-1 snd-serial
#alias snd-card-2 snd-share
#alias snd-card-3 snd-virmidi

#alias sound-slot-0 snd-card-0
#alias sound-slot-1 snd-card-1
#alias sound-slot-2 snd-card-2
#alias sound-slot-3 snd-card-3

### update-modules: end processing /etc/modutils/alsa-base





Contents of /etc/modutils/alsa:
---------------------------------------
alias char-major-116 snd
alias snd-card-0 snd-ali5451
alias char-major-14 soundcore
alias sound-slot-0 snd-card-0
alias sound-service-0-0 snd-mixer-oss
alias sound-service-0-1 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-0-3 snd-pcm-oss
alias sound-service-0-8 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-0-12 snd-pcm-oss

output of lsmod:
---------------------
Module Size Used by
snd_pcm_oss 55048 0
vfat 14656 1
fat 46688 1 vfat
sd_mod 21728 2
snd_mixer_oss 20096 1 snd_pcm_oss
ds 18532 4
sg 38848 0
ide_cd 43332 0
cdrom 40352 1 ide_cd
fan 3980 0
button 6296 0
ac 4812 0
battery 9388 0
ipv6 255488 8
af_packet 22376 2
ipt_state 2080 53
ipt_REJECT 6912 4
ipt_limit 2528 6
ipt_LOG 6592 6
ip_conntrack_irc 71444 0
ip_conntrack_ftp 72276 0
ip_conntrack 35392 3 ipt_state,ip_conntrack_irc,ip_conntrack_ftp
iptable_filter 2880 1
ip_tables 18432 5 ipt_state,ipt_REJECT,ipt_limit,ipt_LOG,iptable_filter
pci_hotplug 34640 0
ali_agp 7008 1
agpgart 34152 1 ali_agp
parport_pc 35008 0
parport 41832 1 parport_pc
usbhid 32768 0
yenta_socket 21440 1
pcmcia_core 68132 2 ds,yenta_socket
ohci_hcd 21796 0
snd_ali5451 25224 0
snd_ac97_codec 70020 1 snd_ali5451
snd_pcm 98756 2 snd_pcm_oss,snd_ali5451
snd_page_alloc 11752 1 snd_pcm
snd_timer 25668 1 snd_pcm
nls_cp437 5696 3
ntfs 93292 1
dm_mod 44960 0
capability 4520 0
commoncap 7200 1 capability
usb_storage 68064 1
scsi_mod 125004 3 sd_mod,sg,usb_storage
tulip 47168 0
crc32 4320 1 tulip
tsdev 7328 0
usbmouse 5664 0
usbcore 114784 6 usbhid,ohci_hcd,usb_storage,usbmouse
gunze 3712 0
psmouse 20360 0
evdev 9568 0
mousedev 10444 3
emu10k1 84036 0
sound 84332 1 emu10k1
snd_i2c 5920 0
snd 56644 7 snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_ali5451,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_i2c
i2c_dev 10368 0
proc_intf 3872 0
freq_table 4292 0
cpufreq_userspace 5304 0
cpufreq_powersave 1728 0
cpuid 2464 0
adm1021 12424 0
eeprom 7688 0
lm90 11684 0
i2c_sensor 2880 3 adm1021,eeprom,lm90
i2c_core 24084 5 i2c_dev,adm1021,eeprom,lm90,i2c_sensor
thermal 12656 0
processor 17264 1 thermal
toshiba_acpi 6012 0
trident 40564 2
soundcore 10336 6 emu10k1,sound,snd,trident
gameport 4704 1 trident
ac97_codec 18956 2 emu10k1,trident
genrtc 9608 0
ext3 127144 1
jbd 62264 1 ext3
mbcache 9348 1 ext3
ide_disk 19264 4
ide_generic 1408 0
alim15x3 12492 1
ide_core 142808 5 ide_cd,usb_storage,ide_disk,ide_generic,alim15x3
unix 28624 359
fbcon 27460 71
font 8320 1 fbcon
vesafb 6656 1
cfbcopyarea 3840 1 vesafb
cfbimgblt 3040 1 vesafb
cfbfillrect 3776 1 vesafb

I'm really not an ALSA expert but when I read your post telling that ALSA complains about a missing sound control device, I remembered that there's a small script included in the ALSA package to create sound devices. I think this script is run automatically during alsaconf but it can also be run separately, so in your case I'd give it a try. I'm quite probably barking at the wrong tree once again, but if it doesn't do any good it won't do any harm either to re-run this script manually (as root user):

/usr/share/alsa-base/snddevices

You have modules loaded that should not be loaded. Specifically, from the bottom of your "lsmod" output, modules 16-19 should be removed. Notice I said from the BOTTOM of the list up that would be 16-19, starting with "ac_97 codec" and ending with "trident". Those are from the old sound driver and when they are loaded they wont let alsa work. Go into /etc/modules.conf and comment those lines out so they dont load at startup. Post again and let us know how it turns out. Also, you might want to read this page at CCRMA:http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrm...00000000000000
I'm confused as to how the "emu 10k1" is showing up in your modules, that's a Sound Blaster chip. Do you have 2 soundcards?

