What Would You Like to See at LQ?

jeremy · 01-02-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogugotw

How about this? A table with column 1 full of 'stuff you do in Windows' and columns 2 to n 'how to do it in...'
'Ubuntu x.y CLI', 'Ubuntu x.y GUI', 'Gentoo x.y in CLI', 'Gentoo x.y in GUI', etc.

It might also be helpful to understand which versions of Linux are related to each other, who's the actual parent version and who's a derivative and why it might matter.

The LQ Wiki would be perfect for something like this. http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/...re_Equivalents is an example, but there are many similar articles that I think could be extremely useful.

--jeremy

jeremy · 01-02-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XavierP

Thinking it over, I think that the Tutorials section could be reasonably closed down and moved over to the Wiki. The Tutorials all have a life expectancy - doing something one way in Slackware 9 is no longer relevant in newer versions and we are pretty dependent on the creator of the tutorial to realise this and to add in the changes. As we can see, this doesn't always happen - whether because they move on, change distros or just forget about it. Putting it in the wiki would make it far more dynamic and easy to maintain - a simple line to say it's no longer required since X.X version rather than a rewrite.

If the Wiki has a how-to section, they could all be reasonably shifted over - we would need some kind souls to go through and create links in the Tutorials and in the body of the wiki, but that's what happens anyway (as far as I can tell).

I think it's a great idea to add a proper howto/tutorials section to the wiki, but I still think there's a place on the main LQ site for edited official tutorials. Thoughts?

--jeremy

jeremy · 01-02-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternallygeek

Nevermind that request, I found that functionality in the second Main Menu bar at the right of the screen. I suppose I am just used to it being a link at the top of the forum index page.

It's also in the top nav - under "Quick Links".

--jeremy

jeremy · 01-02-2009, 10:12 AM

Thanks for all the feedback so far - keep it coming! If I've missed addressing an issue in a post up to this point, let me know.

--jeremy

XavierP · 01-02-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy

I think it's a great idea to add a proper howto/tutorials section to the wiki, but I still think there's a place on the main LQ site for edited official tutorials. Thoughts?

Even though I suggested it I'm not totally sold

The wiki is better for fast changing tutorials - especially where a change in distro version can negate the info. The recent changes to Slackware (in the last few versions) are a good example of this.

I think what I'm saying is that the tutorials tend to be more fixed in stone than the wiki equivalents and that may not be the best thing. If you were to search for a solution, find a current Tutorial and then realise that you are 3 versions ahead of the Tutorial you may abandon us as a resource because the page isn't relevant. If, on the other hand, you hit the wiki you would see a page that says:
Install <Program> on Ubuntu:
action one
action two
if on Intrepid - action 3a
if on Hoary - action 3b
and so on
action 4
action 5

Whereas the Tutorial will (in most cases) be stuck on an early version - which could be the difference between panicking about hand configuring config files and options and simply using udev.rules.

I think the Articles should always be a "main LQ" section, but the tutorials may be better served in the wiki.

Hopefully, in my particular ham-fisted way, this makes sense. If nothing else it may spark a discussion.

trickykid · 01-02-2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebuck

Hi,

Then stay there if you don't have anything constructive to say. You say that LQ Linux forums are arrogant. Maybe some participants are but not all. We do try to help others as much as we can. Your disdain for this site seems to overshadow any constructive criticism.

Apparently you don't look in the mirror enough.

Each to his own. Not every shoe fits everyone. That's why we have different style and sizes. The same with web sites, forums or whatever, some things just are not comfortable to some. Apparently your experience(s) here at LQ caused some undue harm or bias towards us here on LQ. Arrogance is rather broad brush stroke to paint everyone as. Superiority over there at 'linuxbasics.org'? I think some arrogance must be rubbing of somewhere!

Maybe your keywords or search keys were not properly input?

Your statement is mixing and confusing to everyone. Your not even logical but you are insulting.

Bells and whistles are not always the best to present material that will be informative, be it on a web site or a powerpoint presentation. You need to present information in manner that addresses the audience. Not everyone in the world can afford the bandwidth to show flash or whatever. Text is still a powerful transfer of pure information.

