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Old 05-30-2005, 01:18 AM   #16
jery_wang2002
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The statement on the website is very clear.

I was not talking about the trademark. No question about that. Every statement on the paragraphs is correct.

But I was replying someone who said that Mepis put non-GPL control center in the CD.

This creates a lot of confusion for me. And I guess to a lot of people.

So we were talking different thing.

By putting non-GPL control center, I cannot get the source code. Hence I cannot strip the logo/tradmemark. Hence I cannot make a derivative work on the CD. Hence, from practicality point of view, the CD does not give freedom. In fact, it binds me, no different from M$$.

One thing that I am not sure is, whether without the control center, the CD is still functional. I guess not, since most probably, you cannot even install to HD. In other words, if I am interested in improving what the CD has, I have to go to Linux From Scratch.

It is a kind of evolution from GPL to non-GPL (proprietary).



Quote:
Originally posted by aysiu
Why debate about all this when the answer is right on the website:
 
Old 05-30-2005, 01:36 AM   #17
craigevil
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Just another reason to stick with Debian GNU/Linux.

"Debian GNU/Linux is a strong supporter of free software. Since many different licenses are used on software, a set of guidelines, the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG) were developed to come up with a reasonable definition of what constitutes free software. Only software that complies with the DFSG is allowed in the main distribution of Debian."
http://www.debian.org/intro/free


Debian Will Remain 100% Free Software
We promise to keep the Debian GNU/Linux Distribution entirely free software. As there are many definitions of free software, we include the guidelines we use to determine if software is "free" below. We will support our users who develop and run non-free software on Debian, but we will never make the system depend on an item of non-free software.

"Free Redistribution
The license of a Debian component may not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license may not require a royalty or other fee for such sale."
http://www.debian.org/social_contract
 
Old 05-30-2005, 08:56 PM   #18
jery_wang2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by craigevil
Just another reason to stick with Debian GNU/Linux.

"Debian GNU/Linux is a strong supporter of free software. Since many different licenses are used on software, a set of guidelines, the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG) were developed to come up with a reasonable definition of what constitutes free software. Only software that complies with the DFSG is allowed in the main distribution of Debian."
http://www.debian.org/intro/free


Debian Will Remain 100% Free Software
We promise to keep the Debian GNU/Linux Distribution entirely free software. As there are many definitions of free software, we include the guidelines we use to determine if software is "free" below. We will support our users who develop and run non-free software on Debian, but we will never make the system depend on an item of non-free software.

"Free Redistribution
The license of a Debian component may not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license may not require a royalty or other fee for such sale."
http://www.debian.org/social_contract
Totally agree and I support Debian 110%. But some people do not practice 'giving back' to the society.
 
Old 05-31-2005, 12:57 AM   #19
FunTimes
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Quote:
Totally agree and I support Debian 110%. But some people do not practice 'giving back' to the society.
Like making a distro that is based 99 % on the work of debian then adding a few config tools and then not share. These greedy distrubtors should be grateful that debian does not run itself the same way they run themself. Mepis would be pretty useless without the debian repositories.
 
Old 05-31-2005, 03:13 AM   #20
jery_wang2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by FunTimes
Like making a distro that is based 99 % on the work of debian then adding a few config tools and then not share. These greedy distrubtors should be grateful that debian does not run itself the same way they run themself. Mepis would be pretty useless without the debian repositories.
The -not share- is done in such a way that it is difficult/incovenience to use the 99% without 1%. This is called vendor locking.

In Micro$oft case, it is totally fair for them to lock the user based on the 100% effort they have put in.
 
Old 05-31-2005, 07:34 AM   #21
hkctr
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To begin, this is not a bash of Mepis, the distro nor a plug for Ubuntu, but the topic of this post is precisely why I do not use Mepis. I have the same question(s) that many here have and I do not like the answers (or lack of) from Mepis.

Ubuntu philosophy

Debian and Unbuntu

A clear policy similar to Ubuntu's is what Mepis needs, IMHO to really grow. If not, Mepis has all that is required to become the next Xandros or Libranet (both debian based and for profit). Both are good distros that have a loyal, albeit small following. Good luck Warren, the choice is yours.
 