Rick B

thanx 4 ur reply.
I removed all sound related modules using rmmod including the
modules u told me then ran alsamixer and got the same error.
I even commented all the lines of the sound stuff in /etc/modules.conf
and still all these removed modules gets loaded when I reboot.
I have read the link u have sent me but I have been doing exactly what
it is telling me. lsmod-> rmmod (trident,snd,soundcore,sound,ac97_codec,
snd_pcm.....etc)
and of course when trying to remove trident it tells me that its used by so
and so which i go and remove in turn. till I got all sound related modules
removed.

as for the emu 10k1....that was a mistake.I wrongly added it long ago and
forgot to remove it.I removed it using modconf anyway. So NO ,I dont have
2 soundcards.
Any clues!
thanx in advance

DON'T edit modules.conf directly. Instead, you can edit files in /etc/modprobe.d/ or /etc/modutils/ (you can also add your own configuration files into these directories) and then run update-modules to re-create modules.conf. Another config file that can be freely edited for loading modules during boot time is /etc/modules. If it's discover that loads the modules you don't want, you can add "skip [modulename]" lines to the end of /etc/discover.conf to prevent discover from loading them.

My brother and I both had very similar problems. We found that the problem was that the OSS modules were being loaded automatically and they were 'taking control' of the sound card. I'm sure there is some cool little trick to keep them from loading automatically... but I don't know it.

We decided to make it so the system couldn't find the OSS modules. I moved my /lib/modules/2.6.6-1-k7/kernel/sound/oss directory to my /home directory and rebooted. ALSA works fine now. I probably could have just deleted the oss directory... but I thought it would be smarter to keep it around in case I ever need to put it back. I think my brother got his to work by just renaming the oss directory.

One other thing to remember.... although you probably already know it... is that ALSA comes with everything muted.

>>One other thing to remember.... although you probably already know it... is that ALSA comes with everything muted.<<

How do you un-mute alsa?

Also, if you move all OSS stuff, then I suppose your sound won't work if boot to a different kernel?

Alright now, first thing is, you do not want to remove any modules that have the "snd" (i.e snd_pcm, snd_mixer) at the beginning, not even the one's like "snd_pcm_oss" those are the alsa modules, the modules with "snd_whatever_oss" are the alsa oss emulation modules and you need those also. You also need to get rid of the "emu "10k1" just in case, I don't think it will do any harm but you never know.
Looking at my last post I was wrong about one of the modules I said needed to be removed. The module you need to keep is the "soundcore" module. Try leaving the "soundcore" module and all the modules that start with "snd" in and see how that works.
Dead Parrot sounds like he knows the Debian file structure, and how to keep the other modules from loading at startup, I don't as I use Fedora. To begin with you can simply "rmmod" all the unwanted modules and see if alsa works. If it does great, then you can worry about not loading them at startup.
With alsamixer I always make sure everything is unmuted, make sure there's no "MM" at the top of that particular channel (press "m" to unmute), and turn "all" the levels up to at least where they are yellow, then when alsa is working I go back and mute the channels I don't need so as not to get any extra noise out of those channels.
I also wanted to say that I have done the alsa troubleshooting thing many times, but it has always been with Fedora and the 2.4 kernel from CCRMA, so I'm sure there are some differences, like not knowing how to keep unwanted modules from loading at startup on Debian. Anyway if someone knows something I'm saying is wrong please don't hesitate to correct me. Keep us posted on how it's going.

Rick B

Have you yet tried adding the following line to the end of /etc/discover.conf (and then rebooting)?

skip ali5455

yeah, it seems like its the wrong command. cuz during booting
discover kept on displaying an error message that line 1(from discover.conf)
will be ignored cuz of bad syntax .

The "skip ali5455" command in the end of /etc/discover.conf shouldn't give error messages. Use the "su" command to become root user and then open discover.conf with this command:

nano -w /etc/discover.conf

to see if you have a typing mistake in line 1. You should also try to make sure that discover doesn't load any other OSS modules that would interfere with ALSA. You can check your dmesg and if you see any OSS modules loaded, you can simply tell discover to skip them.

