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Old 04-23-2013, 11:26 AM   #16
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaemon View Post
Do you agree?
No...

The current system works and TobiSGD and 273 already explained it very well. There are old thread which will still be relevant today for whatever reason, there will be threads which could be considered obsolete by some, but certainly not to everyone. There will be many, fitting both categories, with inaccurate information, references to obsolete ways of doing things, broken links, errors, etc.

Your first approach is unworkable as it would mean that anyone could resurrect any thread for any reason - in fact there's probably nothing stopping anyone from doing that at the present time. Many of the problems with resurrecting threads were in your linked example. i.e. someone in 2009 replying to a post made in 2002 - where the original poster may no longer be active here and correcting for the sake of correcting on a forum like this is utterly pointless.

You also see many threads where there is a generic error message which could related to 1000s of possible scenarios and someone comes along and bumps that thread years later with "I have the same problem". Except they don't have the same problem... It's a fact of life on messageboards.

Someone coming along to an unsolved thread from a few years back with a real solution or some new information is a different issue altogether. This is why leaving old threads unlocked/undeleted is important.

Your second approach isn't feasible because perhaps people want to find those old threads with google or another search engine? There is no provision here for separating the misleading old threads from the good old threads - just a cut off date.

The third approach also does not differentiate between the "good" old threads and the "bad" old threads and would in my opinion be utterly reckless.

It's simple really: Whether a thread is any good is down to the discretion and the individual requirements of the reader.

If google leads you to "howto: jump off a cliff" you have the option to ignore it and go elsewhere.

Last edited by cynwulf; 04-23-2013 at 11:32 AM.
 
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:42 AM   #17
phaemon
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I'm afraid the current system isn't feasible because it "does not differentiate between the "good" old threads and the "bad" old threads."

Also, it's "unworkable as it would mean that anyone could resurrect any thread for any reason"

Seriously, it doesn't make sense to argue that a system is infeasible for reasons that apply equally well to the existing system!

And is that really the best linuxquestions can hope to aspire to? "Much of our stuff is, frankly, plain wrong and if you don't like it, go elsewhere"?

I'm trying to think of better ways of doing things with a situation that I've personally found frustrating; negativity and a "can't do" attitude don't really help much.
 
Old 04-23-2013, 11:55 AM   #18
TobiSGD
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It is quite simple: If you find a thread with wrong or misleading behavior you are free to correct that. If you come up with a relevant post that is OK with anyone here. Necroposting for no reason (that happens also) is not appreciated, but will usually not lead to the closing of a thread, the thread you found there was an exception. Closing of threads usually only happen if they are duplicates (to keep the discussion of the topic in one place) or if there are egregious violations of the forum rules that can not be handled otherwise (like ongoing flame-wars).

Closing old threads with an arbitrary age is not a viable option, the same is true for deleting threads. Sorting them out in good/bad/still relevant/not relevant anymore is simply not a viable option on a forum as large as LQ (in the time between April 1st and April 17th this year there were 1,447 new threads alone, the number of threads that had to be checked would be increasing very fast to a number that can not be handled anymore by a whole bunch of people).

Last edited by TobiSGD; 04-23-2013 at 11:57 AM.
 
Old 04-23-2013, 11:55 AM   #19
273
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Are you volunteering to check all threads for validity regularly to find out when they become "out of date"?
The forum works fine as it is -- it just requires some common sense.
As I mentioned for the crypto thread in particular for some things out of date information is certainly not to be trusted and anyone who is serious about crypto ought to know that anyhow and discard old information. But how would a moderator know to lock that thread and not one of the other few thousand without reading them all?
Can you really not tell when a five year old thread is likely to be out of date for your distro?
Would you use a ten year old service manual for your model of car expecting it to be exactly the same, or would you check out whether things may have changed? If not, does that mean the ten year old manual is useless?

Last edited by 273; 04-23-2013 at 11:57 AM.
 
Old 04-23-2013, 12:10 PM   #20
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaemon View Post
I'm afraid the current system isn't feasible because it "does not differentiate between the "good" old threads and the "bad" old threads."
Yes it does - you the user differentiates and if there is a doubt the thread is reported and the staff will differentiate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phaemon View Post
Also, it's "unworkable as it would mean that anyone could resurrect any thread for any reason"
Under the current system anyone can resurrect threads but the resurrection may be short lived if they had no good reason for doing so - this is every different from your proposal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phaemon View Post
And is that really the best linuxquestions can hope to aspire to? "Much of your stuff is, frankly, plain wrong and if you don't like it, go elsewhere"?
Fixed it for you.

Yes, that's often how it works on messageboards. I've seldom had to "go elsewhere" but there have been a few times where I've had to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phaemon View Post
I'm trying to think of better ways of doing things with a situation that I've personally found frustrating; negativity and a "can't do" attitude don't really help much.
It's not a "can't do" attitude it's the result of weighing up of the pros and cons. The current system gives the user the choice to work out for themselves if a thread is valuable or not - you prefer to remove that choice apparently in order to protect a certain portion of users from blindly following the inaccurate instructions in some old threads.
 
