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Old 11-08-2008, 06:27 PM   #1
Xolo
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Just installed Mandriva Free 2009, and...


NOTE:
This post has been updated/cleaned.

System specifications:
hp Compaq nc6120 business notebook
Intel Centrino (Pentium M) 1.7Ghz
2GB DDR system RAM
60GB IDE 5400rpm hard drive
Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG 802.11bg Wireless LAN
Broadcom Gigabit Wired LAN
Intel Mobile 915GM/PM/GMS/910GML graphics chipset, up to 128MB Shared RAM
Realtek AC'97 Audio Chipset
Texas Instruments chipset based Multi-card reader

This machine has been running Mandriva Free 2008.1 (Spring) for several months without real issues (apart from not being able to hibernate, did not get around to fixing that yet).
I had however the bright idea to upgrade myself to the rather good looking Mandriva Free 2009, and that was when the fun started.

I first attempted a graphical inline upgrade from 2008.1 to 2009; and this was performed quickly without error.
After looking around a little I decided that a 'clean' install might be more appropriate, and decided to format and start over.
So far so good, everything installed very quickly and at the end.. the shiny KDE4 appeared.

But then..



Now, I'm slowly getting used to the changes they made.
But there are some things that seem odd, or wrong.

This is the current list of problems, explanations below:
  1. A desktop kernel was installed after online update. [UNRESOLVED]
  2. Suspend-to-RAM works, slow, but works. Suspend-to-disk causes deadlock. [UNRESOLVED]
  3. Wireless configuration GUI is bugged [PARTLY RESOLVED]
  4. Where did Bluetooth go? [UNRESOLVED]
  5. KDE4 Panel/Desktop oddities [PARTLY RESOLVED]
  6. Information, Presentation, and audio control buttons don't work [UNRESOLVED]
  7. URPMI/aria2 system is broken after updating [PARTLY RESOLVED]


Bullet 1:
This machine is a notebook. During the DVD install I saw that it installed a notebook kernel and notebook optimization settings.
However, after updating itself, I see this:
Code:
[Xolo@BOFH1 ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.4-desktop-2mnb
Which to me, does not look like a laptop kernel. Why is this and if this is wrong, how do I change it without bricking the entire install?
Recalling Mandriva Free 2008.1 (Spring), this happened there too.
The laptop kernel is still in my boot list and I can boot it just fine, but I want to know why this desktop kernel is favoured over the laptop kernel+laptop tweaks?
Is this why suspend is always broken out of the box?

Bullet 2:
Suspend-to-RAM works, but is slow. Slow putting it into suspend, and slow getting it out of suspend. Heavy disk swap seems to happen also although the swap partition itself is not touched (as in swap usage by Linux)
Suspend-to-disk is mildly different, also slow entering suspend, slow to get out with a twist: the machine goes into deadlock instead of bringing back the session.
Both these issues were present in 2008.1 as well.
Kernel issue? (laptop versus desktop kernel)

Bullet 3:
Wireless works after letting Mandriva pull the required packages onto the machine over wired ethernet. hardware touchbutton still works.
Big gripe: You have to manually edit /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf as root because the GUI network manager in KDE will NOT leave the case of the wireless encryption key alone. The key will always be converted to lowercase and this DOES NOT WORK. So far all wireless access points I have tested with reject authentication because the keys are case sensitive.
This issue was also present in 2008.1 and was not fixed.

Bullet 4:
Where did Bluetooth go? I saw it install the packages, but it is nowhere to be found, and no status icon for the device is present in the system tray, nor can it be added (thus far).
Bluetooth worked out of the box in 2008.1 and could be toggled with the wireless touch button on the keyboard in parallel with the wireless radio.

