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Old 08-06-2017, 09:31 PM   #1
frankbell
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Disney Being Sued for Invading the Privacy of Children


The Register reports: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08...ing_kids_info/

Excerpt:

Quote:
A class-action lawsuit [PDF] filed Thursday in northern California accuses the unstoppable children's entertainment brand and three of its developer partners of violating privacy laws by tracking the locations and activities of kids who use their mobile games without first asking parents to approve the activity.
And this would be surprising how?
 
Old 08-07-2017, 01:48 AM   #2
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Parents must be living under a rock. This is the norm of apps on mobile devices and tablets. LOL
 
Old 08-07-2017, 01:55 AM   #3
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OMG! No way! This is unprecedented! This has never been done before and is not an ongoing issue with the majority of giant corporations!
 
Old 08-07-2017, 03:17 AM   #4
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what's with the sarcasm?

the news here is that finally somebody had the balls to take sth like this to court, and with Disney!
kudos!
I hope it creates a much needed precedent case.

much needed globally, but especially in the dishevelled states of trumpian america.

is there a petition somewhere i can sign?
 
Old 08-07-2017, 08:17 AM   #5
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Never mind "Donald Trump," pretty-please, ondono ... you're absolutely right. We are right now living in a dystopia that is worse than 1984, and no one has yet challenged it in court. (Legislators are far too easily bribed into a pleasant stupor.) They've picked the biggest and richest target they could find, and the precedent will be huge.

To me, it's not "the Mouse," but rather, the practice, which the public is not aware of, and would never consent to, if they were. Furthermore, and as I have written here before, no one is paying attention to what is actually happening to their data in this "Happy Little Cloud" that we've constructed. There are human beings throughout all of it, and human beings are sometimes not ... nice.
 
Old 08-07-2017, 07:25 PM   #6
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It's not easy to win our rights to privacy these days. The courts and our governments legislation will always favor the side of these companies and couldn't care less to the privacy of the consumer.

I would be surprised if the family wins this case.
 
Old 08-07-2017, 08:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IFTTT View Post
It's not easy to win our rights to privacy these days. The courts and our governments legislation will always favor the side of these companies and couldn't care less to the privacy of the consumer.

I would be surprised if the family wins this case.
There are legal cases which serve to define precedent and to describe the collective will of the nation, and I am waiting to see which one will begin to define the new regulatory environment of computers, data, and the Internet. I have no doubt that it will come, and that legislation will follow. I do not believe that courts will continue to "care less about the privacy of the consumer," precisely because some parents do. (And, they are right.) These parents are plaintiffs.
 
Old 08-07-2017, 09:02 PM   #8
frankbell
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As far as I am concerned, the issue is not whether Disney's invasion of privacy is unprecedented. Spying on users has become routine in the smartphone world.

And, remember, the population here at LQ is not typical; it is far more knowledgeable than the average Android/iPhone/computer user. The typical smartphone user doesn't have a bleeping clue about this. They play Candy Crush (or whatever it's called) without realizing that they are the candy getting crushed.

Heck, I was talking with a friend the other day and mentioned that Android flashlight apps were suspected as vectors of/for tracking user data (Snopes has a good, balanced article about this), and this person is a cautious and skeptical internet user who won't click on a link without verifying that it is valid.

What's notable about this is that persons in the general public are becoming aware and starting to fight back. And I say more power to them.

Last edited by frankbell; 08-07-2017 at 09:04 PM.
 
Old 08-08-2017, 07:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
As far as I am concerned, the issue is not whether Disney's invasion of privacy is unprecedented. Spying on users has become routine in the smartphone world.
... but this is precisely what a case like this is about. Do parents, determined to safeguard their children from what are very real modern-day threats, consent to this so-called "routine precedent?" Emphatically not!

Remember, it is illegal to eavesdrop on a telephone conversation without a court order. (Although manufacturers of telephone hardware are trying to insist that "Siri-like" speech recognition software, built into the switch hardware itself, somehow is not "wiretapping" because a person is not listening. I don't expect that they will be successful, once the word gets out to the public.) People do have an expectation of privacy. The HIPAA and HITECH laws, covering medical information in the United States, are draconian concerning privacy. (Although no one has yet tested the fact that your cell-phone can monitor your whereabouts, your footsteps and your heartbeat ... things which have somehow not yet been recognized to also be "personally-identifiable health information.")


Quote:
And, remember, the population here at LQ is not typical; it is far more knowledgeable than the average Android/iPhone/computer user. The typical smartphone user doesn't have a bleeping clue about this. They play Candy Crush (or whatever it's called) without realizing that they are the candy getting crushed.

Heck, I was talking with a friend the other day and mentioned that Android flashlight apps were suspected as vectors of/for tracking user data (Snopes has a good, balanced article about this), and this person is a cautious and skeptical internet user who won't click on a link without verifying that it is valid.

What's notable about this is that persons in the general public are becoming aware and starting to fight back. And I say more power to them.
The public realization is real, and growing rapidly. When, not if, the court verdicts are handed down and upheld on appeal, they will head to the top court – but Congress (and other world legislative bodies) will get on the band-wagon first. (Legislatures always respond reactively.)

And the impact upon our industry will be huge. Entire companies will be wiped out, buried under legal judgments they can't pay. Databases will become a pariah, and it will suddenly become extremely important (as it now is with medical data) where the data is and who is authorized to have access to it or to its programming.

