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Old 04-26-2014, 09:24 AM   #46
jlinkels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
Where did you get 220watts?
That paragraph was to show how you "need" a 520 Watts power supply if your system consumes only 220 Watts. It was not to say a 220W rated PSU is adequate or so.
[QUOTE=cascade9;5159535]

jlinkels
 
Old 04-26-2014, 09:37 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlinkels View Post
That paragraph was to show how you "need" a 520 Watts power supply if your system consumes only 220 Watts. It was not to say a 220W rated PSU is adequate or so.
Umm....not what you said before-

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlinkels View Post
But if you insist on it: I estimate you need 220W real Watts.
I was just wondering how you arrived at 220watts.

As for the maths to show you 'need' 520watts for a system that draws 220watts...not IMO. I havent seen any quality PSUs with 'peak/continuous', feel free to find an example of a quality PSU that is rated that way..even if you can find one, 95%+ of qulaity PSUs that say 500watts can deliver at least 475watts continuous, and some can even go over 500watts...
 
Old 05-13-2014, 04:42 PM   #48
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Now they have sent me a new motherboard of the same model (allegedly new).

But I have lost the backplate of the cpu cooler! Must have been left on the old motherboard.

Does such a thing exist as a spare part for a cpu cooler (backplate for the Noctua NH-U9B SE2)?

Without a backplate (but with rubber rings on the screws that cross the motherboard), will the cpu overheat?
 
Old 05-22-2014, 06:47 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
That system should be pulling less than 120watts @ max CPU load.
Confirmed. It actually pulls 88 W from the electricity mains (as measured by looking at the house meter). This is with your recommended Corsair PSU, the CPU at 100%, GPU at 95%, and a disk benchmark test running.

With the old DC-to-DC PSU under the same load the system pulls 78 W (as measured with a DC amp meter and a DC voltmeter).

So connecting directly to the batteries only increases run-time by 88/78/0.94-1 = 20%. Not worth the risk.

(The 0.94 figure is the efficiency of the inverter as given in its spec).

Last edited by Ulysses_; 05-22-2014 at 06:52 AM.
 
Old 05-22-2014, 08:23 AM   #50
jlinkels
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Can I please invite the members who insisted that a 450W or even a 520W power supply is the minimum for a system like this to explain that again?

jlinkels
 
Old 05-22-2014, 12:14 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
I used:
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/p...ulatorlite.jsp
To estimate the required power. Make sure to factor in 20-30% capacitor aging. With that 250W is just barely cutting it. 350W would have been a better choice. If you ever plan on getting a decent graphics card get 450W, more for a high-end graphics card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlinkels View Post
Can I please invite the members who insisted that a 450W or even a 520W power supply is the minimum for a system like this to explain that again?

jlinkels
Try using the calculator at the link that I posted. With the 30% capacitor aging it recommend 253 W. However, I recommend adding 50 - 100 W to this value, this is to account for possible poor labeling and manufacturing quality, and for future expansions and to keep the PSU running cooler. With a graphics card, you should add another 50 - 100 depending on the card.

EDIT: You may say that the + 50-100 W is a fudge factor, and you may be right. From experience, however, I always add this because I've been burned in the past for buying PSUs on a budget. The PSU can damage other components too when it fails, don't cheap out on it or you'll pay more in the end.

Last edited by metaschima; 05-22-2014 at 12:18 PM.
 
Old 05-22-2014, 12:27 PM   #52
jlinkels
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Ahhh... so if you have a measured consumption of 90W you need to have a rated 450 Watts?

jlinkels
 
Old 05-22-2014, 01:24 PM   #53
metaschima
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"90W" I have searched this thread for it and this is the first time "90W" is mentioned. Where did YOU get this number ?

Also, please try to read what you post before posting it. Make sure it makes sense and refers to something relevant. Posting a random question with random numbers in it does nobody any good.
 
Old 05-22-2014, 01:46 PM   #54
jlinkels
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Post #49.

Sorry, actually it is 88 and 78 Watts.

jlinkels
 
Old 05-22-2014, 03:55 PM   #55
metaschima
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Well, if you have directly measured the power drawn, then you are more informed and don't need estimates or calculators. If it is drawing that and the PSU is outputting more, then you're good to go. I don't have a multimeter, so I estimate.
 
Old 05-25-2014, 11:37 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
Try using the calculator at the link that I posted. With the 30% capacitor aging it recommend 253 W.
i7-3770, 90% TDP, 1 Green SATA, 90% system load, 100% CPU load, 30% cap aging, and everything else at defualts I get 154 watts minimum, 204 watts recommended.

Code:
System Type:		1 physical CPU	
Motherboard:		Regular - Desktop	
CPU Socket:		Socket LGA 1155	
CPU:		Intel Core i7-3770 3400 MHz Ivy Bridge	
CPU Utilization (TDP):		90% TDP	
			

ATTENTION: FOR PERSONAL, NON-COMMERCIAL USE ONLY
			
Green SATA:		1 HDD	
			
Keyboard and mouse:		Yes	
			
System Load:		100 %	
			
Capacitor Aging (+ W %):		30 %	
			
 
Minimum PSU Wattage:		154 Watts	
Recommended Wattage:		204 Watts
I spose you included a DVD drive as well but even then I get only 192/242-

Code:
System Type:		1 physical CPU	
Motherboard:		Regular - Desktop	
CPU Socket:		Socket LGA 1155	
CPU:		Intel Core i7-3770 3400 MHz Ivy Bridge	
CPU Utilization (TDP):		90% TDP	
			

ATTENTION: FOR PERSONAL, NON-COMMERCIAL USE ONLY
			
Green SATA:		1 HDD	
			
DVD-RW/DVD+RW Drive:		1 Drive	
			
Keyboard and mouse:		Yes	
			
System Load:		100 %	
			
Capacitor Aging (+ W %):		30 %	
			
 
Minimum PSU Wattage:		192 Watts	
Recommended Wattage:		242 Watts
But that is the wrong CPU, and including a DVD is bit off. Maybe the system does have a DVD drive, but I wouldnt assume that. Assuming that and using the numbers generated to show what you think the system needs is skewing things more.