Bullet 5:
The KDE desktop, the panel/taskbar and all it's glory.. lack all the usual configuration options you've come to expect in KDE3.
The GUI that lets you choose the size and position is broken/doesn't work in KDE4 (old package in a new release??), there are no 'hide' buttons on either side anymore, can't hide inactive icons in the systray anymore, limited ability to move the icons around, on the desktop you can't align icons by grid/date/type/whatever anymore, etc.
You get the idea. I see there is limited functionality in so called 'widgets', but i'm looking for a bit more flexibility like we had it in KDE3.
Who knows the magic incantation to bring that up again?
What I really miss is the 'Home' button on the KDE panel and on the desktop. or what's left of it anyway; KDE4 introduces 'Activities' which are actually multiple desktops within a single desktop.
The cashew nut at the top right and bottom of the screen are cute though, but harbour the same menu options you get when right-clicking anywhere else.
I realise KDE4 is in the 'child's shoes' phase as we call it here in Holland, but this is shipped in finished distros right now. What am I missing? because this is really painful.
As an aside, it seems that the panel in KDE4 is not entirely stable, and will lose icons randomly or experience icon corruption, or both.
Input appreciated here.

Bullet 6:
It appears the volume buttons on this notebook are no longer recognized when moving to Mandriva 2009, but they sure were in 2008.1, and featured a decent on-screen display to boot. Where did that go and how to get it back?

Bullet 7:
Sad to report that I can now confirm the URPMI/aria2 package managing and updating system present in Mandriva Free 2009 is BROKEN.
The auto update feature present in Mandriva never comes up, and you can't use the rpmdrake GUI to install/remove/update software either, even if you are root.
It will always report that the URPMI database is locked.
One search later one learns that the magic incantation to 'unlock' the database, is to open up a terminal and, as root, do the following:
Code:
[Xolo@BOFH1 ~]$ su
Password:
[root@BOFH1 ~]# rm -f /var/lib/urpmi/.LOCK
[root@BOFH1 ~]#
Which is really not a pretty solution, and only lasts up until the system decides it is time to try and auto update, at which point the database is locked up again and the updater fails silently without ever showing up on your system tray.
This happened after the URPMI system updated itself!


Moot point:
As it appears KDE3 applications will work under KDE4 if you install kde3-base:
I see that KDE4 still waits for backports of common programs such as K3b, hence it shining by absence from the default install..
What are the risks I face, other than wasting precious disk space, when I choose to install these missing apps, and get prompted to install KDE3.xx in order to satisfy dependancies?

Minor annoyances:
Just when I got used to Konqueror, it is ditched in favour of Dolphin.
Why? really, why. give me a really good set of reasons here.
Dolphin is nice and all, but it is large, clunky and limited compared to the Konqueror I got so used to using all these years.
Is there a way to reliably, permanently switch the default filemanager, if yes, how?

I cleaned up the part where I listed the lspci output, it was stretching the Linuxquestions page beyond a size my screen can handle (1024x768 pixels)


I am hoping that this thread can be at least generic enough to help other people in their encounter(s) with Mandriva 2009 and KDE4.

If there is anything you could help me with on the above I would appreciate it, thank you in advance for your time reading this, and good luck.

Last edited by Xolo; 11-12-2008 at 06:35 AM.
 
Old 11-08-2008, 07:30 PM   #2
Xolo
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Okay, things are starting to happen that I did not initiate myself:

The KDE main menu/kicker has fallen off the panel and can't get back up (It is GONE.) I'm effectively locked out of the entire menu tree that was available there.

Apparently KDE's own Screen Size & Rotate program causes severe screen flicker while it is 'busy' doing something (either during logon, or when you touch the icon, etc.)

Why is an old file browsing session in Dolphin now auto starting with KDE when I log in? I closed that hours ago.

Why is Firefox now auto starting with KDE when I log in? Same with the old Dolphin window, it was off, it should stay off.

I see icon corruption happening in the systray area, Klipper's icon has a black shadow beneath it and some of it's appearance is hiding behind other icons as well.

...And system sounds (KDE starting, app faults, things like that) don't seem to work or only very intermittendly. I just restarted X, logged in, and got about half a second of the login sound before it abruptly stopped.

Edit:
Correction: -Did- initiate myself. See reply to Klearview below.

Last edited by Xolo; 11-08-2008 at 07:51 PM. Reason: Hit enter too soon.
 
Old 11-08-2008, 07:34 PM   #3
klearview
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I won't know about Mandriva but I can answer some points on KDE4.

Panel - you CAN choose size, position and move buttons around. In fact it's way easier than on 3. Click on cashew button on the panel and experiment - you'll figure it out.