Old 06-01-2005, 10:25 AM   #22
Genesee
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Quote:
Originally posted by aysiu

2. Can I sell MEPIS Linux CDs?
The SimplyMEPIS CD is released under a GPL collective work license which theoretically allows you to make and sell copies.
not speaking as a lawyer or an expert on the GPL, but the statement above seems more than a little disingenuous. there is nothing "theoretical" about the GPL provision allowing selling copies, it is perfectly explicit:

Quote:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
(excerpt)

1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's source code as you receive it, in any medium, provided that you conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty; keep intact all the notices that refer to this License and to the absence of any warranty; and give any other recipients of the Program a copy of this License along with the Program.

You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy, and you may at your option offer warranty protection in exchange for a fee.
again, a response from the Mepis organization would be welcomed.
 
Old 06-01-2005, 03:38 PM   #23
FunTimes
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Quote:
again, a response from the Mepis organization would be welcomed.
I think you will be hard pressed to get a response from them. And if you try thin on the semi-official mepislovers forum, you will probably result in another locked thread.
Mepis is a very good distro it is just a shame that when someone critizes it is considered flamimg.
 
Old 06-01-2005, 08:22 PM   #24
jery_wang2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by FunTimes
Mepis is a very good distro it is just a shame that when someone critizes it is considered flamimg.
There are many out there that is as good as Mepis if not better. As a matter of fact, Ubuntu is far away in the list as no. 1 distro in Distrowatch.com. Mandriva is no. 2 and Mepis is no. 3.

I agree though that Mepis is very good. But how good is good, it depends on individiual. I think Ubuntu is still much better.

And if we talk about performance, Gentoo and/or Slackware or FreeBSD is the fastest.

So, if Mepis doesn't play nice with the comunity, there are better ones to switch to.
 
Old 06-01-2005, 09:52 PM   #25
AdrianTM
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Quote:
Originally posted by FunTimes
These greedy distrubtors should be grateful that debian does not run itself the same way they run themself.
Greedy distrubutors? Do you really think that someone (Warren) makes a fortune from selling Mepis which by the way if FREE to download? So basically if someone pays for Mepis it's more like a donation rather that payment (even Debian charges for CDs by the way).

Warren always thanks anyone who contributed and Debian developers are first in line -- please read any official announcement from mepis.org So please stop spreading venom with expressions like: "greedy developers"

Just remember: Mepis is not backed up by a millionaire, charging $9.99 per CD (when you can have it for free or less) is not going to make Warren a millionaire.

Also, helping people moving from Windows to Linux and tweaking Debian and making it friendly is a contribution to Linux and Debian. I know many people who are not afraid anymore of Debian and it's geeky aura because of Mepis. Mepis has also very good configurations and scripts that anyone can use.

Quote:
Originally posted by FunTimes

Mepis is a very good distro it is just a shame that when someone critizes it is considered flamimg.
When someone calls somebody else who works hard "greedy" I'd call that flaming.

When I see so many people that are not using Mepis going out of their way to denigrate the distro and people that work on it I call that flaming. Why aren't you posting on Ubuntu forums or whatever distro's forums you use and stop giving us a hard time? I don't go posting of Ubuntu forums or others to say that they suck or their approach is bad or whatever, or that they should do this or that.

Don't like it -- don't use it. There are more than 300 distros, plenty for your personality, whatever that is, and for your political and technical preferences.

Personally I think that most of the distros are good I tried over 30 and most of them worked good or very good for me. I still prefer Mepis as many other people.

Don't worry if you like something else that's nothing wrong... nobody will judge you, please stop though the proselytism -- that gets kind of old after you spend a time on Linux forums. Beside, anyone over here should get out of the house more and see that there are bigger things and fights in the world.

Since this is a forum about Mepis people should have some common sense and decency and let Mepis users help people who have questions about it.

We can also debate what's good and what's bad about it, but please stop calling names, ok? It's not nice to call people greedy. Especially when those people work hard and they offer their work for free.

Last edited by AdrianTM; 06-01-2005 at 09:54 PM.
 
Old 06-02-2005, 01:15 AM   #26
FunTimes
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Did I miss the answer to the orginal post?
 