Now we're talking! You presume now a 'we' as you are being part of the problem here at 'LQ'. The compilation of a book is a good idea. But mixing a book and a knowledge base can be task that would be a very large endeavor. Possible but would be an ongoing and ever evolving project. I think to pass pablum or spoon feeding at the start is justified but sometime you must bite from the apple to get nourishment. Sure the TechSpeak, techno jargon can be confusing but we do have means to define via the web. To segregate the information would not really fully help all. So a few people who are too lazy to look up or find answers should be handled with kid gloves so as not to offend. We should all then provide every newbie all the accords to fulfill their desire to get their GNU/Linux Fix without some effort on the Newbie's part. I think some of that is true but in order to learn something one should perform an action too see the result of their action instead of following a cookbook. That way there is a learning expereince not a repetitive action.

Too close! Arrogant? There's that mirror thing again.

I don't take anything you said as a joke. But arrogance on your part and that you do have a perception problem. Be it here on LQ or even LinuxBasics. The format at LinuxBasics is vanilla as it should be for a world wide site. Another parallel that LQ leads with and some try too emulate.

Your blessing are noted but I don't place too much worth on them. If you find my statement insulting then so be it. Yours are not exactly sweet nor constructive!

The amount of times this user with only 2 posts mentioned linuxbasics.org, I think you're most likely wasting your time with a spam troll to spread the word about yet another Linux help site that seems to be in it's infancy.

Ron G · 01-02-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Webb

I agree in some cases but some of the blame can be put on the newbie for not admitting he does not understand what he is being ask to do.

I have seen the newbie asked to post the output of a command. The newbie will then come back with three or more posts of other solutions he has tried without saying anything about the command. He should be honest and reply that he gets a file not found or what do you mean terminal? This might help the old pro realize your expertise level.

I agree completely, and I always make the statement of my ignorance and the need to "keep it as simple as is possible" when I post a question, because I want the members to understand that I not well versed in the language of Linux, or computing in total for that matter, yet I still get replies of the nature that may as well be written in Latin for someone at my level. I am not singling out this forum, or any one in particular, just the feeling I get most times when I read or post on most forums, in general terms.
I enjoy reading the forums even if I am not currently having any kind of issues, just as a means of learning all I can. I probably use less of the total capabilities of any OS than most users, but I still like reading all the things that people find, and the remedies that are suggested. It is a world in and of it's self, and I find it fascinating.
My only reason for posting to this thread was to point out to the very knowledgeable members here, that not all of we newbies are new not just to Linux, but many of us are new to the realm of going inside of an operating system, and making changes to it, or even understanding what is being asked of us. I totally agree that all newbies should first post how comfortable, or uncomfortable they are with the system, or systems they are dealing with, and their level of understanding. And on the other side of the equation, the seasoned members should take in to consideration how they answer, and try to keep it as simple with as much explanation as they can for the less knowledgeable, and often unsure "newbie".

Ron

onebuck · 01-02-2009, 01:11 PM

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickykid

The amount of times this user with only 2 posts mentioned linuxbasics.org, I think you're most likely wasting your time with a spam troll to spread the word about yet another Linux help site that seems to be in it's infancy.

Your probably right about that. The post just hit me wrong. I know a lot of the help that goes on in the forums includes a lot of different personalities and that alone can be a issue for some.

I've had to address a lot of my communication issues while helping others.

rayburke · 01-02-2009, 01:52 PM

I would like to see a more direct root to post questions, as I am new
to linux I am finding it hard to post a question and (at what stage in the forum)
also how to read and receive any answers????????

ray

siawash · 01-02-2009, 02:43 PM

I remember when I first explored Slackware 12.0 about a year and a half ago. I was following the official slack book to the letter. After completion of the install, the reboot would return an anonymous message about Grub. At that stage I was not aware that Slack uses lilo as apposed to grub.

I must have posted up to ten messages pleading for help. I even offered money to the Slack experts but to no avail. Eventually someone was kind enough to advise to delete mbr from previous distro ( pclinux ). It was only my focus which preserved my perseverance to stay the course. I don't think many none techies will be so steadfast.

