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Old 07-10-2011, 11:40 PM   #61
8-bit
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Distribution: Puppy 431 SCSI, Lucid 520, Slacko, Win 7
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jonyo,
Irregardless of what you may think, it takes a while to set up a forum and for Puppyite to ask for suggestions is a step in the right direction.
To talk bad of a site that is not even up yet is wrong.

This is not an offer to start a flame war.
You seem to be doing that all by yourself.
Give they guy a chance to get his forum set up and then you can judge it as you wish. But keep comments civil.

Also, if you do not like the direction Puppy development is going, there are a lot of other distros out there.
 
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Old 07-11-2011, 05:58 AM   #62
jonyo
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double post

Last edited by jonyo; 07-11-2011 at 07:00 AM.
 
Old 07-11-2011, 06:11 AM   #63
jonyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-bit View Post
jonyo,
Irregardless of what you may think, it takes a while to set up a forum and for Puppyite to ask for suggestions is a step in the right direction.
To talk bad of a site that is not even up yet is wrong.

This is not an offer to start a flame war.
You seem to be doing that all by yourself.
Give they guy a chance to get his forum set up and then you can judge it as you wish. But keep comments civil.
think about what you have just said, then have a look at the link provided by puppyite where he sez "To correct misinformation about functionality of Puppy Linux Forum" and perhaps address your issues there

Quote:
Also, if you do not like the direction Puppy development is going, there are a lot of other distros out there.
no kidding and funny how you folks like to repeat that self describing mantra..

here's the deal, i could care less where the puppy development associated with the murga forums is going, matter of fact i'm thrilled to have an opportunity provided by puppyite to go in another direction, and by the folks here to speak

not to mention that we are all free to make whatever decisions we chose in regards to puppy, other than the only ones y'all like to repeat, that are beyond lame and have been covered in your neck of the woods ad nauseam where they also belong

btw, there are ~ 457,176k members here vs ~ 30k at your playground

what is it about y'all that you have loose lips there and barely peep here?

seems a tad cultish to me

y'all used to pride yourselves with a free speech theme, and yet lately purges seem to be the norm

oh, did i mention others have written about it for years and it's all over the net

perhaps you and your pals might take care of biz in your forums or backyard before even dreaming you might have suggestions of merit elsewhere or to others

sadly mistaken indeed! ..tell us about it johny

Last edited by jonyo; 07-11-2011 at 07:07 PM.
 
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:26 PM   #64
jonyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-bit View Post
jonyo,
Irregardless of what you may think, it takes a while to set up a forum and for Puppyite to ask for suggestions is a step in the right direction.
To talk bad of a site that is not even up yet is wrong.

This is not an offer to start a flame war.
You seem to be doing that all by yourself.
Give they guy a chance to get his forum set up and then you can judge it as you wish. But keep comments civil.
hey puppyite, might you have some idea what this fella is babbling about?

if i said something along the lines that he is talking about, it was certainly not my intent

my comments were meant to address the link that you posted where ridiculous words (despot) and themes were made in regards to you

i thought i was being quite clear in that i was fully supporting your efforts at this stage

also, since i've started babbling here myself, i was thinking of adding a link to my sig, that would direct to the upcoming forum link you have already provided

not really sure how i might title it ..maybe ~ "the new puppy"

lemme know, i can leave it but am open to what you'd prefer either way

it is also nice to see that at the very least thus far, your efforts have caused massive changes over at the other long known dysfunctional playground, that should have or ideally been addressed years ago

i am also convinced that in their attempts to fix what was clearly broken from the get go, it will only benefit others, so it is good to have them around

they haven't figured out that you can't do a wrong thing right and i highly doubt they ever will, it is quite funny watching their lame attempts at proving it

not to bother folks here too much with links to whatever is going on there, i don't expect that would be much of an issue in some area of your forums

forums really ought to concern themselves with whatever is in their forums, that can easily be linked to by anyone

their forums might as well be a minefield of available goods which i suppose they are trying to address, unfortunately it goes back years and there really is no fix

i think you are well aware of these issues and is prob one of the main reasons to have started another forum, that will be the opposite of what was, and in one full swoop, address the prior sorry ongoing long term themes

had a look at the ~ win vs linux thread here and imagine, folks are having a healthy friendly discussion about it, where i've picked up a thing or two already

