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Old 05-30-2005, 01:01 AM   #91
Trio3b
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pitching in


Point taken.......

Not sure I'm organized enough yet to write a tutorial that:

1. is inclusive enough to cover all (or most) possible variations
2. teaches as it informs
3. does NOT overwhelm the newb while it is doing its job, but.............

I do take weekends to browse linux forums and look for those having trouble with dialup on linux. I did post rather profusely for a while about Kppp, serial modems and how to install internal PCI modems with Intel 536ep chipset.

Have been asked to setup a small office network and am currently busy with that. Am experiencing similar situation in that I spent weeks with all the networking "bibles" with no luck until someone "spoke english" and just had me type "sftp://192.168.0.1" into Konqueror. How hard was that? Well.........hard enough that it took several weeks to stumble across that info.

I will look into writing a tutorial when I get my s**t together.
Thanks
 
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Old 05-30-2005, 07:43 AM   #92
motub
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I hear that, but on the other hand, it doesn't have to be "perfect" out-of-the-box-- this is, after all, Linux . Something imperfect is often better than nothing at all.

But here's an idea for you: when you make extensive posts on a subject, save the text!!! I have a folder of text clipped out from my posts on complex subjects-- my URPMI post in this thread was a modified version of one of them, actually (which is lucky because the forum I originally wrote it for upgraded and had to delete all their old posts, so it's gone from there).

It saves you having to take the time to write something complex all over again, gives you a fast template in case you need to post it again, and a base for a web page, if you want-- it can just be "collected notes" or some such-- and last but not least, preserves the information in case the forum you originally posted to goes belly-up for whatever reason.

I know I'm kind of a believer in the idea of "deathless prose" (even when it's not, really), but still, it's even worth going back to any given forum and editing your post (without actually changing anything) so that you can copy the text with the UBB formatting and embedded links and paste it to text. Especially if you spent an hour writing it the first time. $DEITY knows, just the time spent makes it worth 'backing up'.

And it really makes it easier to help others, at least on the subjects that you know enough about to talk about a lot.

 
Old 05-31-2005, 01:29 AM   #93
Trio3b
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saving text

Yes, I have a file that I paste into posts.

Thanks
 
Old 06-21-2005, 04:18 PM   #94
setlec_seta
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errr iknow but i'm still a kind of noob but why i can't force an installation with rpm or urpmi on the Mandriva LE 2005 dvd??? it says in the ternimal "only used for instalation, updates, rmsource (...) could be forced."

is this a modification applied by mandriva or a product of the fusion MDK-conectiva distrib?
 
Old 06-21-2005, 05:02 PM   #95
motub
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Sorry, I don't get what you're saying. What exactly are you trying to force-install, what command are you using to do so, and what is "only used for installation, updates and the like"?

As far as I know, the 2005 release is not modified by the acquisition of Connectiva as yet; it's pretty much what 10.2 was going to be, just under a new name. The integration of Connectiva technology (and presumably now Lycoris technology as well), is not supposed to happen until the 2006 release.
 
Old 06-22-2005, 09:06 PM   #96
phoneix
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Quote:
Originally posted by motub
But you see, that's just my point (and why this is a pet peeve of mine; nothing to do with you personally).

A new Linux user migrating from Windows is advised to download and install Mandrake as the easiest to use version for someone such as him/herself. Fine. Mandrake installs, and all these helpful hints and notes pop up, but none of them mention RPMDrake (or provide an intial setup of outside repositories), so unless the user has perhaps read a couple of reviews of Mandrake, or gone exploring in the MCC, the user does not know this tool (much less urpmi) exists.

This is already "not good" (the user should have some indication of what tools they have available, especially when they're as important as urpmi/RPMDrake). S/He reads some general Linux introductory material on his/her own, and s/he discovers that *.rpm exists, and that s/he is supposed to use those type of files to install software because s/he is using an RPM distro. The user still knows nothing about any of the rpm tools that resolve dependencies, but may have heard of dependency hell during the course of this reading.

So the user goes trawling the Internet for the homepages of various software s/he's heard about and wants to install (and which is not on the Mandrake CD's-- such as WINE, for example). Now, me, I'm already p.o.'d on behalf of this user, because s/he is already doing more work than is necessary (and this extra work is more likely to lead to failure than success). So the user finds on the homepage some RPMs and a source tarball. The RPMs are for SuSE, RedHat and "generic" and the source tarball is... a source tarball. None of these seem to be quite "right", but the user wants to install the program and at this moment does not know of any other way to acquire or install software.

So of course s/he asks here about "rpms and tar.gzs". S/he doesn't know what else to ask, and no one has told him/her that s/he's asking the wrong question!

Even on a dedicated Mandrake forum, where (presumably) everyone inclined to answer has some familiarity with URPMI/RPMDrake, no one says a word, and continues to provide the standard instructions of rpm -i and ./configure make makeinstall.

