The Faith & Religion mega Thread

P.s: I don't exclude myself from the stupido classification, just include us all.

@ sundialsvcs - One vote here for never having heard "still, small voices". I literally and emphatically have no concept of what you are talking about.

@ jdkaye - If it weren't for such customs as The Inquisition and extremist Islam that will torture and kill dissenters, down to the exclusive crowd of fundamentalist and near fundamentalist groups that ostracize anyone who doesn't believe as they do, there would be no concern if there was or was not God. It, otherwise, makes zero difference to how I conduct my life.

@ rokytnji - No wonder you live in the boondocks. Such humor is dangerous in Texas, is it not?

Originally Posted by jamison20000e Killing, controlling or taking in the name of?

Agree 100% if you're playing the shell game as the hustler but why would anyone (willingly) be the victim? If we're talking on the intellectual/philosophical level, why would anyone care? Whether one exists or not (and that's assuming the term 'god' has any meaning) is not really an interesting question. If you need a god fix, just try cmb radiation and have done with it.
jdk

Originally Posted by enorbet @ jdkaye - If it weren't for such customs as The Inquisition and extremist Islam that will torture and kill dissenters, down to the exclusive crowd of fundamentalist and near fundamentalist groups that ostracize anyone who doesn't believe as they do, there would be no concern if there was or was not God. It, otherwise, makes zero difference to how I conduct my life.

Sorry enorbet, but you've lost me there. What does the existence/non-existence of some god object have to do with people doing nasty things? The hustler may or may not believe there is a god or gods but that is totally independent of whether god does indeed exist or not (if that even has a meaning). The victim certainly has to believe that there is a god or the scam won't work. A consumer may believe that homoeopathy is effective but that is totally independent of whether or not it really is effective. Belief in something is not evidence of its existence.
jdk

I don't know, enorbet. Maybe you will; maybe you won't. I can't speak for other people and I certainly can't speak for deities.

The Southern Baptist brand of religion was stuffed down my throat until I became old enough to drive a car. And I still live in an area where there are nine churches between here and the Post Office, two miles away, with a new church about to be constructed. And, although I do not share their religious fever, nor attend their services, I do from time to time help those institutions deliver food and clothing. Which they do, and that's why I help them. "Feed my sheep?" Yeah, I grok that. I can cook and carry soup.

There's no question that religion is a deep part of human society, one way or another, and that it always has been. Even those who call themselves "atheists" are, sometimes I think, "positively religious in their embracement of "whatever-it-is that they rejected religion for."

You (any "you") are going to grapple with the same big, unanswerable questions. How you choose to do that, is up to you. No matter who you are, you will look up at the sky, and come to terms with it.

If someone insists that nothing is "real" unless it can be objectively measured, or buttressed by a mathematical theory (no matter how absurd that theory may be), I think that those people are missing-out on a whole lot of life. I find talk about "a 'big bang'" to be no less, or more, improbable than "and God said, let there be." Or, Native legends about First Man and First Woman. But it is sterile, not culturally rich. How sad ...

Originally Posted by jdkaye I can't get my head around why people think whether or not they exist is interesting or important. There is a god, so what? There isn't a god, so what?

It seems like you're specifically assuming everyone is talking about a non-interacting god. If there is a god, and not praying to him/her/them will earn you everlasting hellfire, that seems pretty important to know.

A consumer may believe that homoeopathy is effective but that is totally independent of whether or not it really is effective.

What about the the placebo effect?

@ rokytnji - No wonder you live in the boondocks. Such humor is dangerous in Texas, is it not?

Yep.

Funny how you mention that. Sounds almost radical islam like? Don't it?

Originally Posted by ntubski It seems like you're specifically assuming everyone is talking about a non-interacting god. If there is a god, and not praying to him/her/them will earn you everlasting hellfire, that seems pretty important to know. What about the the placebo effect?

I'm afraid I don't understand your post at all. I make no assumptions about anything. I have no idea what is meant by "god" or whether it supposedly prefers blackberries to blueberries or interacting to non-interacting and being content to hummmmmmmmmmmm like CMBR. I have no idea what hellfire means. I've managed to live 73 years without having any knowledge (if that's the correct term) of these items.

What about "what about the placebo effect"? I don't understand your question.
jdk

Whatever you do,,, don't cry Bloody Mary five times, with a sink full of goats blood in front of a bathroom mirror lit by candles... just on the off chance she'll get you??? now that sounds like kids stories and games.

And the problem is that one man's (or woman's) Bloody Mary is another man's (or woman's) Singapore Sling. And if you are such a one that has "god-driven" dietary restrictions then can you eat every day or not? If you can eat, can you eat pork or not? If not, can you eat prawns or not? So many different rules to learn... does that mean there are so many different gods? each one with its own rules? And to think I haven't even brought up rules of head coverings or rules of sexual orientation. It just goes on and on.

Oh, and given so many different choices to make, does anyone disagree with their particular god? For example if your god hates gays, can you be such a one who finds such a moral position disgusting but has to bow to the big guy on this one?
jdk

Originally Posted by jdkaye I have no idea what is meant by "god" or whether it supposedly prefers blackberries to blueberries or interacting to non-interacting and being content to hummmmmmmmmmmm like CMBR. I have no idea what hellfire means. I've managed to live 73 years without have any knowledge (if that's the correct term) of these items.

Suppose there were there were a god that that was going to give you a wedgie when you turn 74 unless you ate 42 blackberries the night before. Wouldn't this be important to know?

Originally Posted by jdkaye What about "what about the placebo effect"? I don't understand your question.

The placebo effect is just an example of belief having an effect on the result. Mostly off-topic anyway I guess.

Originally Posted by ntubski Suppose there were there were a god that that was going to give you a wedgie when you turn 74 unless you ate 42 blackberries the night before. Wouldn't this be important to know?

I'm afraid I don't know what a "wedgie" means. Is it some kind of kiss that leaves a mark? Anyway, this would only be important if
a: The claim was testable, i.e. it could be true or false.
b: The source of the claim was a trusted and reliable one.
c: The claim was credible, i.e. given knowledge of the world it would be a conceivable event.
d: I didn't want to get a wedgie.
There are people who think that if a black cat crosses your path you will have bad luck. Is that important to you?

The placebo effect is just an example of belief having an effect on the result. Mostly off-topic anyway I guess.

Yes, indeed it is. I am not concerned about whether people believe something but rather if there is any evidence for the correctness of those beliefs.
I think you can guess my opinion on the matter.
Conclusion: Even if you good somehow find a coherent definition of "god" such that one would know one when one saw/felt/tasted/smelled... one what possible interest would there be one should one exist?
jdk

Can any Christian(s) here answer this?
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/219/4...g?v=1179100742

Originally Posted by lupusarcanus Can any Christian(s) here answer this? http://farm1.static.flickr.com/219/4...g?v=1179100742

Interesting. I didn't realize that this argument was that old. Anyway, here's the Wikipedia page on the attempts to answer it over the ages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

I'm most familiar with the "free will" counterargument (having been subjected to it extensively), which of course rejects one of Epicurus' premises.

Originally Posted by ntubski ... The placebo effect is just an example of belief having an effect on the result. Mostly off-topic anyway I guess.

As an agnostic-atheist but raised to be catholic, I've wonder if I die in a traumatic way will the false teachings of my youth help put my mind at ease? Not worth it like public school in all... My grandmother said she was scared when she was dying and she had a rosary in her hand while I told her we all love her (don't need a god for love.)

Every day we change the world. But to change the world in a way that means anything that take more time that most people have. it never happens all at once. Its slow. Its methodical. Its exhausting. We don't all have the stomach for it.