sure enuff, the puppy root bugaboo has reared it's ugly head but of course it was pointless trying to address that in the other place, i suspect that issue will be addressed quick with the new direction so that whatever is released at distrowatch doesn't become yet another puppy rootfest, and do nothing but mostly take away from whatever puppy is putting out

the fact that it has gone on for so long is just beyond lame

get your act together to anyone out there, cos someone else surely will and others already have

ps dunno about you but it sure is amusing to see the admin starting to say something lol, i was beginning to wonder if he even existed because he had so little to say

about the only communications i ever saw there to the members were short words with ~ "it's like this" themes that i suppose some understood, looks like a few of 'em have private chats once in awhile on the side

not to mention that he rarely speaks let alone elaborate to even attempt explaining further, if you're into that, you'll fit right in

i suppose that is one way of going about a forum but my suggestion is it is at best very limiting, but certainly has no appeal to me and i have no doubt most, if given an alternative

I expect your forums will be much different and inclusive, positive with direction and focus, with equal treatment to all

here's something short for the other folks or anyone to chew on,
control freaks actually control nothing where there is real freedom

freedom of speech is also relative

edit - here's some fresh commentary from over there that i fully support and suggest for the new direction or forums, "Info is scattered now in the forum/wikki, wikka and other sources maybe.
There should be a unique place to start off."

only prob for them is i also remember the same stuff being discussed there 5 years ago, they might figure out one day that it doesn't work that way and you can't have something like that both ways

surely the same mistakes will be corrected from here on in the new direction

Last edited by jonyo; 07-13-2011 at 07:45 AM.
 
Old 07-13-2011, 01:17 AM   #65
8-bit
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Distribution: Puppy 431 SCSI, Lucid 520, Slacko, Win 7
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jonyo,
As strange as it may sound, I do support some of your thoughts.
As a for instance, Barry created a Puppy ISO that he could not get SeaMonkey 2.0 to work on and so used SeaMonkey 1.1.8.
Also, some long standing bugs in Puppy never seem to get addressed.
New versions are made and released with those bugs still present.
I am not a developer of any Puppy Distro and I assume you are not either. So the best we can do is report bugs and suggestions for improvement and hope they get noticed.
The developer that has seemed to have the most support in debugging his Distro and actually listening to suggestions seems to be Playdayz and his loosely based ubuntu derivatives.


Also, as you may be able to tell by my posts, I was never very good at expressing myself in typed content.
But that does not stop me from trying.
I also know that in the years you spent on the other forum, you helped many users with problems.
kudo's to you on that!
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 07-13-2011, 10:20 AM   #66
jonyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-bit View Post
jonyo,
As strange as it may sound, I do support some of your thoughts.
As a for instance, Barry created a Puppy ISO that he could not get SeaMonkey 2.0 to work on and so used SeaMonkey 1.1.8.
Also, some long standing bugs in Puppy never seem to get addressed.
New versions are made and released with those bugs still present.
I am not a developer of any Puppy Distro and I assume you are not either. So the best we can do is report bugs and suggestions for improvement and hope they get noticed.
if that works for you or anyone else, have fun and do your thing, waste of time for me

yup, when it is all brand new, who cares about the odd thing here and there, doesn't take long though to start wondering about blatant bs, even as a noob

getting folks started is one thing and i would say a most important part of any distro, pup is one of the best at it, maintaining folks is another story though and more important is what kinda folks are you maintaining

that's what happens when whoever you are, you operate in a vacuum, clearly though, wonders can be achieved, but, big deal, can they be maintained and even move forward

remember linspire? or dsl?
Quote:
The developer that has seemed to have the most support in debugging his Distro and actually listening to suggestions seems to be Playdayz and his loosely based ubuntu derivatives.
can't say i know much about him or other new folks but as far as i'm concerned he (or anyone) is mostly wasting his time and talents over there just by being associated with the forums that are well known to others, regardless of the current distrowatch ranking

hey, but if it works for him or anyone else, go for it

whatever you folks think about puppyite or me, and whoever is doing what over there messin with you folks, i can only say with certainty that i have nothing to do with it, though some have stated it is me, there and here

you folks have made a legion of enemies over the years of which you are all mostly in denial of, and reaping what you sowed