And two days later this user is going to be back complaining of dependency hell (because s/he was not told that if you intend to use rpm you have to find and install all the dependencies yourself beforehand, which is annoying enough in itself), or complaining that s/he can't compile the source (because Mandrake puts its libs or other dependent files in a custom location not referenced by the ./configure or Makefile of the developer of the program, so they are not found, and naturally this user does not have a clue how to fix such a problem. When was the last time you saw a README or INSTALL file in a source tarball that contained specific editing instructions for Mandrake, as opposed to, say Debian?). Assuming they haven't already decided that "Linux is s**t" and gone back to Windows, where "at least you can understand how to install a program".
Get out of my head. You just summed up everything that i was thinking. HOWEVER, i am never using M$ as my primary OS, only for games. BUT my head is spinning about this installing stuff. I stumbled across your posts and its like an osais. THANK YOU for your input. It has helped me greatly and i am now learning more. My fustration is easing greatly.
 
Old 06-28-2005, 03:04 AM   #97
floppywhopper
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Just something to throw into all this
I dont believe this site has been mentioned

http://www.howtoforge.com/

if you are looking for a site to host your how-to
this is another worth looking at

Thanks to motub for your contribution
I have been frustrated by easyurpmi
because of the size of the download
being on dial-up
but will try again with those instructions for a smaller download

floppy
 
Old 07-18-2005, 08:55 PM   #98
ChillyWillie
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Just to add to floppywhopper's post, I discovered the linux documentation project in my early linux days and it was a goldmine of howto information. Admittedly, much of the documentation is easily dated, but nevertheless a good place to browse.

www.tldp.org

Happy hacking

-J
 
Old 07-22-2005, 03:38 PM   #99
frazelle09
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Another Three Cheers for Motub

Dear Sir:

THANK YOU! Have spent the last three days and over 8 hours trying to figure out how to locate and then download and install the most recent version of Postgresql for Mandriva. After finding out about URPMI from your How-To, was able to do it on the morning of the third day.
As you have noted, is there any reason for someone to have to go through this type of hassle? Would it be so much of a problem for Mandriva or whoever to make this automatic? Do they understand "automatic", as in "behind-the-scenes", just "let-me-get-on-with-my-work". If these distros of Linux are meant as Learning Linux the Hard Way, i.e. without proper courses, etc., then they should be advertised as such. i personally feel that sometimes there is a "well if you aren't willing to learn this, then i'm not going to help you" sort of attitude -- very condescending. i'm not a programmer and don't expect everyone to do what i do or to be like i am. We wouldn't have a functioning society if this were the case. i'm not even an Access programmer but need something fast as accessible in order to set up a simple db under Linux, but to have to learn not only Postgresql but to have to figure out a new operating system as well is like going back, for me anyway, some 20 years.
i guess i got off the track of my main issue. Sorry. Thanks again for understanding those of us who would like to switch as painlessly as possible from the "other" operating system and for taking the time and energy to do something about it.
 
Old 08-15-2005, 09:00 AM   #100
jtravnick
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OK this might be a dumb question but how does one know if they can use URPMI to get what they need or if they have to download a tar.gz file? For instance I still do not have flash installed on here yet since now I'm not sure if I was right in downloading the file or if I should use URPMI or RPMDRAKE. That and the instructions for using URPMI really are not to clear I went to the site picked some servers but down at the bottom of the page it says" to type this in" but does not say what to type in.

Jim
 
Old 08-15-2005, 09:15 AM   #101
motub
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Did you check the checkboxes next to the server repository group type before using the dropdown menu to choose a specific server from that repository group?

For example, if you want a mirror from the contrib group, you have to check the contrib checkbox, then select a server. Then, when you click the "Go to Step 3" button, the instructions for adding that contrib server will be displayed.
 
Old 08-15-2005, 09:34 AM   #102
jtravnick
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yes checked the boxes and picked a server near me this is what I getat step 3:

3) Type this in a console as root

If you get an error, please check that the mirror is accessible and not over it's connection limit.
Also, you might want to type urpmi.removemedia -a first, in order to reinitialize urpmi's setup.

The area that is shaded is blank I am asumming that that is where it is telling me what to type
 
Old 08-15-2005, 09:42 AM   #103
motub
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Which version and architecture, and which mirrors did you pick? I'd try to replicate your problem, but atm it works fine for me, when I pick mirrors for myself.
 
Old 08-15-2005, 10:27 AM   #104
jtravnick
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these are what I have filled out infact the site filled the first two out:
Mandriva Linux version: 2005
architecture: i586
Source contrib : USA Wisconsin (ftp:// mirror.cs.wisc.edu)
Source main : USA Wisconsin (ftp:// mirror.cs.wisc.edu)
Source updates : USA Wisconsin (ftp:// mirror.cs.wisc.edu)
Source jpackage : USA Wisconsin (ftp:// mirror.cs.wisc.edu)

Jim
 
Old 08-16-2005, 04:57 AM   #105
motub
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When I choose those mirrors, and then click go to step 3, I get the following displayed in the 'type this in a console as root' box:

Code:
urpmi.addmedia --update updates ftp://mirror.cs.wisc.edu/pub/mirrors.../main_updates/ with media_info/hdlist.cz
urpmi.addmedia main ftp://mirror.cs.wisc.edu/pub/mirrors...586/media/main with media_info/hdlist.cz
urpmi.addmedia contrib ftp://mirror.cs.wisc.edu/pub/mirrors.../media/contrib with media_info/hdlist.cz
urpmi.addmedia jpackage ftp://mirror.cs.wisc.edu/pub/mirrors...media/jpackage with media_info/hdlist.cz
Perhaps you have page caching or a proxy on, so the new page is not loading correctly?

But of course, you can use these settings as I've posted them and worry about it later .
 
  


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