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Old 03-25-2008, 06:05 PM   #16
Marel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by custangro View Post
Just wondering...

What's your reason for not using CentOS? Or buying the academic version of Red Hat ($60)?

Just curious...

-C
I want to be convinced that CentOS provides the same updates as Red Hat. Currently, we use none of them.
 
Old 03-25-2008, 07:43 PM   #17
custangro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marel View Post
I want to be convinced that CentOS provides the same updates as Red Hat. Currently, we use none of them.
Have you read their wiki?

http://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/General

Also take a look at this...

http://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/General#h...d693f1f7038ccb
 
Old 10-28-2008, 10:07 AM   #18
poweredbydodge
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I think what the original poster was after was... (and he should have said)...

'' Since RH-x-L is at its heart Open Software, where can I get ahold of a fair/legal copy that I can run? ''

The best answer I can think of would be...

'' The Fedora (Core) Project was developed to serve two purposes. First, to allow and foster community development of Red Hat Linux (final product). The second, to give all the poor / in-school / just too cheap to buy it / newbies / etc. a way to get ahold of the software. By doing so this way, all the Fedora (aka. Red Hat) questions go to the Fedora 'people' (message board junkies, moderators, mailing lists, etc.) instead of flooding the actual Red Hat 'people' with questions from people who haven't paid for the item. In the world of Linux, you get what you pay for. You can have a fully functioning, perfect OS for free - with only the support you can beg for online, and for some (such as me) that's fine. For others, it's not... and that's cool. Anyway -- look at it this way -- Fedora will have the same goodies in it (more or less) as RH-x-L one version ago did. Besides, I like the blue color scheme! http://fedoraproject.org ''.
 
Old 07-19-2010, 01:55 PM   #19
FreeOSRules
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RHEL not free to download, but free to copy and run?

There seems to be a lot of confusion among users regarding RHEL's availability as free software. This is probably intentional on the part of Red Hat because they want to make money. They can easily make this issue very clear if they wanted to. But their business model has changed since the early 2000's.

Here is the problem. I gather the facts are:

1) The operating system itself (along with all component softwares) inside RHEL is under the GNU Pulic License and thus is free.

2) The source code for RHEL is available and is free.

3) The compiled binary is only available from Red Hat with a subscription or a 30-day trial license because it includes trademark Red Hat logos and names.

4) The license agreement "permits User to run, copy, modify, and redistribute" but also restricts "commercial redistribution of the Programs only if" logos are removed.

How would the above facts apply to this scenario:

You are in a corporate environment and need to run some servers for business needs. You do not have a subscription with Red Hat. But you somehow have a CD with RHEL on it (e.g. from a friend or perhaps the 30-day trial download). Can you legally make a copy of the CD, install RHEL, and run it indefinitely on a production machine? You don't care for support or updates at this time (let's leave the importance of updates off the table for purpose of this discussion). The question is: the OS itself is free, but are you violating trademark copyrights? Are you considered to be "redistributing" the software if you make a copy to use for your business?

This questions is so frustratingly gray, but I think it would help the community to know what RHEL really is. If it is really free, then we may still be able to use it without having to resort to CentOS.

Inputs on this much appreciated.
 
Old 07-19-2010, 02:02 PM   #20
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeOSRules View Post
There seems to be a lot of confusion among users regarding RHEL's availability as free software. This is probably intentional on the part of Red Hat because they want to make money. They can easily make this issue very clear if they wanted to. But their business model has changed since the early 2000's.

Here is the problem. I gather the facts are:

1) The operating system itself (along with all component softwares) inside RHEL is under the GNU Pulic License and thus is free.

2) The source code for RHEL is available and is free.

3) The compiled binary is only available from Red Hat with a subscription or a 30-day trial license because it includes trademark Red Hat logos and names.

4) The license agreement "permits User to run, copy, modify, and redistribute" but also restricts "commercial redistribution of the Programs only if" logos are removed.