i just happened to notice when i was there recently there were scenarios with the studio dev for example, no doubt there are others, and i could think of others from the past

i could easily link to specifics and examples in your forums, can't be bothered with it here and not my prob anymore, you folks made your bed and have to sleep in or deal with it

dunno who is doing what over there or here, but i doubt it will stop and is no surprise to me
Quote:
Also, as you may be able to tell by my posts, I was never very good at expressing myself in typed content.
But that does not stop me from trying.
can't say i noticed you much or remember from before
Quote:
I also know that in the years you spent on the other forum, you helped many users with problems.
kudo's to you on that!
might have a look at what one of your heroes aitch had to say about that in your neck of the woods there but thx,

ya know, you look around to learn and you see quick easy answers that can help someone else and you often end up picking up some stuff yourself

i call it win win

hey, there were plenty of great folks there at the time as i'm sure there still are

giving back is what happens and is easy when good folks (many now gone of course) bend over backwards to help out new folks, too bad ya don't deal with your problem children or fools though

you folks wanna hang on to members that are actually either blatantly working against you or even primarily in their own self interests, whatever that might be, be my guest

here's my personal bottom line, i have no use for murga or any desire to be associated with him or his forums whatsoever

good for a laugh tho

finally, ended up just recently stumbling on some posts where you folks, or some at least have big problems with puppyite in regards to perfection

all i can say about him is i've seen him somewhat in action recently over there, and my wife is a perfectionist, so i have plenty of insight into that

while i wondered where he was coming from in some of what he was going on about, i had no doubt about others with whom i've interacted with to some or a greater extent in the past, before he came into the picture and i was mostly long gone

they are of course murga boys, who are a complete and total turn off at best, for me

hey johny, folks messing with you or your forums are mistaken?

ya sure, tell us some more stories, or why not even try speaking up once in awhile, some of us would love to hear more, or at least something of what you might have to say

btw, there's plenty of bs there already..

as a user or a participant in any forum, i now know well best to find out from the get go, what or who you might be getting involved with

oh and

"And please save me the self-righteous comments, if you had to deal with the cr*p I receiving right now your patience would be wearing thin too."

ya sure johny, tell us about it, oh, i see, literally yet another one of your "take it or leave" it blurbs

and gee, whodo right there next with some supporting comments, what a surprise

my suggestion is it only one of many ways to run a supporting forum for a distro, but one that leads to an inevitable implosion from within, regardless of what it may have achieved, or sought to achieve

cheers

Last edited by jonyo; 07-13-2011 at 09:24 PM.
 
Old 07-13-2011, 09:05 PM   #67
puppyite
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2009
Location: United States, Midwest, Central Time Zone
Distribution: Puppy 4.1.2 - 5.2.5
Posts: 140

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 24
Iím working round the clock to bring the Puppy Linux Forum online. Itís an exciting project. Iíve marshaled everything I know about forums / web design and incorporated it into this new venture.

Drawing from that knowledge I determined my first goal must be to create a venue that addresses every ill Iíve seen elsewhere. Doubtless everyone reading this knows exactly what I mean and what I used as a model for how not to run a forum.

The Main Mission Statement & Rules along with a highly organized and carefully thought out set of priorities means that all contingencies have been considered both in terms of site design and overall philosophy.

The Main Mission Statement & Rules is the most thoughtful, comprehensive and philosophically oriented document I have ever written. It was the first and most challenging piece of work I undertook during this project. Revision 1 represents 8 hours and 27 minutes of editing time. Revision 2 represents 5 hours and 55 minutes of editing time. It represents my maximum effort and covers every aspect of forum etiquette, hereís a passage from that document:

Quote:
Membership Equality
  • All members receive equal treatment in this forum. The only exception I may make to this rule might be to make accommodations to developers as it relates to forum structure or features.
  • Favoritism concerning rule enforcement will not be shown regardless of join date or post count.
  • You cannot garner favor with me either by donating money or by public demonstrations of appreciation concerning me, moderators or this forum.
The PLUG component of the Puppy Linux Forum is as simple and elegant as I can make it. Itíll be powered by forum members with only a slight assist in terms of guidance from myself, other than that it will be self propelled.

The real test of my creation will come when the site goes live and ďthe rubber meets the roadĒ. I wish I could show you how much work is completed but at this point in time there is nothing the public can see other than this thread, my infrequent posts in it and the excerpt above. I hope everyone reading this will be patient long enough to wait and see the end result, it will be worth it, Iím absolutely certain!