Old 06-02-2005, 03:01 AM   #27
Lil_Deb
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Quote:
Did I miss the answer to the orginal post?
Nope, and my bet is that there is not going to be a straight answer for a while. Mepis L.L.C. has implemented an unofficial policy of not directly answering any question that does not specifically address hardware compatibility issues.

This was not always the case with Mepis, but Warren has nearly disappeared from any community involvement in the last year.

Interestingly, the latest Mepis release , SimplyMepis-Lite, is not available to the public. A subscription fee is required to download the .iso test-release. This is (to my knowledge) a first for Mepis L.L.C.

Appearances suggest to me that Warren's intentions are now strictly focused on creating the framework of a commercially viable product. I believe that Warren will not license the Mepis installer under the GNU GPL.

While I do appreciate Warren's right to make a financial return on his investment, I will not be surprised if Warren soon crosses paths with GNU or the Debian Community and it is not going to be pretty.

As it stands currently, Warren's inclusion of the highly non-free Adobe Acrobat Reader (that includes Adobe promotional advertising) in SimplyMepis 3.3.1 sets precedent for the direction in which Mepis is heading.

I find myself appreciating "The Debian Way" more and more.
 
Old 06-02-2005, 05:38 AM   #28
crashmeister
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Just stick to Debian - it's the original anyway.

12 month d/l subscription 49.95? Not making money?Whats that supposed to be anyway?

Whatever - there's nothing wrong with making money but it might make sense to clearly state that you are a commercial distro with the intend to profit from your work to avoid confusion.
There are bunches of ppl that are happy customers of slack,suse and the likes.
Being directed from a .org to a .com website for the shopping part doesn't help there either.
Is mepis .com or .org or two different companies althogether?
 
Old 06-02-2005, 08:29 AM   #29
AdrianTM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lil_Deb
Quote:
Did I miss the answer to the orginal post?
Nope, and my bet is that there is not going to be a straight answer for a while. Mepis L.L.C. has implemented an unofficial policy of not directly answering any question that does not specifically address hardware compatibility issues.
I don't think that Warren reads this forum. It's hard to respond to a question if you don't read it, right?

Quote:
Originally posted by crashmeister
Just stick to Debian - it's the original anyway.

12 month d/l subscription 49.95? Not making money?Whats that supposed to be anyway?
You can get Mepis for FREE from their ftp server and from many other mirrors. That's more like a donation, if you like Mepis and decide to support its developement, nobody forces you to pay.

I paid a subscription. Let me explain why: I used both Mepis and Debian. Using Debian it took me hours (for some people it takes days) to make it behave like Mepis, so I thought Mepis save me "x" number of hours, I make "y" dollars an hour therefore Mepis saved me x*y dollars. Let me tell you that's much more than $49.95. If you experiment and you reinstall distro couple of time that time saving multiplies. On my computer Mepis installs in 12 minutes and if I choose to keep /home partition I have everything as I want in 12 minutes. I can't do that with Debian.

I'm not saying that Debian is bad, no, it's great, but Mepis is better and I've found it deserved my money (although as I said before nobody is required to pay for it).

Quote:
Originally posted by crashmeister
Being directed from a .org to a .com website for the shopping part doesn't help there either.
Is mepis .com or .org or two different companies althogether?
I think you are reading too much into that. Companies have different sites for different purposes, it's a cheap trick to imply that using .com and .org domains is something dishonest.

Last edited by AdrianTM; 06-02-2005 at 09:24 AM.
 
Old 06-02-2005, 10:07 AM   #30
aysiu
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This 2003 post by Warren is the closest I could find to a statement on the issue. It sounds as if he's willing to release the code if people ask nicely. I'm just saying that's what he says. I've never asked him for the code, really.

Some might argue that people shouldn't have to ask--that the code should just be posted somewhere. Maybe that is the case. Maybe. Still, one can hardly argue that Mepis is some money-stealing, greedy institution. All that subscription/download stuff is usually just donations. I haven't contributed one dime to Mepis yet. I'm thinking about it, but I certainly didn't have to in order to do a great and easy install of 3.3.1.

It's been the best distro I've tried (out of many).
 
  


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