computer languages? limits? help!
 

I know that limits exhist in many computer languages.. maybe all.. (hope not) I want to learn programming but I don't know where to start or what language. I 'DO" know what I want from a language.. wich is to have as little limits as possible and as much freedom as possible, (free as a.. penguin!) even going down to binaries. I don't want to start learning something now, waste all that time and later, (too late) find restrictions that force me to invest alot of more time in learning another language, that would be too "innefficient". please help me!.. sujjestions links... I don't care how long a reply, explain away please.

you could start with Python and then move-up to C++...

http://www.python.org/doc/Summary.html

http://www.research.att.com/~bs/C++.html

they are free as in freedom, and they are multi-platform...

just a thought...

Each languages has been developed for some applications. You should define what you want to do first!

Anything? True that C/C++ can help... Anything+multiplatform? Try java... You want to do sth with files, why not shell?

The guy that could answer 'the best programming language is ...' is a fool.

EDIT: the contradiction with the previous post about the multiplaform skill of C++ is due to the fact I passed one day to make a C++ code written under windows compliant to my compiler...

Forget about inefficiency and limitations. If you've never programmed before, you'll have more than enough on your plate to worry about. Pick something that's relatively kind to newbies, like a variant of Basic. If you don't know anything about programming, then for you the "limits" of a language is meaningless as you won't get anywhere near them without studying that language for years.

Anyway, the basic concepts of programming are the same for most (nearly all) programming languages. Anyone who's studied two or three programming languages can easily pick up more. What I mean is, you're not going to be wasting your time to learn Basic (well, maybe if you pick visual basic ;)) because the concepts you will learn apply to C, Java, PHP, Perl, and a myriad other languages. It's just that these concepts are easier to get a handle on in Basic.

If you're seriously after a language with few limitations, I'd go with C++. But do not learn it as a first language. (Oh, and when you do get around to learning it, don't believe it when people say you should learn C first - those people are "let's pretend this is still C" programmers, not C++ programmers).

[edit]Oh, and if you're at all serious about programming, you're going to end up learning more than one language. No language does every job well. It's not "wasted effort" to learn more than one language; in fact, it's very very common. But, as I said before, most languages are based on the same fundamental principles so it gets easier to learn new languages the more you already know.[/edit]

I agree with SoulSkorpion, once a programmer, always a programmer.
The coding might change, but once you learn, it starts the ball rolling. I would recomend python (tried it, looked cool, never went in depth), java (I am learning, I only failed the cert by 10 percent.. and I picked the wrong cert :rolleyes: ) and C++ because you can learn C++ or Java very easily after picking up the first. And It's no biggy to learn another language, so If you do find a 'limit' then no sweat.

Pick one. Sleep on your hardest problems. Talk it out, even to a non programmer. It helps. Let it plague you. Come to LQ for help. Just have fun and mess with it, soon you will be able to do impresive and important stuff really easily.

good luck!
titanium_geek

anything you wanna add?
 

Thank you all for you help. I intend to make programming my life.. full dedication... and occupation. Seeing how there isn't ONE computer language makes me believe that there isn't any "one" language that can do it all.. the closest thing i can think of that comes close is "binary" wich is a part of every language. I imagine that they're pretty much all the same thing.. just different flavors but there should be something that can in a sense, be all flavors... or any mix of flavors in any amount etc. etc. I guess I want too much... I'll probably end up learning binary ... or just quitting and stop reaching for things that will require too much an effort to achieve... don't mind me, just a bit frustrated. I'll do some more research with what you have all told me.. to see which way is to most logical regardless of how difficult. the right way is the only way. later.

'the best programming language is ...' C++.
I started out with java, it pretty much makes you program object oriented, which is apparently The Coolest thing in the World at the moment. After Java I learned C++, which I like a lot.

Re: anything you wanna add?
 

*chuckle* not likely :D. Once you learn a bit more about how computers work, you'll understand why this statement is a bit silly.

These two attitudes are incompatible. If you're serious about making a career out of programming, you'd better get used to the idea of having to put in effort. Programming is a constant learning process, and while it does get easier over time it always requires effort. (Discipline too, if you want to write good programs rather than mush, but it's a little early for that now).

It was meant to be a bit humorous
 

when I said i'll probably learn binary.. I also said it to demonstrate how much hard work I would be willing to go through. (if I wind up choosing to learn programming) I know binary isn't used like languages.. and that it would take a millenia to write a program using 0's and 1's.

I'm going to have to go with c++ but as far as starting out with something simpler first. I'm not exactly sure how to go about that. I know the general direction (a north south east west general type) but not the route.. or highways to use to get there. thanks again!

Re: It was meant to be a bit humorous
 

The thing is, that binary is not that hard. I learned binary at the age of something like 9 thanks to a geek much older then me. So you see, the binary-system itself is not that hard. It's just counting in another way.

Binary in the world of computers is more about how all these colors, texts, etc is converted to binary and then how this binary-code is converted to electric signals that runs through the whole computer.


But back to the languages. You cannot find a language that is almost completely without limits and learn it right away. Though, C++ can be a first language (when I started my computer-school many students had not done anything on a computer except surfing the web and they started all their computer-learning-process by learning C++. Hard but possible).

Although, you should try something like BASIC or Python first. When you learn C++ you should learn C right away since they are rather simular and it's easy to go from one to another. Perl is also a good choice.

A pretty easy language is actually PHP since it is not that "close" to the hardware itself as those other languages are, but it is a language and it would give you a good start from where to learn more languages.

Btw, maby you have understood that one language is not enough and will probably never be. Programming is a constructive form of art, dedication and passion are necessary or you will quit.

Good luck! :)

/MezzyMeat

it just would have been cool if....
 

I just wish there were a language that everyone would accept because it's based as much on logic as binary is... that way it would be much more organised, but I guess the variety and change.. or.. "chaos" is the only true order. later!

Where to start?
 

Binary is platform dependent, but then again so is C, C++, VB, Basic, etc. Java bypasses this problem with the Virtual Machine, but you pay for it will a loss of speed. Every programming language has a task that it is design to tackle, and a field in which it excels.
LISP for List Processing, SQL for Database Manipulation, Assembler or C for games, C++ almost anywhere, and VB.NET for M$ ;)

I'd say that Java is an easy place to start, and once you've got to grips with that. A move to C or C++ is a relatively easy move. I also found learning Haskel, then SQL a good thing to build my understanding of Data Manipulation and Information Processing.

The only thing that matters through is that you start somewhere.

You must start somewhere. Stop whining. :)
Pick one, you'd be surprised that even after learning one language (even if it is gasp! html) the next one is much easier to pick up. You've seen those "teach yourself in 24 hours" books... we all know that newbs take 24 days/weeks to learn, but the pro's actually do take 24 hours....

In summary: the binary you learn on your fingers in computer class is cool and useful, but really, you will find that the limits are not that severe or even imagined in the programming language of choice.

I say (if you're in highschool) take a AP computer science. very useful.

titanium_geek