well technically, its the instructions that are the key. You don't write instructions in HTML, you simply describe data. Another example would be XML = Markup XSL = programming.

You're looking at one.

... which are instructions for the browser on how to render the data...

Of course i am

good point. but is it programming?

yes i do know the difference. i even argued my reasoning for what i said. reverting to such personal attacks is unecessary in this post, so please keep it to yourself. this post is about the languages not the credability of the person making the argument. if you cant make an argument then dont post.

Indeed you are. Not only do I understand registers and accumulators, I understand the underlying electrical circuitry of them. Most programmers couldn't tell you what a flip-flop is, but I know the difference between a D flip-flop and a JK flip-flop

I do not consider Markup as programming, but normally I do not do
much programming using transistors - the nearest I get is using an
inter-faker. This is normally debugging the cable rather than programming
per-se.

It is a long time since you had to burn fuses to program a chip. However,
the question in hand still seems to be whether scripting languages
constitute programming lanuages. In the purist sense, awk scripts are
programs. However as has already been pointed out, there are more
than one level/class of programming. I would not consider sed, or
find -exec grep mypattern {} \; as programming proper - but I would
consider the perl regular expression logic as more or less programming.

In one way, scripting and programming are simply synonyms. They both
perform a sequence of tasks that would be tedious to perform manually.

Oh, hang on... That means that anything that tells a computer to do
something is programming. (Especially if you need to type in the first
few instructions using octal dip switches, in order to stream the tape
boot program.)

Paragon

So giving instructions to a PLC is that programing?

Or setting channels on your TV?

Or regulating a paper mill?

Or organizing molecules to calculate something?

Or putting together a logical switch with one NAND?

Okay, now for a meta-debate: why does it matter if <insert activity here> is considered programming by anyone in particular? If someone says they have programming background, simply ask for more detail.

lets not get too far fetched shall we.

what about "programming" a VCR? if aware (if green-light == !dim) then proceed ..oh wait.. thats programming someone to program a vcr .. usually i would consider programming a vcr 'configuring' but, now im looking at C code like gcc is a vcr thats going to do some selective recording ..

yeah, i know, i should read the whole thread before i post anything .. im not claiming to be the first person to bring anything up though

Eureka! Programming is being aware of what the instructions do, and
choosing them yourself as appropriate to the task you want performing.

Ergo, programming is not taking someone elses code and running it. If
you modify it and chop and change then this would be programming.

Still not sure whether typing in a program from a magazine (unmodified)
is programming. Now putting C code through a VCR (using the interfaces
provided) would definitely be a programming feat.

Paragon

Scripting and programming is the same thing. Scripting is mostly associated with something being interpreted while programming is normally associated with being compiled and standalone (doesn't have to be interpreted). Either way, they both do the same thing: you make something to have it do something.

That said, HTML, XML, and other similar formats are nothing like scripting or programming. Its just a way of formatting plain text.

(Speaking of putting C code through a VCR.. I wonder if you could exploit a flaw in a TV's close captioning (or teletext) system and make it change channels or something... but that would be insane!!! :P)

Just my

Yes, you format text, so some system can interpret it and render it in a browser (html). Bares a lot of similarity to a C program that writes "Hello, World" in a console window.

HTML might be simply formatting, it doesn't have decision structures, but like other programming fields, you end up writing code that is used by some computer system to achieve some result, be it just displaying your resume online, or outputing the results of a calculation in a console window, or building a GUI app.