Old 04-23-2013, 12:23 PM   #21
phaemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caravel View Post
It's not a "can't do" attitude it's the result of weighing up of the pros and cons. The current system gives the user the choice to work out for themselves if a thread is valuable or not - you prefer to remove that choice apparently in order to protect a certain portion of users from blindly following the inaccurate instructions in some old threads.
Yes it is a "can't do" attitude. That you can't expire threads or delist them has been claimed several times to be infeasible or "not viable" without any explanation or reasoning. Where was the discussion that led to this decision? If you'd just link me to that thread, I can read the explanations for myself.

As for removing choice; no I'd just like linuxquestions to stop polluting search results with outdated information. I think it makes the site look bad. But you clearly don't, so fine. Fair enough.

And since your answer to "go elsewhere?" is "Yes, that's often how it works on messageboards." I guess I should probably just head to serverfault instead.
 
Old 04-23-2013, 12:27 PM   #22
phaemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
Are you volunteering to check all threads for validity regularly to find out when they become "out of date"?
Nope, were it up to me I'd just expire all threads over 6 months old unless they were marked as exceptional. They would only be available to view, and could only be searched from the site rather than search engines.

That's just me, though.

Last edited by phaemon; 04-23-2013 at 12:28 PM. Reason: fix spelling
 
Old 04-23-2013, 12:29 PM   #23
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaemon View Post
Yes it is a "can't do" attitude. That you can't expire threads or delist them has been claimed several times to be infeasible or "not viable" without any explanation or reasoning.
It's quite simple to understand. There is no way of knowing whether a thread is out of date or not without reading it and it is physically impossible for somebody to read every single thread every single day to determine whether it has become out of date for everyone in the world or not.
So, how is it possible to expire or delist threads? Are you volunteering to read them all?
 
Old 04-23-2013, 12:31 PM   #24
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaemon View Post
Nope, were it up to me I'd just expire all threads over 6 months old unless they were marked as exceptional. They would only be available to view, and could only be searched from the site rather than search engines.

That's just me, though.
That's ludicrous. You would hide thousands of useful threads from search engines just in case somebody comes along and blindly follows some out of date advice?
 
Old 04-23-2013, 12:35 PM   #25
phaemon
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I'd hide thousands of useful threads from search engines in order to hide tens of thousands of useless threads from search engines. There's no use in having thousands of useful threads if no-one can can find them among all the dross.
 
Old 04-23-2013, 12:40 PM   #26
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaemon View Post
I'd hide thousands of useful threads from search engines in order to hide tens of thousands of useless threads from search engines. There's no use in having thousands of useful threads if no-one can can find them among all the dross.
I think you need learn how to use a search engine better and to critically assess information quicker.
There's a heck of a lot of useful information on this, and many other sites, going back five years or more and personally I like to have that at my fingertips using google.
 
Old 04-23-2013, 12:40 PM   #27
TobiSGD
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I have already explained to you why it is not viable. It is a decision of Jeremy not delete threads without a very good reason, there is no discussion needed for that. I also already have told you the amount of new threads we see here over 17 days alone, so that you can see that proof-reading them all and sorting them out is simply not possible. If we would go with your suggestion to simply not make threads older than 6 months searchable via Google we would also rule out threads about Ubuntu 12.04 or Mint 13, LTS versions of those distributions that are still relevant until 2017. People that do not know LQ already will not find solutions of their problems if they only exist on LQ, but are not searchable with their preferred search engine.

So actually your suggestion would lowering the value of helpfulness of LQ, instead of increasing it.

I personally think that the pros of having older threads available (also using generic search engines) outweigh the cons by far, but in the end that decision is not up to me or the members, it is up to Jeremy.
 
Old 04-23-2013, 12:52 PM   #28
phaemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
I think you need learn how to use a search engine better and to critically assess information quicker.
Yeah....sure, kid.

Quote:
There's a heck of a lot of useful information on this, and many other sites, going back five years or more and personally I like to have that at my fingertips using google.
And I'm not convinced. If it was that useful, it would be repeated or updated.
 
Old 04-23-2013, 12:53 PM   #29
phaemon
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But I'll leave it here. If you're all convinced the current system is the best possible, there hardly seems any point in this discussion.
 
Old 04-23-2013, 02:15 PM   #30
cynwulf
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It's not the "best possible" but it's better than archiving, deleting or locking "old" threads. I agree that some old threads should be bumped/updated if there is something relevant or new to add. I do not agree with the bumping of your linked example nor do I think it's a good example of a thread being corrected - but also I don't agree with locking such threads as a matter of course to prevent that kind of thing. Hence my opinion is "leave it" and deal with it "case by case" which is essentially what they're doing now? It has to be dealt with in this manner as it's very much dependent on the subject, distro, etc as to when a thread can be considered "old".
 
  


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