How would the above facts apply to this scenario:

You are in a corporate environment and need to run some servers for business needs. You do not have a subscription with Red Hat. But you somehow have a CD with RHEL on it (e.g. from a friend or perhaps the 30-day trial download). Can you legally make a copy of the CD, install RHEL, and run it indefinitely on a production machine? You don't care for support or updates at this time (let's leave the importance of updates off the table for purpose of this discussion). The question is: the OS itself is free, but are you violating trademark copyrights? Are you considered to be "redistributing" the software if you make a copy to use for your business?

This questions is so frustratingly gray, but I think it would help the community to know what RHEL really is. If it is really free, then we may still be able to use it without having to resort to CentOS.

Inputs on this much appreciated.
Well, this is a two-year old thread you've reopened. And the question isn't "gray" at all. Download RHEL and use it to your hearts content. What you DON'T get is updates, patches, support, etc. If you want those, you use a COMMUNITY supported distro, like CentOS.

If you have a large organization, you will pay for support. Why? Because for 24/7/365 servers, you need EVERYTHING supported. You can load Oracle just fine on CentOS...and even if you're paying Oracle for support, they won't help you if you have a problem. Because you are not in a SUPPORTED configuration. They can't support EVERY distro, patch level, hardware, etc...that's why there are clear lists of what's supported. SuSE Enterprise, RHEL, etc., are commercially supported, with teams of engineers working to make sure things like SAN drivers, DB's, etc., all work they way they want to. Community distros often get the benefit of this work, but it may take some time.
 
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:03 PM   #21
FreeOSRules
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RHEL free to copy and use

Thanks, TBOne!! (I don't see a "Thanks" button to click...)

I take from what you're saying that RHEL is absolutely free to copy and install and run on as many machines as we want in a business environment without a license from Red Hat; we just don't get the updates and support that comes with a subscription agreement. The copyright on the trademark logo and Red Hat name is only meant to disallow commercial distribution of the software package with such logos.

This being the case, it makes me feel better about going ahead and using RHEL on our servers.

You're right about paying for support in landscape that truly requires 24x7 uptime. We may go there eventually, but at this time our business unit is not at that volume just yet (hence trying to save money by using free software
 
Old 07-19-2010, 07:06 PM   #22
Timothy Miller
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Your better off then using CentOS, since it's made from RHEL source, but it would at least get updates. Then if at some point you decide you need support, switch over to real RHEL.
 
Old 07-19-2010, 08:38 PM   #23
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeOSRules View Post
Thanks, TBOne!! (I don't see a "Thanks" button to click...)

I take from what you're saying that RHEL is absolutely free to copy and install and run on as many machines as we want in a business environment without a license from Red Hat; we just don't get the updates and support that comes with a subscription agreement. The copyright on the trademark logo and Red Hat name is only meant to disallow commercial distribution of the software package with such logos.

This being the case, it makes me feel better about going ahead and using RHEL on our servers.

You're right about paying for support in landscape that truly requires 24x7 uptime. We may go there eventually, but at this time our business unit is not at that volume just yet (hence trying to save money by using free software
The Thanks button is bottom-right on the posts....

But, you are going down a bad road, here. Timothy Miller hit it right on the head....use CentOS. If you're putting things into production, chances are you'll need additional libraries, packages, etc., and may have to upgrade/downgrade a kernel (for example), to get certain things to work. You CAN'T with RedHat, unless you pay for support.

Load CentOS, and get your proof-of-concept things running on it. When it's time to go 24/7/365, get into a paid-for, supported environment, from your hardware down to the OS. Do NOT skip that step..you may think you're saving $$$, but you're not. You'll be left swinging in the wind the first time there's a problem...and your whole company will be looking at YOU to fix it.
 
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:13 PM   #24
FreeOSRules
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CentOS over RHEL

The "Thanks" button wasn't there for some reason but appeared once I posted my message. I'm using Firefox, by the way.

Thanks to you both, Tim and TBOne. Great advise on planning long-term with supported version of linux. I will make recommendation for CentOS as the platform for our business at this stage.

My initial concern was just legality. It's one thing to have an amateur playing with RHEL for fun; it's another deal when corporate liability is on the line. From Red Hat website itself, you get the sense RHEL is absolutely not free at all, that you can only get Fedora, the community development version. This is different from years ago when RH made it clear you can download their software for free and purchase support separately. Now they make buying a subscription a requirement for getting RHEL.