Last edited by puppyite; 07-13-2011 at 09:08 PM.
 
Old 07-13-2011, 09:39 PM   #68
jonyo
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Talking

it will be interesting for sure, mentioned to some folks that i saw what you had to say about pup, that i've seen a few times but not elaborated on

~ it is the best distro ever period

gonna have a look at gentoo soon for the first (i think) time

had a look at their philosophy which i found sent a very positive message

here it is for comparison

http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/philosophy.xml
(if posting this is a prob someone pls let me know)

1. The Philosophy of Gentoo

Quote:
Every user has work they need to do. The goal of Gentoo is to design tools and systems that allow a user to do that work as pleasantly and efficiently as possible, as they see fit. Our tools should be a joy to use, and should help the user to appreciate the richness of the Linux and free software community, and the flexibility of free software. This is only possible when the tool is designed to reflect and transmit the will of the user, and leave the possibilities open as to the final form of the raw materials (the source code.) If the tool forces the user to do things a particular way, then the tool is working against, rather than for, the user. We have all experienced situations where tools seem to be imposing their respective wills on us. This is backwards, and contrary to the Gentoo philosophy.

Put another way, the Gentoo philosophy is to create better tools. When a tool is doing its job perfectly, you might not even be very aware of its presence, because it does not interfere and make its presence known, nor does it force you to interact with it when you don't want it to. The tool serves the user rather than the user serving the tool.

The goal of Gentoo is to strive to create near-ideal tools. Tools that can accommodate the needs of many different users all with divergent goals. Don't you love it when you find a tool that does exactly what you want to do? Doesn't it feel great? Our mission is to give that sensation to as many people as possible.

Daniel Robbins
Previous Chief Architect
starts right out addressing the user showing what is important
Quote:
Every user has work they need to do.
i like this part
Quote:
This is only possible when the tool is designed to reflect and transmit the will of the user,
hmmm, some folks i knew could care less about the above position in regards to users, matter of fact got all hot and bothered about it, i guess someone has it backwards

ahh, the beauty of options

this part also jumped out at me and i would call it a strong closing statement
Quote:
Our mission is to give that sensation to as many people as possible.
this part jumps out at me in your post, thx for the update
Quote:
The PLUG component of the Puppy Linux Forum is as simple and elegant as I can make it. It’ll be powered by forum members with only a slight assist in terms of guidance from myself, other than that it will be self propelled.
in particular this part
Quote:
powered by forum members - it will be self propelled
have a look here too, i was quite blown away as soon as the page opened up and then looking around
(thx to dalek for the gentoo info)
http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml

Last edited by jonyo; 07-13-2011 at 10:22 PM.
 
Old 07-14-2011, 07:59 AM   #69
jonyo
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Quote:
addresses every ill I’ve seen elsewhere
nope
Quote:
Doubtless everyone reading this knows exactly what I mean and what I used as a model for how not to run a forum.
that forum has plenty of support and tons would totally disagree, diff strokes for diff folks
Quote:
all contingencies have been considered
nope
Quote:
covers every aspect of forum etiquette
nope

no such thing as every, everyone, doubtless, exactly, all et al

folks will see what comes out and dissect it inside out, others will know right away or quick if they are in or out

THEY will decide one way or another

got tons of questions myself but not gonna get into it here

i would encourage folks to comment right away on what they see, good, bad, or ugly

but keeping on topic with

"Puppy Linux Users Group - Suggestions Requested"

any suggestions?

edit - just thought of my first questions

what are the main points and goals trying to be achieved here? i would like to see something and in the fewest words

as i understand it from discussions elsewhere, there is a desire to be associated with ubuntu which i have no issues with, i am in favor of that myself

Is that set in stone though? just ubuntu? and in what way?

what exactly IS set in stone here?

i'd like to know what the name of the distro is or will be?

even having puppy in the name might make or break it for me

hey puppyite, dunno about you but johny the dict has moved aitch up the ladder and now aitch newly empowered and invigorated is yappin more than ever

what a pair lol, one validates the other and 2 peas in a pod

amazing what happens when you put folks in a box and for some reason they happily go along for whatever the ride is, with BIG TALK that you only see there

Last edited by jonyo; 07-14-2011 at 03:02 PM.
 