Home button - Mandriva's fault as they provide their own start menu. Switch to KDE's default 'kick-off' - unlock widgets, right-click on Start button, choose 'switch to kick off style'. Once done in Kick Off menu go to 'Computer', right-click on 'Home' and choose either 'add to desktop' or 'add to panel'.

Remember - to make any changes on desktop/panel (like the above) - widgets must be unlocked.

As far as displaying home is concerned - on the Desktop just add another folder view widget and set it to display your home - way better than a button. Displaying home (or other folder) on the panel - Mandriva is missing 'quickview access' widget present in Kubuntu.

Using K3B, Amarok, Kaffeine etc from KDE3 - no problem at all and you don't need the whole KDE3 just some libs.

Konqueror - to use it as default right-click on any folder, press 'edit file type' button and move Konqureror to the top. Done.

Having said that I'd give Dolphin a try - in fact I haven't even launched Konqueror in months now. Dolphin is a better file manager and I'm surprised how easy I admit it now when half a year ago I was absolutely furious about Konqueror being dumped.

Last edited by klearview; 11-08-2008 at 08:12 PM.
 
Old 11-08-2008, 08:16 PM   #4
Xolo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klearview View Post
I won't know about Mandriva but I can answer some points on KDE4.

Panel - you CAN choose size, position and move buttons around. In fact it's way easier than on 3. Click on cashew button on the panel and experiment - you'll figure it out.

Home button - Mandriva's fault as they provide their own start menu. Switch to KDE's default 'kick-off' - unlock widgets, right-click on Start button, choose 'switch to kick off style'. Once done in Kick Off menu go to 'Computer', right-click on 'Home' and choose either 'add to desktop' or 'add to panel'.

Remember - to make any changes on desktop/panel (like the above) - widgets must be unlocked.

As far as displaying home is concerned - on the Desktop just add another folder view widget and set it to display your home - way better than a button. Displaying home (or other folder) on the panel - Mandriva is missing 'quickview access' wideget present in Kubuntu.

Using K3B, Amarok, Kaffeine etc from KDE3 - no problem at all and you don't need the whole KDE3 just some libs.

Konqueror - to use it as default right-click on any folder, press 'edit file type' button and move Konqureror to the top. Done.

Having said that I'd give Dolphin a try - in fact I haven't even launched Konqueror in months now. Dolphin is a better file manager and I'm surprised how easy I admit it now when half a year ago I was absolutely furious about Konqueror being dumped.
Thank you for replying.
I must note that on my install it appears Widgets are unlocked by default.
I switched to the kick-off style panel just before you sent in your message, and even managed to post the results of that before you posted.. what timing
Agreed Dolphin does appear better, although perhaps 'better' is up to the user. I did go in and put back the editable location bar and the folder view, however. The default was too limited for my personal taste (I tend to type SMB addresses more often for example) and I may remove the preview panel as well later, it takes up too much space.

Anyway to summarise;
I switched to kick-off style panel and things started to look up a bit. I was however disappointed after rebooting to find the KDE menu had disappeared entirely, and so far I have not been able to put it back where it belongs yet. The configuration option for kick-off style and the previous style has disappeared with the icon. Very um.. interesting behaviour.
It hasn't been that bad since the old 'mouse goes on rampage' problem I still see on one of my older laptops, an IBM Thinkpad R31.
As for K3b, I found that it was actually part of the default install, but it surfaced when I changed to the kick-off menu style.
Now to repair the panel..

Edit:
Cashew nut, Add Widgets, Application Launcher.

Last edited by Xolo; 11-08-2008 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Found the missing panel!
 
Old 11-08-2008, 08:28 PM   #5
klearview
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I was getting problems with panel and widgets disappearing way back in 4.0 days - I'm surprised they are still popping up in Mandriva. KDE 4.1.3 came out 2 days ago - is it in Mandriva's repositories yet as hopefully it might fix some issues.

Icon corruption in notification area on the panel - I'm getting it too and have been ever since KDE4 came out. 2 solutions: 1. use default Oxygen desktop theme (Mandriva goes for Aya) instead - it seems to work better (I use Elegance); 2. Use OpenSUSE - the only distro where I did not notice any strange behaviour in KDE. Actually as far as integrating KDE4 goes OpenSUSE is so far ahead of the game compared to other major distros it makes me think about switching to it.
 