Then I checked different forums online, and many people flat-out say RHEL is not free, so it appears many folks are confused about whether RHEL can be copied and installed. The discussions tend to get into fine lines about source code, binary, verbatim copy, removing the logos, educational use, trial period, etc. You need a lawyer to sort it all out!

I'm glad you are experienced enough in this field to say clearly there is no "gray" area on this question, that RHEL is free to use, even for business, as long as we don't try to distribute the logo-branded software commercially. Perhaps you have actually dealt with Red Hat sales representatives to know this is the case.

Anyway, having gotten a headache over all that licensing and trademark mess, I'm glad the road with CentOS is much clearer: it's 100% binary compatible with RHEL, it's fully supported, and it's unquestionably free!

When the business grow to a point where we need more automated support for many more servers (both hardware and software), then a Red Hat Network subscription would make sense as part of an overall maintenance budget.

Thanks again!!
 
Old 07-20-2010, 04:42 AM   #25
DrLove73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeOSRules View Post
When the business grow to a point where we need more automated support for many more servers (both hardware and software), then a Red Hat Network subscription would make sense as part of an overall maintenance budget.

Thanks again!!
Just FYI, you will be able to slowly switch from CentOS to RHEL without reinstallation, just by changing several key packages and waiting for next upgrade of the rest of the packages, on the fly (if needed). There are howto's all over the net.
 
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:57 PM   #26
Doogie333
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Lightbulb Enterprise Linux Downloads for All, FREE

Guys,

(ic the threads a bit old)

Just go to edelivery.oracle.com, and you can download Enterprise Linux 6 (and 4, and 5) FREE - no hassles!

Plus, you get Oracle's ASMFS (automatic storage management file system), which is a self-balancing file system - and rocks!

Plus, you get Oracle's Clusterware - FREE for personal use and distribution.

Yes, it's 100% Red Hat compliant...

Cheers!
 
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Old 06-09-2011, 05:40 PM   #27
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doogie333 View Post
Guys,
(ic the threads a bit old)

Just go to edelivery.oracle.com, and you can download Enterprise Linux 6 (and 4, and 5) FREE - no hassles!

Plus, you get Oracle's ASMFS (automatic storage management file system), which is a self-balancing file system - and rocks!
Plus, you get Oracle's Clusterware - FREE for personal use and distribution.
Yes, it's 100% Red Hat compliant...
Yes, the thread is a year old. And Oracle Enterprise Linux is NOT RedHat Enterprise Linux. You can download RHEL for free, no hassles either, and again, with Oracle, you will NOT get updates/support/patches/etc., same as RHEL.
 
Old 06-09-2011, 08:24 PM   #28
Doogie333
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OEL vs RH

TBOne,

Correct. Nice to meet ya'!
Oracle calls their Linux "Enterprise Linux (aka OEL or EL)" as well, but it is 100% bit-wise and functionally the same as "Red Hat Enterprise Linux".
In fact, (Oracle) EL5 still reports "Tikanga", and Oracle will support RH EL or (O)EL the same, and all Oracle Products run on either.
Plus, as I said, you get "Clusterware" (which is awesome and full featured), and "ASMFS" (which rocks solid) on the (Oracle) EL, which also just released EL6!
Also, Oracle's VMware is on there, too! And, if you're using Oracle, (O)EL pre-configures all the Kernel Parms, Oracle User/groups, etc using their "oracle-validated.rpm".
All FREE and easily accessible... at edelivery.oracle.com. Actually, all the base release Oracle software id there for FREE, no hassles download to play with.
No Keys, No Expiration, no Restrictions, Database and Development Tools - including Java Developer Suite (with JDBC) and PL/SQL Developer.
IFF you need Support or Updates, you can download them from many places - or pay like RH, if you need it that bad.
Professionally, I've never needed to update (Oracle) EL - or pay for support - just get the next release!

_Please_ do tell where I can get an untarnished, full-fledged RH5/6 ISO without a hassle?
You'd get lots of karma!
A public or private response with a download URL would be greatly appreciated!