Just a thought, is discover on Debian the equivilant of kudzu on Fedora? The reason I ask is that if you go into your bios and turn off the onboard audio maybe discover will ask you if you want to unconfigure the device on next boot since it thinks it has been removed, in which case you could answer yes, and then turn it back on and when discover finds it again on the next boot and wants to reconfigure just answer no. Then try alsa. Shot in the dark anyway.

Rick B

is discover on Debian the equivilant of kudzu on Fedora?

Discover is the hardware auto-detection utility that Debian uses now by default and it's extensive use (along with hotplug) makes the new Sarge installer much more newbie-friendly when compared to the infamous Woody installer.

http://packages.debian.org/testing/admin/discover


The ALSA documentation in /usr/share/doc/alsa-base/ (also available here: http://olympus.het.brown.edu/cgi-bin.../doc/alsa-base ) points out that hotplug and discover can both load OSS modules that prevent ALSA from working. The documentation is a bit vague but, as far as I understand, the hotplug issue should be automatically fixed. (There's /etc/hotplug/blacklist.d/alsa-base that is automatically created when alsa-base is installed and it causes hotplug to ignore OSS modules.)

However, there is currently no known way to reconfigure discover automatically upon ALSA installation, and so Debian provides users with an example file (/usr/share/doc/alsa-base/alsa-base.discover), which they can simply copy and paste to the end of the /etc/discover.conf file. This alsa-base.discover file consists of a list of common OSS modules that should be skipped during boot time when discover auto-detects the sound card. Or if you know the OSS modules that are loaded for your sound card, you can tell discover to skip just these modules.

So the basic procedure to make ALSA sound work with 2.6 kernels in Debian Sarge or Sid (with hotplug and discover installed) should go like this:

1) Install alsa-base with dependent packages.
2) If you've used OSS before installing ALSA, you probably need to clear /etc/modules and the config files in /etc/modprobe.d/ and /etc/modutils from lines that load OSS modules.
3) Run (as root user) "update-modules" in order to re-create the /etc/modules.conf.
4) Tell discover (in /etc/discover.conf) to skip all OSS modules for your sound card.
5) Reboot to unload any currently loaded OSS modules.
6) Run alsaconf and adjust sound volume in alsamixer afterwards.

That's the (relatively) simple formula that should work in most cases. The list of sound cards that ALSA supports can be found in /usr/share/doc/alsa-base/SOUNDCARDS.gz.

Originally posted by walterbyrd >>One other thing to remember.... although you probably already know it... is that ALSA comes with everything muted.<< How do you un-mute alsa? Also, if you move all OSS stuff, then I suppose your sound won't work if boot to a different kernel?

I don't think moving the OSS stuff would affect any other kernels. I moved the OSS directory out of my 2.6.6-1-k7 kernel directory. There is still an OSS directory in my 2.6.3-1-386 kernel. I would assume that each kernel uses it's own module. I guess I haven't really tested it all out though.

I'd say you'd do much better to follow the other advice in this thead. I just took the quick and dirty way out.

Oh... and to un-mute alsa, I use gnome-alsamixer.

I added the skip command in discover.conf but it seems like not working cause
it loads the trident modules when booting.

Part of syslog:
------------------
Jul 26 22:26:42 spark kernel: Generic RTC Driver v1.07
Jul 26 22:26:42 spark kernel: Trident 4DWave/SiS 7018/ALi 5451,Tvia CyberPro 5050 PCI Audio, version 0.14.10j-2.6, 05:55:14 Jul 8 2004
Jul 26 22:26:42 spark kernel: trident: ALi Audio Accelerator found at IO 0xed00, IRQ 11
Jul 26 22:26:42 spark kernel: ac97_codec: AC97 codec, id: (Unknown)


/etc/discover.conf:
-----------------------
<?xml version="1.0"?>

<!-- $Progeny: discover.conf 3839 2003-11-17 04:25:01Z dsp $ -->

<!DOCTYPE conffile SYSTEM "conffile.dtd">

<conffile>
<busscan scan="default">
<bus name="ata"/>
<bus name="pci"/>
<bus name="pcmcia"/>
<bus name="scsi"/>
<bus name="usb"/>
</busscan>
</conffile>
skip ali5455
skip trident
skip ac97_codec



lsmod shows exactly what I have showed in the beginning of the thread. All
modules are loaded and none was skipped !!! any ideas. thanx