Old 07-14-2011, 10:14 PM   #70
jonyo
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just looked over the old stuff here thought this post fits right in

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...3/#post4376026

hey puppyite, the nice thing about not much action or chit chat right now here on this is you can pretty much do what you like, sometimes that's the best way to focus and get something done and it takes the heat off what you offer

hey, no input then no role

no expectations from anyone and you can pretty much do whatever you like, anyway that suits you

take anything i'm yappin about here on this as nothing more than thoughts, opinions, desires of 1 member with great interest

bound to be plenty of chit chat, thoughts, interests, desires and major differences playing out right from the get go sooner or later

puppyite wrote:
Quote:
My idea to go forward with a PLUG was inspired by a thread started by a dev (WhoDo) at the Puppy forum titled A single voice to speak for Puppy. If you read it you’ll see he made a public call for others to make it reality.

At this point in time my idea of how to implement a PLUG is so new as to be little more than a daydream, RE: I want to do it but that’s about all I know. All I can say is that I don’t see it as a forum per se. For this particular task I don’t think a forum would cut it, forums tend to be too chaotic. I think it will take a different type of mechanism to gather and collate input from users concerning their wants and needs about the Future of Puppy Linux.

When I made this thread I didn’t expect to be calling for suggestions but now that I think about it why not? I’m open to any and all suggestions about what type of site might fit the bill. Does anyone here have any ideas about how to tackle this challenge? Maybe someone knows of a website I could use as a model or starting point? What say you?
for new folks who is puppyite?
http://www.puppylinuxfaq.org/puppyit...-puppyite.html
Quote:
I never stop thinking about how I might better serve you
then you require no sleep, absolute words mostly bite, particularly the more that might go with it
http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/...and-white.html

Last edited by jonyo; 07-15-2011 at 06:01 AM.
 
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:58 AM   #71
puppyite
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Registered: Nov 2009
Location: United States, Midwest, Central Time Zone
Distribution: Puppy 4.1.2 - 5.2.5
Posts: 140

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 24
I’ve addressed every contingency I can think of, ditto for ills and forum etiquette or forum policies. If anyone is in doubt about the problem(s) I’m trying to remedy or doesn’t see a problem then they might not be able to appreciate my solution.

About suggestions: Any I may receive now will go into a file for possible consideration after site goes live.

That post where I talk about how this all started seems (is) a lifetime ago. Days and nights are starting to merge. My life is on hold until this project goes live. I’m so close now, my goal is in sight, I sense victory and no force on earth or elsewhere can deny me.

Last edited by puppyite; 07-15-2011 at 06:00 AM.
 
Old 07-15-2011, 06:04 AM   #72
jonyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppyite View Post
, I sense victory and no force on earth or elsewhere can deny me.
i expect there will be plenty of obstacles, perhaps you might elaborate?

makes me think of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBksHaTQCbU

this might be better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx7XNb3Q9Ek
The Ride Of The Valkyries

Last edited by jonyo; 07-15-2011 at 06:24 AM.
 
Old 07-15-2011, 06:20 AM   #73
puppyite
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2009
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Distribution: Puppy 4.1.2 - 5.2.5
Posts: 140

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 24
Only my own physical limitations could stop me now. I’d have to fall down dead and that’s not likely.

I need to move on, regrettably I have no time for posting here.

Last edited by puppyite; 07-15-2011 at 06:21 AM.
 
Old 07-15-2011, 06:38 AM   #74
jonyo
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do what you have to do and i can't say i've read or am aware of much negativity around your FAQ, which is something i and others have to go by, all i've seen is mostly raves

i can assure you that issues will not go away and you will be taken to task

i don't see any reason to rush or panic at this point seeing as there hasn't been much input here

putting something out without input is one thing, with input is another

but if nothing develops here, well by all means put it out

Last edited by jonyo; 07-15-2011 at 06:43 AM.
 
Old 07-15-2011, 07:09 AM   #75
puppyite
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Distribution: Puppy 4.1.2 - 5.2.5
Posts: 140

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 24
Wagner, one of my favorites classical artists and a great man in his own right, IMO.

Now playing: Beach Boys, Donít Worry Baby, Made in USA
 
  


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