Old 11-08-2008, 08:42 PM   #6
klearview
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Couple more points:

Dolphin - if you have a default 'bread crumbs' location bar clicking on it anywhere AFTER the location will switch it immediately to editable. That way you get the best of both worlds. You can then revert to 'bread crumbs' by clicking yellow back arrow at the end of location bar.

Here is what I do with Dolphin - get rid of preview panel (the one on the right) - instead in settings I choose 'show tooltips'. I then tick "show 'move to' and 'copy to'" and add 'Up arrow' button to get more Konqueror-like behaviour.

Compared to Konqueror split view is now simplified but WAY MORE usable.

Samba shares - in places there is 'Network' menu where you'll find Samba shares - Dolphin browses through them fine.

Last edited by klearview; 11-08-2008 at 08:43 PM.
 
Old 11-10-2008, 03:11 AM   #7
Xolo
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I will try the other theme, but I am not about to switch distros over something that's (for now) beyond my ability to fix properly. That would be 'giving up', and I help nobody but myself with that. I'm here to kick the tires till it works!
I will also check if the repositories have been updated, who knows the update to KDE just might do it.

I did not notice any breadcrumb path in Dolphin at all, but i'll have a look again to see if I can enable that instead.
The 'default' view was limited to Forward/Back, a panel on left/right hand side with folder view dead center.
In Konqueror I was used to having that right side 'preview' panel inside the left panel, with a folder tree view above it. 'Places' as Dolphin calls it, was embedded in the left edge of the left panel as small buttons.
As for the Samba shares, I know browsing is fine, but they are mostly not detected/shown, even after authenticating. So I have to type, at least for now.
In fact, now that I am checking again, Dolphin is doing something really weird here. I just used browse, as you said it worked, and looked up one of my file servers and was asked to authenticate, so I do that.
The folder view remains empty, even if I refresh. Then I try typing a known location, and get this in the bottom status bar:
Code:
The location 'smb://domain%25255Cusername@servername\D$ is invalid.'
The part where it tells me '\D$' is invalid is right, in Linux we use forward slashes. However Dolphin did that by itself, same for the ascii-fied double colon sign between domain and username. Funny part here is that once the error disappears, the location I called previously suddenly shows up. Probably time related with regards to loading time rather than the error Dolphin showed about the path.

Last edited by Xolo; 11-10-2008 at 03:13 AM.
 
Old 11-10-2008, 03:35 AM   #8
Xolo
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I found out that the 'severe screen flicker' is actually caused by a KDE4 feature called 'Activities'.
You can add an 'Activity' when you left-click the cashew in the top right corner of your desktop, 'Zoom Out', and then go to the cashew again, and choose 'Add Activity' this time.
Notice that when you zoom out, you are in some sort of void zone where all you can do is add 'Activities'. Have yet to find out how to remove one of these Activities.
This kinda upsets the idea of what a 'desktop' is or should be. Because right now my Firefox window is hovering above the two 'activities' currently present in the void part, and the KDE panel at the bottom is still present as well. I just have a large white/blue checkered dead area below the two mini-desktops. Cashews in each too, has KDE gone nuts?

Edit:
After a full reboot the second 'desktop' is still there, but under the Cashew a new option appears: 'Remove this desktop'.

Last edited by Xolo; 11-10-2008 at 03:56 AM.
 
Old 11-10-2008, 04:33 AM   #9
Xolo
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Cleaning this post up because it was a duplicate of #1 ???

Last edited by Xolo; 11-12-2008 at 06:37 AM. Reason: Duplicated post??
 
Old 11-12-2008, 03:31 AM   #10
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I will be updating post #1 shortly to reflect current status.

Edit:
Cleanup finished.

Last edited by Xolo; 11-12-2008 at 06:37 AM.
 
Old 11-12-2008, 08:35 AM   #11
Xolo
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Okay, time to make choices.
I have been running Mandriva 2009 all this time while posting in this thread, using it throughout the day.

Apparently I am not the only one seeing issues, as some replies here and some threads over at http://forum.mandriva.com may show that the biggest gripe is usability and KDE4 at the moment.
There is a tiny hint made over in this thread on the Mandriva forum that for example the KDE4 folder view has an improvement pending for Mandriva 2009 Spring edition. I expect that there will be many more such examples.