I mean, I am not looking for a free lunch...and certainly don't like being judged by my learning style either. I don't learn by text. I like being showed specific steps. Once I get it, much living driving, I need to be shown once.

This idea that assumes all newbies have to be bookish nerds only takes a very small fraction of the world at large into account. Some folks just want to use Linux to get a job done, not IT technicians.

Actually, to learn by text does not always guarantee answers, you have to be good at linear research too. I have a friend who has very limited IT experience. Yet when I asked her to research something for me, found the exact site I had struggled for months to find. That's just a learning style, rather than her actual kills or desire to learn IT, even human worth...deserving of getting answers...!!!

Another example of a bad case of chasing my tail trying update and restore Thunderbird mail to another machine

http://email.about.com/od/mozillathu...ackup_prof.htm

http://email.about.com/od/mozillathu...store_prof.htm

Now, that website is fairly respectable. Yet it dumbfounded me. I did everything it said to the last letter, but to no avail...creating profile

thunderbird -createprofiles ( from console 0

Just before giving up i decided tying out copying the contents of the "mozilla" folder ( separate to the thunderbird folder ), to the same folder on the destination machine. Eureka!!! It not only restored my mail folders but also my firefox bookmarks.

In retrospect I recon that tutorial has to be version specific. Only way I can explain it not working.

It's not enough to be knowledgable in order to impart knowledge. You have to also be a teacher, and a humble one at that.

Not all Linux enthusiasts have or want to have the skills of an IT technician. They want to learn to get a job done minus the condescension.

bkorb · 01-02-2009, 04:00 PM

How about Google searching of the threads? I just queried "geforce 9400" in the hardware forum. It yielded two threads. Neither of which related to the geforce 9400. Not very good.

billymayday · 01-02-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy

1) The minimum was 8; I've lowered it to 3.

2) "Fedora 10" or FC10 would both work. That being said one of the improvements on the TODO for early this year is completely ripping out the stock FULLTEXT search and replacing it with something much better (and based on an Open Source product to boot).

--jeremy

Thanks and

great!

RadMan · 01-02-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Webb

It seems there are a lot of real linux newbies becoming members as desktop GUI users. It appears to be the first time that they have seen or heard of linux.

I would like to see a section devoted to a tutorial that explains how to use terminal, the package manager, installation, etc, and maybe the use of some of the basic commands.

I know if you search hard, this is all covered here in the forums or some where else. I believe a lot of newbies loose patience with being told to search for every move.

I hate the thought of loosing one linux user because he stumbled coming out of the gate. Remember not all of us are ever going to become experts.

Completely concur. A "basics of Linux for GUI (M$ generally) users would be phenomenal.

Thanks for all you do to keep this up and running...

XavierP · 01-02-2009, 04:42 PM

To anyone asking for particular tutorials, the field is wide open. All of our articles and tutorials are member submitted so if anyone fancies putting one (or more) together to enhance their own learning, feel free. Just remember though, you have to first define what "the basics" are - there are a huge number of commands that I have never personally used and can't foresee ever needing to. There are a further set of commands that I have only needed to use when researching an answer for someone - so the basics to me may be too basic for someone else....

AGer · 01-02-2009, 07:03 PM

Add title to the Quick Reply section. Posts with a title look better but going advanced is not worth it.

Separate posts and Quick Reply. In a thread like this it would be very convenient if what is input in Quick Reply persisted when going to another page of posts.

Create a PDF, or at least something readable from the beginning to the end, explaining the technical part of the site, and make it easy to find. For example, how a newbie should know that Shift-click on a poster's nick opens a menu full of goodies?

Disable items in the above mentioned menu that do not lead anywhere, like a blog when there is no blog yet.

Follow Shabakthana's advice when following PaulSaenz'es advice or something similar. BTW, I checked right now and did not see lots of truly newbie questions. It looks like the newbie problem is exaggerated.

I support the idea to tag questions as solved - pending. I would also add a difficulty level. If I feel that a question is simple, I can mark it as such so that gurus do not bother looking. It should be possible to adjust the difficulty level a bit with every post so that if each and every commenter thinks it is hard it would be marked as hard after some time.