Regards,
Doogie333
 
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Old 06-10-2011, 05:12 AM   #29
DrLove73
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It is not cool at all from Oracle employes to advertise OEL. Not cool at all. Just because of this atitude of the Oracle and Oracle employes, trying to steal away Red Hats customers, Red Hat started to make things harder for the rest of the rebuilders of RHEL. Gready $%%#@$!!! That is one of the reasons CentOS 6 is so late (beside the fact that CentOS team decided to first finish releases 4.9 and 5.6).

For those wanting to "get an untarnished, full-fledged RH5/6 ISO without a hassle", you can download free rebuilds of RHEL caled CentOS and SL(Scientific Linux).
Version 5 is curently now available from both sites/distros.
Version 6 is currently now available from Scientific Linux, but CentOS 6.0 should be available in next 10 to 15 days, it's in it's final stage with all packages complete, leaving distro/ISO's to be cleaned of bugs.

I can confidently say that CentOS distro strongly strives to be 100% binary compatible with RHEL counterpart, bit-for-bit and bug-for-bug. It's set of packages is exactly the same as on RHEL counterpart, not more or less, except for few changed packages because of legal and copyright constrictions (logo's, etc..). It however has additional packages is separate repositories not turned on by default. Curently there is arround 1 million systems, mostly servers, running CentOS 4.x and 5.x.

As for Scientific Linux, it's goal is sligtly different. I can not claim that their distro strives to be 100% binary compatible, but I can not claim they do not. Their goal oriented to helping scietists do they job bettter and easier, so they add and remove certain packages compared to RHEL counterpart. But all-in-all they are very close to exact copy of the RHEL.

Both distros can be fairly easy converted to RHEL, there are procedures published on the net. And both distros (unlike Oracle EL X.x) provide full set of update packages without any cost at all.

And I would not touch Oracle EL even with shity stick (or however exactly saying goes).
 
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Old 06-10-2011, 08:39 AM   #30
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doogie333 View Post
TBOne,
Correct. Nice to meet ya'!
Oracle calls their Linux "Enterprise Linux (aka OEL or EL)" as well, but it is 100% bit-wise and functionally the same as "Red Hat Enterprise Linux". In fact, (Oracle) EL5 still reports "Tikanga", and Oracle will support RH EL or (O)EL the same, and all Oracle Products run on either. Plus, as I said, you get "Clusterware" (which is awesome and full featured), and "ASMFS" (which rocks solid) on the (Oracle) EL, which also just released EL6! Also, Oracle's VMware is on there, too! And, if you're using Oracle, (O)EL pre-configures all the Kernel Parms, Oracle User/groups, etc using their "oracle-validated.rpm". All FREE and easily accessible... at edelivery.oracle.com. Actually, all the base release Oracle software id there for FREE, no hassles download to play with.
+1 for DrLove73.

Everything you mentioned is available and free with RHEL too. It's a 'bit-wise' the same as RHEL, because it essentially IS RHEL, but as you said, set up for Oracle, by Oracle. So unless you actually WANT to run an Oracle database, it's pointless. VMWare, clustering, etc, is all available for pretty much ANY version of Linux, so Oracle enterprise still brings nothing special to the party, UNLESS you want to run Oracle. In which case, it saves you a (very small) amount of time in configuration.
Quote:
No Keys, No Expiration, no Restrictions, Database and Development Tools - including Java Developer Suite (with JDBC) and PL/SQL Developer.
IFF you need Support or Updates, you can download them from many places - or pay like RH, if you need it that bad.
Professionally, I've never needed to update (Oracle) EL - or pay for support - just get the next release!
So, it's (again) EXACTLY THE SAME AS RHEL? RHEL3.x, to 4.x, to 5.x, to 6.x, right? Next versions up, right? Pay for it if you need it, right?
Quote:
_Please_ do tell where I can get an untarnished, full-fledged RH5/6 ISO without a hassle?
You'd get lots of karma!
A public or private response with a download URL would be greatly appreciated!
http://www.redhat.com

Download it from there...not exactly a secret, and it's been there for a LONG time. Did you try to look?

Seriously, don't reopen old threads with junk like this. Sorry, but there's just no reason to advertise Oracle here.

Last edited by TB0ne; 06-10-2011 at 08:43 AM.
 
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