Using no DVD and the correct CPU it drops to 116/166-

Quote:
System Type: 1 physical CPU
Motherboard: Regular - Desktop
CPU Socket: Socket LGA 1155
CPU: Intel Core i7-3770T 2500 MHz Ivy Bridge
CPU Utilization (TDP): 90% TDP


ATTENTION: FOR PERSONAL, NON-COMMERCIAL USE ONLY

Green SATA: 1 HDD

Keyboard and mouse: Yes

System Load: 100 %

Capacitor Aging (+ W %): 30 %


Minimum PSU Wattage: 116 Watts
Recommended Wattage: 166 Watts
Even at 0% added for capicitor aging its still 90/140-

Code:
System Type:		1 physical CPU	
Motherboard:		Regular - Desktop	
CPU Socket:		Socket LGA 1155	
CPU:		Intel Core i7-3770T 2500 MHz Ivy Bridge	
CPU Utilization (TDP):		90% TDP	
			

ATTENTION: FOR PERSONAL, NON-COMMERCIAL USE ONLY
			
Green SATA:		1 HDD	
			
Keyboard and mouse:		Yes	
			
System Load:		100 %	
			
 
Minimum PSU Wattage:		90 Watts	
Recommended Wattage:		140 Watts
Compare that to what is measured by Ulysses_

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysses_ View Post
Confirmed. It actually pulls 88 W from the electricity mains (as measured by looking at the house meter). This is with your recommended Corsair PSU, the CPU at 100%, GPU at 95%, and a disk benchmark test running.

With the old DC-to-DC PSU under the same load the system pulls 78 W (as measured with a DC amp meter and a DC voltmeter).

So connecting directly to the batteries only increases run-time by 88/78/0.94-1 = 20%. Not worth the risk.

(The 0.94 figure is the efficiency of the inverter as given in its spec).
BTW the actual power consumption of the computer is going to be less than 88 watts, or even 78 watts. Assuming that the PicoPSU was 95% efficient thats 73 watts real draw 'at the motherboard'.

Those are draw figures, and even with high efficiency PSUs there will be some loss.

Also, its worth remembering that while things have gotten better, most PSUs deliever lower efficiency at very low loads. In general they are most efficient at 40-60% of labeled load, which is another reason why people suggest massive PSUs...you dont need many overclockers at the bleeding edge of stability to figure out that a huge PSU, much larger than needed, can provide that tiny bit more staiblity that turns the system from 10 BSODs a gaming session to just 1 or 2.....

But that really doesnt matter to general users, and any advantanges provided by massively oversized PSUs is outwieghed by other factors IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
However, I recommend adding 50 - 100 W to this value, this is to account for possible poor labeling and manufacturing quality, and for future expansions and to keep the PSU running cooler. With a graphics card, you should add another 50 - 100 depending on the card.

EDIT: You may say that the + 50-100 W is a fudge factor, and you may be right.
There is a reason why it has 'Minimum PSU Wattage' and 'Recommended Wattage'.

The minimum is what it thinks a 'safe' minimum is...its already allowing for 'bad' manufacturing, and differing power draws from parts you'd think should use the same power.

As we can see from Ulysses_ data, its increased by quite a large factor (73 watts real vs 90 watts bare minimum).

The recommended wattage is has already allowed for not only dodgy/higher than expected power draw parts, but has now included 50 watts for future expansion.

What you are doing is 2nd guessing a number thats a 'safe' number with a 2nd guess already included.

That is taking something thats already fudged (the original 'minimum' power draw), then had some arbitary 50 watts added to it, then said you need to add more again for exactly the reasons why the original is fudged (differing power draws, differening manufacturing quality, etc.) and to double up on the 'for future expansion'. Then added more again in case someone might want a video card.

I'd assume that anyone happy with the intel HD video isnt going to ever bother adding a video card, and if they did its not going to be some gamers monster.

There is a big difference between a 'general' system, and a system built for low power draw. Would you suggest a V8 for a mini 'just in case you ever want to tow a caravan'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
EDIT: You may say that the + 50-100 W is a fudge factor, and you may be right. From experience, however, I always add this because I've been burned in the past for buying PSUs on a budget. The PSU can damage other components too when it fails, don't cheap out on it or you'll pay more in the end.
Which is exactly why I was saying that overstating PSU requirements is a bad idea. It doesnt matter so much at the lower and/or smarter end, if you tell people who are buying 'general' systems with midrange video cards they need at least 650 watts but 750 watts is better, they are more likely to buy some dodgy yum cha PSU thats cheap but _says_ its 850 watts.....
 
Old 05-25-2014, 05:39 PM   #57
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Speaking of dodgy PSU's, with the old Pico PSU powering the brand new replacement mobo I have noticed the mouse pause for a second or so sometimes. This has never happened with the Corsair PSU.
 
  


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