More examples here from which I am lead to..
2009.0 Errata

Now as far as choices go;
Although I like staying up to date and upgrade before becoming unsupported, considering the fact I need to get on with my job and not waste too much time trying to fix something that's being worked on by developers already..
I think that until 2009 Spring is released I have to make a choice:
  1. Roll back to 2008.1 (Spring)
  2. Roll back to 2008.1 (Spring) and upgrade to 2009 so it keeps KDE3
  3. Reinstall 2009 from scratch with KDE3

I believe my best two choices may be between 1 and 3.
As it does not take very long to reinstall from scratch, I may just try option 3 first and see how that works out.

Last edited by Xolo; 11-12-2008 at 08:48 AM.
 
Old 11-13-2008, 10:14 AM   #12
Xolo
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UPDATE:

I have explored the three options I previously mentioned, and came to the following conclusions.

Rolling back to 2008.1 will eventually catch up with me, although I can deny the upgrade to 2009 and hide the notification, eventually I will be out of date. This I want to avoid, in my case (personal preference at play).

Roll back to 2008.1 and upgrade to 2009 so it keeps KDE3 - This works out, and is what I am currently using. See below for details.

Reinstall 2009 from scratch with KDE3, this did not work out so well. I ended up having login screen corruption and missing packages, dead buttons (the volume buttons, etc.) and other inconvenient problems.


To detail the rollback to 2008.1 with the upgrade to 2009:
  1. Clean install of 2008.1 (Format all partitions)
  2. Do not use installer offer to update packages
  3. Configure 1 user with password
  4. Reboot system
  5. Login, wait till auto updater shows up
  6. Let auto updater fetch current 2008.1 updates
  7. Reboot system
  8. Login, wait till auto updater shows up
  9. Choose updater option to upgrade to 2009 (The graphical inline upgrade)
  10. Wait! and when prompted, reboot
  11. Done

So I now have Mandriva 2009 with KDE3 instead of KDE4, my volume buttons work, volume OSD is back, Bluetooth works again, etc.

What still needs work:
Upgrading to 2009 caused KDE to switch from 'shade' to 'maximise' when double-clicking on a window title bar. I prefer shading, but I can't find where they are hiding the setting in KDE 3.5.10 just yet.. very strange. Theme related?
The 'Home' button was removed from the KDE panel. I put this back by copying the Home icon from the desktop.
The 'Firefox' button was removed from the KDE panel. I put this back via the usual way of right-click, Add Application to Panel.
Kerry Beagle was installed again, I removed this again.
Amarok shows two times in the KDE launcher? i'll have to see if one of them can be removed for cleanliness.

Will be back for more details.
 
Old 11-13-2008, 10:51 AM   #13
klearview
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Quote:
Upgrading to 2009 caused KDE to switch from 'shade' to 'maximise' when double-clicking on a window title bar. I prefer shading, but I can't find where they are hiding the setting in KDE 3.5.10 just yet.. very strange. Theme related?
I'm pretty sure it's not been changed in KDE4 and should be the same in KDE3: open any application and right-click on title bar, choose 'Configure window behaviour', then 'Actions', then in 'Title bar actions' choose 'Shade' in 'Title bar double-click'.
 
Old 11-13-2008, 11:13 AM   #14
Xolo
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That's where I was looking too, among places like the control center, desktop properties.
I didn't see it there but I will look again tomorrow, I left the machine at the office.. d'oh!
 
Old 11-14-2008, 03:48 AM   #15
Xolo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klearview View Post
I'm pretty sure it's not been changed in KDE4 and should be the same in KDE3: open any application and right-click on title bar, choose 'Configure window behaviour', then 'Actions', then in 'Title bar actions' choose 'Shade' in 'Title bar double-click'.
Okay, back at it. I have looked again, but alas there is no such option.
Below a screenshot of the options when right-clicking a title bar of Konqueror:

KDE 3.5.10 in Mandriva 2009 Upgrade

I see the same in KDE4.

Last edited by Xolo; 11-14-2008 at 03:51 AM.
 
  


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