If racism and resentment to "non-immigrant visa" IT workers enters into the picture – as I fully anticipate that it will – then it's going to capsize the Titanic. If you're working in a country where you are not a citizen, and you wish to stay there, then I advise you to seek naturalization immediately ... no matter what your "sponsor" says about it. The process takes time, but millions who passed through Ellis Island, back in the day, got it done. Otherwise, if things go as I anticipate that they might, you could suddenly find yourself both out of a job and out of the country, never to return. (Or, if you prefer your homeland, you might find yourself leaving for home – or, choosing to do so – rather abruptly.) Eyes-open. Be aware. Watch for smoke. Be prepared.

I also anticipate the arrival of government regulation of programming as a licensed profession, much as is now done for ... say ... electricians, plumbers, air conditioning, and low-voltage wiring installers. (Not to mention almost everyone in the medical fields.)

Yes, I predict that our industry will be vastly changed, and that this change has already begun and cannot be stopped. We made this bed. We are about to be made to lie in it.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-08-2017 at 07:56 AM.
 
Old 08-10-2017, 01:29 AM   #10
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
As far as I am concerned, the issue is not whether Disney's invasion of privacy is unprecedented. Spying on users has become routine in the smartphone world.
in my use of the word "precedent", i meant this legal term - not that it hasn't happened before, but that a court case like this - supposing the parents win it - will create a strong precedent, that makes it much easier to win subsequent, similar cases, because they can refer to this first case.

(of course it is possible that other precedents already exist, but this looks like the first "really big one" to me, esp. concerning mobile games. correct me if i'm wrong)

google is next.
 
Old 08-10-2017, 08:22 AM   #11
sundialsvcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
google is next.
Yes, and I want to see it. Not specifically because I wish the company ill, but because today there are no laws, and no legal decisions, covering a great many things:
  1. If we have laws on the books to prohibit "wiretapping," is it legal for the telephone switch to use speech-recognition to transcribe your conversation ... especially, "routinely?"
  2. Is it legal for an automated vacuum cleaner to build a map of your house and transmit it somewhere, as right now it very-obviously does?
  3. Is it legal for that "Hey, Google" (or, "Siri") device to be listening to your every word?
  4. If we have strict laws like HIPAA and HITECH defining and controlling "personally-identifiable health information," and proscribing draconian penalties to protect it, isn't a record of your heartbeat and footsteps such a record?
  5. Is it legal for your phone to track your exact location and transmit it, somewhere, as it now does?
  6. Is it legal for your iPhone to perform facial recognition on all your pictures, and to transmit them somewhere, without your consent and without you being able to stop it from doing so?
  7. Is it legal for your car to transmit your exact location, and to be remotely controllable?
  8. What is the expectation of privacy concerning e-mails and text messages? After all, you put letters in envelopes and they must not be steamed open. No one transcribes and analyzes the content of your postcards: no one is allowed to.
  9. Is the Internet a "common carrier," in the legal sense of the word?
  10. etc ...

In short, we have in very short order created a world for ourselves that is far worse than anything George Orwell ever dreamed of. (He was only off by 20 years ...) Our laws have not even begun to catch up. Absent such legislation, internet-related companies have wasted no time piling on one abuse after another, and they see nothing wrong with it. (In fact, they think it's "cool.")

The public is now beginning to realize what has been going on, and, "Hell hath no fury ..."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-10-2017 at 08:24 AM.
 
Old 08-12-2017, 09:41 PM   #12
frankbell
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Quote:
The public is now beginning to realize what has been going on, and, "Hell hath no fury ..."
This is the same public that runs nekkid through the Zuckerborg every day?

Make no mistake, I agree wholeheartedly with sundialsvcs that spying as a default--because that's what it is, spying--should come to an end. For all practical purposes, computer users who use social media are running through a gauntlet of keyloggers (and that's from someone who has used a keylogger in the face of a personal betrayal).

But I hear no outcry from the general public.

I do hope that this Disney case will spark some outrage, but I sadly doubt that it will. The general public is too busy playing Candy Crush and posting selfies to Snapchat.

By the way, I wasn't always this cynical. Then I turned 10.

Last edited by frankbell; 08-12-2017 at 09:42 PM.
 
Old 08-13-2017, 04:07 AM   #13
ondoho
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well, i'm somewhere in between these 2 extremes (cynical and disillusioned on one side, constantly preaching the revolution on the other side) -
my experience is that people do care about their privacy (and once again i have to say to all US residents: take a look at some other countries & their people - esp. europe) and at least some laws exist.
it is also my experience that many normal (i.e. not nerds) people have a basic understanding of what i'm talking about, and don't want that to happen to their kids, although they just shrug it off when it comes to their own smart phones, google accounts and SM activities.
 
Old 08-13-2017, 08:10 PM   #14
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I calmly suspect that people really expect that neither Facebook nor anyone else "is actually 'okay'" in collecting the data that they do. The fact that I use a chat service to chat among my "friends" does not entitle the company that is providing the service to gather (let alone, sell ...) information about me.

I anticipate that the law will soon define, and protect, "PII = Personally-Identifiable Information" of all sorts. And that this will seriously change the business model of companies like Google and Facebook. I submit that "it is only a (short) matter of time."

Yes, you can collect information about what I buy at your store, if I consent, to allow you to give me coupons that are more agreeable to me. But you cannot sell that information to anyone else. And, any information which is not directly related to "a commercial exchange" would be privileged.

I believe that this actually represents what people expect. The post office doesn't analyze the mail you send. The phone company (supposedly) isn't allowed to listen in. Devices which listen-in in your home would become illegal. There are a great many things about your life which are "nobody's business but yours." You have a right to operate in rooms that are not "bugged."

"It is only a (short) matter of time," and it will change our present world tremendously. We've gotten away with too much for too long. (Although, bear in mind that the Internet is still only about 12-15 years old ...)
 
  


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